The Natural Man
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All of your points are working on the assumption that the ' natural man ' is unsaved . Which is false . No one is preaching like this " ok you natural men ,let me tell you the Gospel . Jesus died for the sins of all natural men ( elected natural men to be saved ,according to Augustine and Calvin )
God has commanded all natural men everywhere to repent . "
God has commanded all natural men everywhere to repent . "
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1 cor 3:1
King James Bible
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
I don't know if carnal means totally without belief or what.
Was there a scripture that says that?
I know, but the principle still applied. He suffered for not believing.
King James Bible
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
I don't know if carnal means totally without belief or what.
Was there a scripture that says that?
I know, but the principle still applied. He suffered for not believing.
Do you think Paul is speaking to these believers as unbelievers ? " alright mate ,fancy a pint later " . ? No he can only speak to them as of the ' milk ' rather than the meat .
as parrelled in Hebrews 5
11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12¶For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil
as parrelled in Hebrews 5
11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12¶For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil
By all means. WE are born (again), are babes, are children, are young men and end as mature men. It takes a lifetime. But some mature later, and some need fiery trials, and some need severe chastisement - just like life. And the Corinthians did not have the advantage of 1,500 years of the Word and Morals of God like Israel. They came from a background of sensuality - as all pagans do. One can sympathize a bit with them.
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I think that 1st Corinthians 15:44 shows that a man is natural until death, irrespective of his standing with God. Paul was born of the womb and thus "natural" till death. But he was not carnal. The grammar of Romans 8:12-14 makes clear that a Christian could be carnal:
12 "Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."
The Greek word for "sons" in verse 14 refers to a mature man who can INHERIT. It is contrasted with "children" in verse 16. There the Greek only indicates "offspring" who are heirs by birth, but may not inherit.
12 "Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."
The Greek word for "sons" in verse 14 refers to a mature man who can INHERIT. It is contrasted with "children" in verse 16. There the Greek only indicates "offspring" who are heirs by birth, but may not inherit.
I've always interpreted those verses to mean that a natural man (unsaved) does not receive or understand the things of the Spirit of God because he hasn't yet received Christ as Savior and thus hasn't received the Holy Spirit.
Once a person becomes a believer and has the indwelling of the Spirit, certain truths will be revealed and said person will be able to understand and discern them.
Once a person becomes a believer and has the indwelling of the Spirit, certain truths will be revealed and said person will be able to understand and discern them.
1 Cor 15:44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Interesting.....just as a seed is sown in the ground and it has to die in order to produce a plant, our bodies are buried (sown) when they die and they are raised up a spiritual body.
What it all means I don't know. Oh, the many wonderous works of God!
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Interesting.....just as a seed is sown in the ground and it has to die in order to produce a plant, our bodies are buried (sown) when they die and they are raised up a spiritual body.
What it all means I don't know. Oh, the many wonderous works of God!
How do we reconcile the gospel of John with the perception of this thread that the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit? John says that Light is come into the world and it lights every man in the world. Jesus speaks of men being confronted by the light and some turning back while some come to the light.
I agree that the natural man cannot understand many of the things the Spirit teaches but the natural man can understand the gospel and come to the point of decision as to the fact he must be saved or remain forever lost.
1 Corinthians does not exist in a vacuum. Lost sinners do not come to Christ with a PhD in Theology. They come to Christ with a PhD in sin. Gods grace intercedes or all men perish.
God is indeed sovereign in salvation but God does call every man to repentance.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I agree that the natural man cannot understand many of the things the Spirit teaches but the natural man can understand the gospel and come to the point of decision as to the fact he must be saved or remain forever lost.
1 Corinthians does not exist in a vacuum. Lost sinners do not come to Christ with a PhD in Theology. They come to Christ with a PhD in sin. Gods grace intercedes or all men perish.
God is indeed sovereign in salvation but God does call every man to repentance.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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