When are we saved ?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
113
That is what the Greek means ' change of mind '
it also means to turn from
I dont believe there is a sin that Jesus didnt die for .
my only correction of the word blasphemo: it was not a Greek word but a Latin word.
check out blasphemo, blasphemy.
If you just confess without the turning from, there is no forgiveness of sin.....so full repentance involves confession AND turning way.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins
sinning willfully = continuing in sin by not turning from it receiving truth = conviction by the Spirit no longer = atoned for
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
it also means to turn from


my only correction of the word blasphemo: it was not a Greek word but a Latin word.
check out blasphemo, blasphemy.
If you just confess without the turning from, there is no forgiveness of sin.....so full repentance involves confession AND turning way.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins
sinning willfully = continuing in sin by not turning from it receiving truth = conviction by the Spirit no longer = atoned for
That would be salvation by works . Which is futile . Jesus saves through faith .
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
it also means to turn from


my only correction of the word blasphemo: it was not a Greek word but a Latin word.
check out blasphemo, blasphemy.
If you just confess without the turning from, there is no forgiveness of sin.....so full repentance involves confession AND turning way.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins
sinning willfully = continuing in sin by not turning from it receiving truth = conviction by the Spirit no longer = atoned for
To turn from is an added defenition, no Greek would have translated it that way
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
it also means to turn from


my only correction of the word blasphemo: it was not a Greek word but a Latin word.
check out blasphemo, blasphemy.
If you just confess without the turning from, there is no forgiveness of sin.....so full repentance involves confession AND turning way.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins
sinning willfully = continuing in sin by not turning from it receiving truth = conviction by the Spirit no longer = atoned for
It also says in Hebrews that Jesus sacrifice was once for all . The Atonement was not a instalment scheme . He reconciled the whole world . He paid for the sins of the whole world . Are you saying once were saved ,all of a sudden our sins need more payment after ?
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
113
That would be salvation by works . Which is futile . Jesus saves through faith .
Here is God's plan of salvation: Eph 1: 4-11

4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. 5 In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

God has caused us to be born again 1 Peter 3
Jesus said you MUST be born again John 3:7

Personally I have NO problem with God having sovereignty over my life... .for in my natural state (that of a corpse Eph 2:1)
like Zechariah, I was snatched like a brand from the fire. Soli Deo gloria
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
Here is God's plan of salvation: Eph 1: 4-11

4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. 5 In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

God has caused us to be born again 1 Peter 3
Jesus said you MUST be born again John 3:7

Personally I have NO problem with God having sovereignty over my life... .for in my natural state (that of a corpse Eph 2:1)
like Zechariah, I was snatched like a brand from the fire. Soli Deo gloria
You might want to join the 1 peter thread 😀
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
Here is God's plan of salvation: Eph 1: 4-11

4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. 5 In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

God has caused us to be born again 1 Peter 3
Jesus said you MUST be born again John 3:7

Personally I have NO problem with God having sovereignty over my life... .for in my natural state (that of a corpse Eph 2:1)
like Zechariah, I was snatched like a brand from the fire. Soli Deo gloria
When s the adoption?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
it also means to turn from


my only correction of the word blasphemo: it was not a Greek word but a Latin word.
check out blasphemo, blasphemy.
If you just confess without the turning from, there is no forgiveness of sin.....so full repentance involves confession AND turning way.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins
sinning willfully = continuing in sin by not turning from it receiving truth = conviction by the Spirit no longer = atoned for
If you hold to OSAS why the above ?
 
L

lenna

Guest
The op is on an anti calvinist rampage, that’s the issue, a group of them seem to be bent on defeating it, as if they could
right

he's been occupied with that since his arrival

but it's his other renderings, interpretations or whatever you want to call them, that are less than desirable IMO
 
L

lenna

Guest
There are several right here on this page. They are not hiding it. I am only concerned about Hypercalvinism (aka TULIP).

hard to miss of course

but I disagree with the op as well

it's like dodging shrapnel :eek:
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,285
1,183
113
This is quite a remarkable claim . What if Total inability from birth were not true , how would it change what you believe?
It does not matter, because the inspired scriptures will never change. Malachi 3:6, For I am the Lord, I change not, therefore ye sons of Jacob/Israel (God's elect) are not consumed.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,285
1,183
113
It was in several different ways.

Most of it, before I was a believer, was conviction of sin. I'd feel horrible and rejected.

Some of it, was the voice of silence, I don't really know how to word it. I think this is what is referred in the Bible as "the small still voice". You probably experienced it yourself, most people do they just don't know what it is. Usually it happened when I was in nature and it happened since childhood. I would just have a sense of great peace and feel like one with the mountains and the sky and the trees and sometimes when I played with my toys or drawing as a child or playing with the mud, I'd have a lot of peace and feel like the moment lasts forever.

Some of it was crazy "coincidences". I found about a dozen of lost crosses (jewelry) since I was a very small child (on the street, in the grass, at school, or just about anywhere) before I became a believer. I don't know anyone who had found so many or even close. I believe God arranged it to keep directing my attention to Him.

I had a dream referencing Biblical details back as the unbeliever, when I haven't been exposed to the Bible. (I wrote it down into my diary because it was puzzling as to what it meant - I only learned later when I started reading the Bible as a believer). I testified of this experience in detail later to agnostics, and they admitted, that would've been sufficient for them to be converted if it happened to them. But then I'd tell them, see how God didn't allow me either to know the proof beforehand, He only revealed it after He was unconditionally trusted. We must come to God by faith. I think double slit experiment attests to this scientifically, even. They confirmed in the lab that one as merely an observer, the presence of observing and the act of looking no matter how unbiased one was, affects how the observed particles will behave. I think one looking for God as in trying to observe Him under a microscope, to find empirical proof, will never find God, and that's simply how God arranged the universe.

But when I became a believer, a lot more came (and please forgive me now that I'll hold some back but this forum can get very irreverent and filthy, so that's why).

It's not hard to discern God's voice because it's very different from how our own mind thinks. I regret that there is not more conversation on this topic among us, I googled and asked many questions too until with experience and the Bible and testimonies of some other Christians I came to answers and also guarding myself from counterfeit spiritual experiences. Our own mind chatter isn't God's voice, but while His voice does reach our mind it's coming through the spirit.

His voice comes as spiritual perceptions, for lack of better term. Sometimes it is so strong that you can make the words out, sometimes you will find these words somewhere in the Bible later but not always, but it will be the same Spirit and not contradicting the Bible teaching. When these perceptions are of visual nature people call them visions - this is different than just "imagining things", it's different than "seeing things", it's a spiritual perception and "downloaded" into the spirit - BAM! Some rare people heard God audibly and then it will be as described in the Bible, like thundering or roaring of many waters - God does not change. Sometimes you can't word what God is telling you, but you understand a vastness reaching the depth of your soul ("deep calleth unto deep")... it's as if your mind isn't working when you try to describe it... Sometimes God brings up a verse to your mind and you just find a new depth in it, it's like you ate His Words (like Jeremiah). But one cannot confuse it with your own mind because the thoughts of His mind are so different.
I have never heard audible voices, but a lot of my prayers have been answered through scriptures by the revelation of the Holy Spirit. And sometimes by God inserting events in my life that have changed my direction in life, that I would not have chosen by my own thinking.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
I have never heard audible voices, but a lot of my prayers have been answered through scriptures by the revelation of the Holy Spirit. And sometimes by God inserting events in my life that have changed my direction in life, that I would not have chosen by my own thinking.
Yep God definitely loves bringing up Scripture. It's how He speaks to me most commonly too.

I was giving examples not only from my experience, but also experiences of various people I talked to and kind of making conclusion what all of this had in common, wrapping up all my research about "hearing God" and how it's supposed to look like and how do we know it's not the counterfeit or our own mind. And all people who heard God audibly that I know of, heard Him the exact same: the voice of roaring, like thunder or many waters.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,285
1,183
113
It also says in Hebrews that Jesus sacrifice was once for all . The Atonement was not a instalment scheme . He reconciled the whole world . He paid for the sins of the whole world . Are you saying once were saved ,all of a sudden our sins need more payment after ?
Christ's death on the cross paid for all of the sins of those that God gave him, and he will not lose any of them, After the atonement, God looks upon those that Christ died for, as holy and without blame. He also calls them kings and priests.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,696
113
hard to miss of course

but I disagree with the op as well

it's like dodging shrapnel :eek:
I have decided that they may make oyster stew out of me if they want to. I just want to point out why I cannot agree with some of the ideas that are being thrown around in here. If I have come across as being militant, please forgive. I agree 100% that He will never leave us or forsake us, but I also believe the Bible warns against apostacy. To say that God forsook apostates is not being truthful about what really happened.
 
L

lenna

Guest
I have decided that they may make oyster stew out of me if they want to. I just want to point out why I cannot agree with some of the ideas that are being thrown around in here. If I have come across as being militant, please forgive. I agree 100% that He will never leave us or forsake us, but I also believe the Bible warns against apostacy. To say that God forsook apostates is not being truthful about what really happened.
I don't find you militant. nothing wrong here