When are we saved ?
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It refers to God's elect. We did not exist before the foundation of the world, but by God's foreknowledge, he knew every human being by name. God choose his elect in a covenant relationship within the Godhead, and predetermined to adopt them, paying for them (their sins) through the sacrifice of his Son. The final phase of the adoption will be when Christ will come back and take them home to heaven.
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We must remember that "the kingdom of God" has reference to the church, and not eternal heaven. The church is referenced by many names in the scriptures, such as; Zion, the church of God, the church of Christ, the new Jerusalem, the church in the wilderness, the bride of Christ, the Israel, whose name is Jacob, and more.
There are some sinners that are not accepted into the membership of the church, that will be accepted into eternal heaven, due to church discipline.
Putting your hand to the plough, and looking back, applies to the kingdom of God (the church) and not eternal heaven, so once you are saved, eternally, you are always saved eternally.
There are some sinners that are not accepted into the membership of the church, that will be accepted into eternal heaven, due to church discipline.
Putting your hand to the plough, and looking back, applies to the kingdom of God (the church) and not eternal heaven, so once you are saved, eternally, you are always saved eternally.
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Salvation, according to Strong's concordance, means "a deliverance". We are delivered eternally, and the regenerated person is delivered (not eternally) many times as he sojourns here in this world.
If we interpret every salvation scripture as an eternal deliverance, it would tend to indicate that we are eternally delivered by our good works.
Rom 10, Paul's prayer to God for "Israel" (not the nation of Israel, because all Israel is not of Israel), God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called "Israel". which represents God's elect. The men of "Israel" that Paul was praying for, had "a zeal of God" (which indicates that they were regenerated) but they were ignorant of the knowledge God's righteousness.
When we are first reborn,with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we are babes in Christ, feeding upon the milk of the word, and as we are taught about spiritual things, we gradually grow into maturity (the knowledge of God's righteousness).
Isaiah 28:9-10, Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept is upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little.
Verse 9 of Romans; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved (delivered from a lack of the knowledge of God's righteousness).
Many of God's regenerated children, today, are still existing on the milk of the word, trusting in their good works of the old law to deliver them eternally.
Believing is a product of regeneration, not the cause of it. 2 Tim 2:13, For if they believe not, yet he (Jesus) abideth faithful, he cannot deny himself. The elect were chosen "in Christ" before the foundation of the world, and placed "in Christ" at the cross to pay for their sins. The regenerated are "in him", and he is "in us".
"Saved" in Romans 1, is a deliverance that the regenerate receives, here in time, when they come unto a knowledge of the righteousness of God.
Failure to distinguish the difference in the salvation (deliverance) scriptures, will result in believing in a false doctrine.
If we interpret every salvation scripture as an eternal deliverance, it would tend to indicate that we are eternally delivered by our good works.
Rom 10, Paul's prayer to God for "Israel" (not the nation of Israel, because all Israel is not of Israel), God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called "Israel". which represents God's elect. The men of "Israel" that Paul was praying for, had "a zeal of God" (which indicates that they were regenerated) but they were ignorant of the knowledge God's righteousness.
When we are first reborn,with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we are babes in Christ, feeding upon the milk of the word, and as we are taught about spiritual things, we gradually grow into maturity (the knowledge of God's righteousness).
Isaiah 28:9-10, Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept is upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little.
Verse 9 of Romans; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved (delivered from a lack of the knowledge of God's righteousness).
Many of God's regenerated children, today, are still existing on the milk of the word, trusting in their good works of the old law to deliver them eternally.
Believing is a product of regeneration, not the cause of it. 2 Tim 2:13, For if they believe not, yet he (Jesus) abideth faithful, he cannot deny himself. The elect were chosen "in Christ" before the foundation of the world, and placed "in Christ" at the cross to pay for their sins. The regenerated are "in him", and he is "in us".
"Saved" in Romans 1, is a deliverance that the regenerate receives, here in time, when they come unto a knowledge of the righteousness of God.
Failure to distinguish the difference in the salvation (deliverance) scriptures, will result in believing in a false doctrine.
If you were predestinated to be saved, and you claim t o be saved now, then your predestination is behind you and you have no reason to hope. WHY? Because the text says this!
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
Ph 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
1 Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
Ph 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
1 Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Here is some logic. If God has something for us in the future that will be a completion of the whole, he might call what he has given already, a down payment, or "an earnest.." What has he given already to make us sons of God. In Rom 8 he has given his Spirit to indwell us, but our bodies are not glorified like the body of Jesus. So, what would be the earnest. The Spirit of course. Look at this;
Eph 1:13 In whom ye (gentiles in the context) also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
What did Paul say in Rom 8 the redemption of the purchase possession is? He said it was the redemption of the body.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye (gentiles in the context) also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
What did Paul say in Rom 8 the redemption of the purchase possession is? He said it was the redemption of the body.
When are we saved ?
Faith in what God says is the condition for receiving the Spirit of God and becoming his.
Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
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8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Faith is a principle, not of God, but of man.
Faith in what God says is the condition for receiving the Spirit of God and becoming his.
Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
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8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Faith is a principle, not of God, but of man.
I'll give you this; you are relentless at repeating yourself.
I have discussed with you already about how that God adopting his chosen children is a process; First you choose the children that you want to adopt,(God's elect, chosen "in Christ Jesus"). Secondly, you pay the legal fees, which was accomplished on the cross when the elect were "'in Jesus" when he paid for their sins, of those that God had chosen. Thirdly, you take them home with you, which Jesus says he will do at the last day.
Also, that believing is a product of already having been born again, and not the cause of it.
2 Tim 2:13, For if they believe not, yet he remaineth faithful, he cannot deny himself.
Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, and comes with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, not before
I have discussed with you already about how that God adopting his chosen children is a process; First you choose the children that you want to adopt,(God's elect, chosen "in Christ Jesus"). Secondly, you pay the legal fees, which was accomplished on the cross when the elect were "'in Jesus" when he paid for their sins, of those that God had chosen. Thirdly, you take them home with you, which Jesus says he will do at the last day.
Also, that believing is a product of already having been born again, and not the cause of it.
2 Tim 2:13, For if they believe not, yet he remaineth faithful, he cannot deny himself.
Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, and comes with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, not before
I bet, there is a difference between "from the foundation of the world" and "before the foundation of the world". The latter means eternity and no one existed unless in his own thinking he is but that would led to the belief of gods and goddesses probably founded on a gnostic belief and rooted in Genesis 3:5.
I realise this is a neat little post hoc rationalization. Just like believing OT saints must needs be born again ,otherwise the system comes crashing down like a house of cards . WE BECOME a son THROUGH the new birth not ADOPTION. JOHN ....1 ....12 READ IT !!!!! You don't become a son via an adoption process . WE BECOME A SON THROUGH THE NEW BIRTH ...BIRTH !!!!!!! That's the SPIRITUAL . THE PHYSICAL !!!!!!! is yet to happen . We are not GLORIFIED we are not CONFORMED we do not have the INHERITANCE. We do not have THE adoption. Notice im not saying we are not yet adopted . But rather we have not recieved THE adoption . What THE adoption IS ? what does Rom 8.23 say THE adoption IS ? THE REDEMPTION OF THE BODY !!!!!!!!!!!! Your predestination has already happened according to Calvinism which means you don't have a verse that says your predestined for Glorification. I do .Your resting on your ' election ' its all in the past . Now read Romans 8 and ask what's so comforting to hear things that God has done UNCONDITIONALLY in the past that can only be verified through your ongoing works ?" God chose me to be converted " ok how do you know? Well I have a long winded answer but essentially I WILL persevere to the end . Great comfort?
The Holy spirit is THE SPIRIT OF ADOPTION. its the GUARANTEE that what has not happened yet WILL when He returns ( THE PURCHASED POSSESION ) So we are not predestinated to the Adoption before we recieved the Spirit that is the only Guarantee that it will take place in the future when Jesus returns. You did not recieve the Spirit in eternity past guaranteeing anything. Stop and read Eph 2.11-12 .
The only ' knowing ' that counts is bring known as a son . Prior to conversion this was us .
Eph 2
2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
11¶Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
NOW NOTICE WHEN WE BECOME KNOWN TO GOD AS SONS .
13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
THE BLOOD OF CHRIST .
Now your going to do the post hoc shuffle with a response . But before you do Just think what your saying . Your going to say . " well that was because we weren't born again yet ..Well now we're in to Mormon territory with secret councils , a test where God had to lose us at the fall , for a reason unknown, then find me again in Adam , to put me in Christ ,where I deserved to be all along as I'm a love gift to the Son from the Father . Yes folks its all about me , not Jesus " ,
The only ' knowing ' that counts is bring known as a son . Prior to conversion this was us .
Eph 2
2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
11¶Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
NOW NOTICE WHEN WE BECOME KNOWN TO GOD AS SONS .
13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
THE BLOOD OF CHRIST .
Now your going to do the post hoc shuffle with a response . But before you do Just think what your saying . Your going to say . " well that was because we weren't born again yet ..Well now we're in to Mormon territory with secret councils , a test where God had to lose us at the fall , for a reason unknown, then find me again in Adam , to put me in Christ ,where I deserved to be all along as I'm a love gift to the Son from the Father . Yes folks its all about me , not Jesus " ,
Depart from me i never KNEW you Mat 7 .
We are only KNOWN as a son After we are regenerated. John 1.12 .
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Gal 4
7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son;BECAUSE GOD ADOPTED ME INTO HIS FAMILY ...WAIT NO ...and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
8¶Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather ARE KNOWN OF GOD , how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
We are only KNOWN as a son After we are regenerated. John 1.12 .
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Gal 4
7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son;BECAUSE GOD ADOPTED ME INTO HIS FAMILY ...WAIT NO ...and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
8¶Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather ARE KNOWN OF GOD , how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
There are those that are regenerated children of God that are not SONS of God, 2 Tim 2:13, For if they believe not, yet he abideth faithful, he cannot deny himself.
John 1:12, Who was it that Jesus gave the power to become the sons of God? Answer= verse 13, those which were (past tense) born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man (this eliminates accepting, and believing) but of God.
Remember, that I have said that the scriptures must harmonize. And so much for you trying to be funny.
John 1:12, Who was it that Jesus gave the power to become the sons of God? Answer= verse 13, those which were (past tense) born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man (this eliminates accepting, and believing) but of God.
Remember, that I have said that the scriptures must harmonize. And so much for you trying to be funny.
God choose his elect before the foundation of the world, in a covenant relationship, and instructed Christ to be a sacrifice, for His acceptance, not man's acceptance, for the payment of His elect's sins. and from the cross until their natural death, God looks upon them as holy, and without blame, as far as their eternal inheritance is concerned.
When his elect are born into this world in natural birth, they are as filthy rags, and without hope, until God regenerates them, sometime between their natural birth, and their natural death.
When his elect are born into this world in natural birth, they are as filthy rags, and without hope, until God regenerates them, sometime between their natural birth, and their natural death.
Wow! really ? Good grief man . I nearly gave up on you when you said Romans 1 is taking about born again, regenerated people . But you've stepped off the edge now with "]There are those that are regenerated children of God that are not SONS of God," More out of morbid curiosity, what are you referring to here 😳?