Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"
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Paul and Peter both talk about foreknowledge. So it’s a stumbling block for you, not for me because you don’t believe or else don’t understand their writings
In addition, Paul lists foreknowledge and predestination before justification in Romans 8:28-30. If foreknowledge and predestination were based on the fact that we’re already justified, he would have reversed the order. It would have been called, justified, foreknown, predestined, glorified, which is your paradigm.
In addition, Paul lists foreknowledge and predestination before justification in Romans 8:28-30. If foreknowledge and predestination were based on the fact that we’re already justified, he would have reversed the order. It would have been called, justified, foreknown, predestined, glorified, which is your paradigm.
What does the question of “ when was I in Him” have to do with Ephesians 1:4-5. We have already established that we were not saved before time, so it is an irrelevant question.
A. We were not in Christ before we were born
B. Paul said the events in Ephesians 1:4-5 took place before the foundation of the world
C. Therefore, it follows that the phrase “ in Him” is not referring to us, but rather is saying something about the verb ( chose). See Ephesians 3:11 where the phrase in Christ is used also in reference to a verb rather than a noun in the same manner.
“Come on man”
A. We were not in Christ before we were born
B. Paul said the events in Ephesians 1:4-5 took place before the foundation of the world
C. Therefore, it follows that the phrase “ in Him” is not referring to us, but rather is saying something about the verb ( chose). See Ephesians 3:11 where the phrase in Christ is used also in reference to a verb rather than a noun in the same manner.
“Come on man”
Your basing everything on you being individually chosen TO BE saved , because God saw you would believe. In some sense this makes sense in Calvinism, because he determined everything that would take place because he determined everything. Not based on any thing he saw ahead of time ( in the mind of God theory ) But because he predestinated everything before the foundation in a absolute sense, down to every dust mote ( says John piper )
Its God choice of the church in Christ for heavenly blessings . It really is that simple . This makes perfect sense with the entire bible. Paul reveals the mysteries, such as ' in him ' . He also reveals all the blessings through ephesians of those that get in him .Your theory ( Calminian) is not in keeping with anything in Ephesians that Paul is writing about .
We were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blame before Him in love, having been predestinated (aorist participle)unto the adoption of children...we were predestinated unto the adoption of sons when we were chosen in Him...which was before the foundation of the world.
We were also foreknow of God. And those God foreknows, He predestined. And those God predestines, He calls and those He calls, He justified, and those He justified, He glorifies
And we are elect according to the foreknowledge of God through the sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience and by the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus
Awesome stuff
We were also foreknow of God. And those God foreknows, He predestined. And those God predestines, He calls and those He calls, He justified, and those He justified, He glorifies
And we are elect according to the foreknowledge of God through the sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience and by the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus
Awesome stuff
So let's run with this doctrine then . So before you were born. Before your parents even conceived you , before Adam existed you were Chosen in him to be holy and blameless in love no less and you were also predestinated to the adoption ,which you think happens at conversion . Ignoring Rom 8.23 . So being Elected and predestinated before you existed im assuming then God Chose you to be saved and then to make sure you were ' adopted ' at conversion he also in love predestinated you to guarantee your 'arrival' in time. Welcome to Calvinism then .
No one is saying there is no relevance to us, all scripture is profitable for our learning.
But just like the OT is relevant for us but we don't take our salvation doctrine from verses like Genesis 17:14, we don't take salvation doctrine from James, Peter and John, but God gave us the opportunity to learn from those letters, what Israel must undergo during the Tribulation.
But just like the OT is relevant for us but we don't take our salvation doctrine from verses like Genesis 17:14, we don't take salvation doctrine from James, Peter and John, but God gave us the opportunity to learn from those letters, what Israel must undergo during the Tribulation.
The original timetable set in the OT was that Israel the nation is to be saved first, then all Jews will be priests that will bring the entire world, the gentile nations to God, as stated in Zechariah 8. But there was another plan hidden in God since the beginning of time, which I will bring in later.
That original plan required Israel to repent and believe that Jesus is their promised Messiah, which they rejected.
Paul explained it well in Romans 11
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
God deliberately made it easy for us former Gentiles to be saved, because the Jews kept rejecting God, in order to provoke the Jews to jealousy.
Israel rejected God the Father in the OT by ignoring or stoning their prophets, the last being John the Baptist (Luke 16:16, Acts 7:52).
Israel rejected God the Son in the 4 Gospels by putting him on the cross (Acts 2:36)
Israel rejected God the Holy Spirit in Acts by stoning Stephen who was full of the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:55).
With the entire Trinity being rejected by the Jews, the last one to me is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, which is an unforgivable sin under the Law of Moses, God finally unveiled his hidden plan to save the Gentiles independent of the Jews, a plan he had kept hidden since the world began (Ephesians 3:9).
Once you realized this, Ephesians 2 and 3 take on totally new meaning, and you as a former Gentile, will really praise God the Father for his wonderful plan. And you will not be upset that Jesus was only speaking to the Jews in the 4 Gospels.
That original plan required Israel to repent and believe that Jesus is their promised Messiah, which they rejected.
Paul explained it well in Romans 11
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
God deliberately made it easy for us former Gentiles to be saved, because the Jews kept rejecting God, in order to provoke the Jews to jealousy.
Israel rejected God the Father in the OT by ignoring or stoning their prophets, the last being John the Baptist (Luke 16:16, Acts 7:52).
Israel rejected God the Son in the 4 Gospels by putting him on the cross (Acts 2:36)
Israel rejected God the Holy Spirit in Acts by stoning Stephen who was full of the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:55).
With the entire Trinity being rejected by the Jews, the last one to me is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, which is an unforgivable sin under the Law of Moses, God finally unveiled his hidden plan to save the Gentiles independent of the Jews, a plan he had kept hidden since the world began (Ephesians 3:9).
Once you realized this, Ephesians 2 and 3 take on totally new meaning, and you as a former Gentile, will really praise God the Father for his wonderful plan. And you will not be upset that Jesus was only speaking to the Jews in the 4 Gospels.
The original timetable set in the OT was that Israel the nation is to be saved first, then all Jews will be priests that will bring the entire world, the gentile nations to God, as stated in Zechariah 8. But there was another plan hidden in God since the beginning of time, which I will bring in later.
That original plan required Israel to repent and believe that Jesus is their promised Messiah, which they rejected.
Paul explained it well in Romans 11
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
God deliberately made it easy for us former Gentiles to be saved, because the Jews kept rejecting God, in order to provoke the Jews to jealousy.
Israel rejected God the Father in the OT by ignoring or stoning their prophets, the last being John the Baptist (Luke 16:16, Acts 7:52).
Israel rejected God the Son in the 4 Gospels by putting him on the cross (Acts 2:36)
Israel rejected God the Holy Spirit in Acts by stoning Stephen who was full of the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:55).
With the entire Trinity being rejected by the Jews, the last one to me is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, which is an unforgivable sin under the Law of Moses, God finally unveiled his hidden plan to save the Gentiles independent of the Jews, a plan he had kept hidden since the world began (Ephesians 3:9).
Once you realized this, Ephesians 2 and 3 take on totally new meaning, and you as a former Gentile, will really praise God the Father for his wonderful plan. And you will not be upset that Jesus was only speaking to the Jews in the 4 Gospels.
That original plan required Israel to repent and believe that Jesus is their promised Messiah, which they rejected.
Paul explained it well in Romans 11
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
God deliberately made it easy for us former Gentiles to be saved, because the Jews kept rejecting God, in order to provoke the Jews to jealousy.
Israel rejected God the Father in the OT by ignoring or stoning their prophets, the last being John the Baptist (Luke 16:16, Acts 7:52).
Israel rejected God the Son in the 4 Gospels by putting him on the cross (Acts 2:36)
Israel rejected God the Holy Spirit in Acts by stoning Stephen who was full of the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:55).
With the entire Trinity being rejected by the Jews, the last one to me is blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, which is an unforgivable sin under the Law of Moses, God finally unveiled his hidden plan to save the Gentiles independent of the Jews, a plan he had kept hidden since the world began (Ephesians 3:9).
Once you realized this, Ephesians 2 and 3 take on totally new meaning, and you as a former Gentile, will really praise God the Father for his wonderful plan. And you will not be upset that Jesus was only speaking to the Jews in the 4 Gospels.
Yes, as I said, the world was to be saved thru Jesus Christ.
But you can understand that John 3:16 does not mean that Israel does not have the rights of first refusal to Jesus right?
Jesus himself told the Gentile lady who tried to seek him "ahead of time" in Mark 7:27, that the children, which refers to Jewish children are to be fed first, before the dogs, which was a term used by Israel to describe Gentiles, can partake of Christ.
27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.
Jesus himself understood the OT prophetic timetable, Israel must be given the priority to decide whether or not to accept Jesus first, before the Gentiles could decide.
But you can understand that John 3:16 does not mean that Israel does not have the rights of first refusal to Jesus right?
Jesus himself told the Gentile lady who tried to seek him "ahead of time" in Mark 7:27, that the children, which refers to Jewish children are to be fed first, before the dogs, which was a term used by Israel to describe Gentiles, can partake of Christ.
27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.
Jesus himself understood the OT prophetic timetable, Israel must be given the priority to decide whether or not to accept Jesus first, before the Gentiles could decide.