Why it will be a pre-trib rapture and why the rapture takes place.

[Corban]

Adam WAS NAKED,and walked with God in the evenings naked.
The clothing was AFTER the fall/sin/temptation.

The reason for clothing = shame. Shame entered them both.

In Parable, a "covering" or garment, is one's works. We can see this in:
Psalm 73:6, "Therefore pride compasseth them about as a chain; violence covereth them as a garment"
Psalm 109:18, "As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, ... ."

A Tree in Parable is a king and his kingdom (Judg.9, Daniel.4, Ezekiel 31). Combined Israel was a "Vine". Judah, aftre the captivity iscalled a "Fig Tree". Our Lord cursed the Fig Tree. It had leaves but no fruit. Judah, by the time of Jesus, had fallen into works of Law but did it without conviction and so did not produce fruits. The leaves of the Tree are its covering - or garment. "Fig leaves" are works of Law. Adam and Eve could satisfy each other with "good works", but when Jehovah arrived Adam, as he stood before God, knew that self made righteousness cannot stand before God (Rom.3:10). The best philanthropists seem great before men, but they cannot stand before God. Why? Because they are an evil Tree, and an eveil tree only produces evil. It is the Tree of Knowledge of Good AND Evil. Even the good that comes from this Tree, kills.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Could you show me scriptures to confirm your claims that there will first be a rapture of the church that is then followed by a new bunch of believers coming in later when there are no believers to guide and instruct anyone?

Consider a few points (which I've made in past posts):

--how that (I believe) Paul is a "TYPE" of "the 144,000" (who will come to faith FOLLOWING our Departure/Rapture IN THE AIR), [there are studies out there showing the numerous connections/parallels], but look what he said here and PONDER HIS CONVERSION and early yrs as a believer (per Gal1, quoted below), which in another passage said "SUDDENLY there shown around him A LIGHT FROM HEAVEN":

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia [how long was that?], and returned again unto Damascus.
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
20 Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.
21 Afterwards I came into the regions of Syria and Cilicia;
22 And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:
23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.
24 And they glorified God in me.

It seems counterintuitive to me that someone is going to come to believe have faith in Christ when there is no one of faith left on earth to instruct anyone.

Remember, it is not as though... for example, if "our Rapture" took place TODAY... that TOMORROW every single person left on the earth will ALL OF A SUDDEN have COMPLETELY FORGOTTEN EVERYTHING that the Christians/believers/Church-which-is-His-body has already been saying throughout its existence while here (until just the day previous, when they exited/departed out of here)! and that all Bibles suddenly vanished along with us. No.

Keep in mind what I said about the believing remnant of Israel (that our Rapture will be a PRIMARY IMPETUS that turns them TO HIM)... and many of those, like Paul, know the OT scriptures well (they just, presently, MISS HIM in it!... but not THEN!)

Plus, I've pointed out how Paul (in 2Th1 & 2) is covering the TWO distinct [/opposite] reactions/responses/"BELIEFS" ppl will come to embrace FOLLOWING our Rapture (that is, when they find themselves existing on the earth FOLLOWING that point in time [whether they recognize it or not, for what it is])... where he uses the terms [on either end of the book-ended passage] "the Day of the Lord [time-period]" and "IN THAT DAY" (which phrases I've pointed out in past posts always refer to the SAME TIME-PERIOD, when they are used in the same CONTEXTS, as elsewhere in Scripture--and it holds true here as well--Note again that that time-period ARRIVES as the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3]," but many MORE "BPs [PLURAL]" follow on from that INTIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]"... this is how "birth PANGS" work!)

Will tough times make them think, "Hey maybe I should get on board with all those people who had earlier flown away?" I do not see any scriptures that point to any scenario like this.

Yeah, the passage [/context] I just referred to where Paul is telling of the TWO OPPOSITE "beliefs" ppl will come to (IN/DURING/WITHIN the trib years... FOLLOWING our "Rapture/Departure")... ditto the above paragraph I put (not to mention what I'd put in past posts, that Matt24 is not covering the Subject of our Rapture AT ALL, but what FOLLOWS it... and leads up to His "RETURN" to the earth [Rev19])

That's all I'm going to put ATM, so as to not get too lengthy here (tho I could! )

 

[luigi]

Consider a few points (which I've made in past posts):

--how that (I believe) Paul is a "TYPE" of "the 144,000" (who will come to faith FOLLOWING our Departure/Rapture IN THE AIR), [there are studies out there showing the numerous connections/parallels], but look what he said here and PONDER HIS CONVERSION and early yrs as a believer (per Gal1, quoted below), which in another passage said "SUDDENLY there shown around him A LIGHT FROM HEAVEN":

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia [how long was that?], and returned again unto Damascus.
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
20 Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.
21 Afterwards I came into the regions of Syria and Cilicia;
22 And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:
23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.
24 And they glorified God in me.



Remember, it is not as though... for example, if "our Rapture" took place TODAY... that TOMORROW every single person left on the earth will ALL OF A SUDDEN have COMPLETELY FORGOTTEN EVERYTHING that the Christians/believers/Church-which-is-His-body has already been saying throughout its existence while here (until just the day previous, when they exited/departed out of here)! and that all Bibles suddenly vanished along with us. No.

Keep in mind what I said about the believing remnant of Israel (that our Rapture will be a PRIMARY IMPETUS that turns them TO HIM)... and many of those, like Paul, know the OT scriptures well (they just, presently, MISS HIM in it!... but not THEN!)

Plus, I've pointed out how Paul (in 2Th1 & 2) is covering the TWO distinct [/opposite] reactions/responses/"BELIEFS" ppl will come to embrace FOLLOWING our Rapture (that is, when they find themselves existing on the earth FOLLOWING that point in time [whether they recognize it or not, for what it is])... where he uses the terms [on either end of the book-ended passage] "the Day of the Lord [time-period]" and "IN THAT DAY" (which phrases I've pointed out in past posts always refer to the SAME TIME-PERIOD, when they are used in the same CONTEXTS, as elsewhere in Scripture--and it holds true here as well--Note again that that time-period ARRIVES as the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3]," but many MORE "BPs [PLURAL]" follow on from that INTIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]"... this is how "birth PANGS" work!)



Yeah, the passage [/context] I just referred to where Paul is telling of the TWO OPPOSITE "beliefs" ppl will come to (IN/DURING/WITHIN the trib years... FOLLOWING our "Rapture/Departure")... ditto the above paragraph I put (not to mention what I'd put in past posts, that Matt24 is not covering the Subject of our Rapture AT ALL, but what FOLLOWS it... and leads up to His "RETURN" to the earth [Rev19])

That's all I'm going to put ATM, so as to not get too lengthy here (tho I could! )

You may be correct, or partially correct, or totally incorrect in one or more of your conjectures. Conjectures do not provide the substantive convincing power that the Word carries. Additionally, as we are seeing the world descend into ever greater chaos with tribulations against Christians increasing, then logic clearly shows that the rapture is not what many believe it to be.
In the whole of the bible there are three areas in which the term being "caught up" to God in heaven appear. In 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 an individual is caught up to Heaven where he hears words that he later relates to Paul on earth, thereby indicating the individual, either returned to the earth, or that his rapture was spiritual.
In Revelation 12:5 a woman gives birth to a male child who is caught up to God in heaven, who then later the devil goes to make war with here on the earth (Revelation 12:17), thereby indicating the male child either returning to the earth, or that his rapture was spiritual.
In 1 Thessalonians 4:17, that in which the children of God are caught up to the Lord in the clouds, is the one which the rapture theory is based on our leaving the earth.
Why would the Lord provide two other areas in which the ones caught up, later are seen physically still on the earth?
The being caught up to the Lord in the clouds in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, I believe to be a spiritual ascension, as are the other two cases of being caught up.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

You may be correct, or partially correct, or totally incorrect in one or more of your conjectures. Conjectures do not provide the substantive convincing power that the Word carries. Additionally, as we are seeing the world descend into ever greater chaos with tribulations against Christians increasing, then logic clearly shows that the rapture is not what many believe it to be.

In the whole of the bible there are three areas in which the term being "caught up" to God in heaven appear. In 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 an individual is caught up to Heaven where he hears words that he later relates to Paul on earth, thereby indicating the individual, either returned to the earth, or that his rapture was spiritual.

Paul said that "whether in the body, I cannot tell, or whether out of the body, I cannot tell" 2Cor12:2, with vv.4-5a telling what occurred in that instance... and possibly v.7 telling of the aftermath of same, for a particular reason (related to v.5a).

In Revelation 12:5 a woman gives birth to a male child who is caught up to God in heaven, who then later the devil goes to make war with here on the earth (Revelation 12:17), thereby indicating the male child either returning to the earth, or that his rapture was spiritual.

I do not see that at all, that the man child [SINGULAR] IS "the remnant/REST [PLURAL] OF her seed" who are still on the earth FOLLOWING the birth of "the male [G730 - SINGULAR - arsena/arren (v.13)]"--again, I see this being parallel to what we read in Micah 5:3 [distinct from 5:2 about Jesus' birth], where 5:3 (within that verse alone) is DISTINGUISHING BETWEEN the one "BIRTHED" by the woman (the one in v.3, not v.2!) and "the REMNANT" who "return" at that point (that is, FOLLOWING that point. ) Note: NOT "return TO THE EARTH" but "return TO HIM".

In 1 Thessalonians 4:17, that in which the children of God are caught up to the Lord in the clouds, is the one which the rapture theory is based on our leaving the earth.
Why would the Lord provide two other areas in which the ones caught up, later are seen physically still on the earth?

I only see ONE out of those TWO examples you've supplied, and I believe (in the case of Paul--who I believe he's referring to himself there) is because of (what he says elsewhere), "the husbandman that laboureth must be FIRST PARTAKER of the fruits. Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding [G4907] in all things." 2Tim2:6-7... He had just spoken of two other "illustrations" (which elsewhere in the text of Timothy he relates to himself [re: the soldier, the runner, [then the husbandman/farmer]" in 2Tim4:7, where "THE faith" refers to "that body of truth" [which we find spelled out in the NT following Jesus' death/resurrection/ascension/exaltation])

The being caught up to the Lord in the clouds in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, I believe to be a spiritual ascension, as are the other two cases of being caught up.

Again, I disagree that Rev12 "the man child" CAME BACK (in THAT context... for v.17 is speaking of OTHERS [PLURAL]")... but even if Paul was the one in 2Cor12 who was "caught up to the third heaven" and came back... exactly NO ONE (with the "pre-trib" viewpoint that you are arguing against) is saying that WE do not return WITH HIM... WE DO! (but as "ALREADY-WED" [IN HEAVEN]... and then to HEAD BACK DOWN TO "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [earthly MK], where those "saints" [in such contexts: the "guestS [PLURAL]," the "virginS/bridesmaidS [PLURAL]," etc ARE STILL LOCATED upon His "RETURN" there--never having lifted off the earth--their having come to faith FOLLOWING our Rapture/Departure... Notice the CONTEXTS of "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" do not speak of "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" at all (see again 2Cor11:2 "that *I* [Paul] may present 'A CHASTE VIRGIN [SINGULAR] to Christ"!)])

 

[luigi]

Paul said that "whether in the body, I cannot tell, or whether out of the body, I cannot tell" 2Cor12:2, with vv.4-5a telling what occurred in that instance... and possibly v.7 telling of the aftermath of same, for a particular reason (related to v.5a).



I do not see that at all, that the man child [SINGULAR] IS "the remnant/REST [PLURAL] OF her seed" who are still on the earth FOLLOWING the birth of "the male [G730 - SINGULAR - arsena/arren (v.13)]"--again, I see this being parallel to what we read in Micah 5:3 [distinct from 5:2 about Jesus' birth], where 5:3 (within that verse alone) is DISTINGUISHING BETWEEN the one "BIRTHED" by the woman (the one in v.3, not v.2!) and "the REMNANT" who "return" at that point (that is, FOLLOWING that point. ) Note: NOT "return TO THE EARTH" but "return TO HIM".


I only see ONE out of those TWO examples you've supplied, and I believe (in the case of Paul--who I believe he's referring to himself there) is because of (what he says elsewhere), "the husbandman that laboureth must be FIRST PARTAKER of the fruits. Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding [G4907] in all things." 2Tim2:6-7... He had just spoken of two other "illustrations" (which elsewhere in the text of Timothy he relates to himself [re: the soldier, the runner, [then the husbandman/farmer]" in 2Tim4:7, where "THE faith" refers to "that body of truth" [which we find spelled out in the NT following Jesus' death/resurrection/ascension/exaltation])



Again, I disagree that Rev12 "the man child" CAME BACK (in THAT context... for v.17 is speaking of OTHERS [PLURAL]")... but even if Paul was the one in 2Cor12 who was "caught up to the third heaven" and came back... exactly NO ONE (with the "pre-trib" viewpoint that you are arguing against) is saying that WE do not return WITH HIM... WE DO! (but as "ALREADY-WED" [IN HEAVEN]... and then to HEAD BACK DOWN TO "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [earthly MK], where those "saints" [in such contexts: the "guestS [PLURAL]," the "virginS/bridesmaidS [PLURAL]," etc ARE STILL LOCATED upon His "RETURN" there--never having lifted off the earth--their having come to faith FOLLOWING our Rapture/Departure... Notice the CONTEXTS of "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" do not speak of "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" at all (see again 2Cor11:2 "that *I* [Paul] may present 'A CHASTE VIRGIN [SINGULAR] to Christ"!)])

Micah 5:3 does clearly describe Jesus giving up his days on earth, until a certain travailing woman gives birth, who are the remnant brethren. This is the same travailing woman in Revelation 12, who gives birth to the male child in Revelation 12:5, who are the remnant of her seed in Revelation 12:17. Those caught up in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 and Revelation 12:5 are spiritually caught up to God while they remain physically on the earth. I therefore likewise see 1 Thessalonians 4:17 as a spiritual ascension while physically remaining on the earth.

Micah 5:3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Yeah, I see your view, but I DISAGREE that the word "THE REST [*G3062 - loipoi - PLURAL] [of her seed]" speaks of the SAME as "the man child [SINGULAR]" (<--who I believe is representative of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY [SINGULAR]," and whom she "HAD BROUGHT FORTH" prior to this point in the chronology/this Rev12 text point-in-time when Satan is cast down unto the earth and then goes after THEM [coz they ARE on the earth--"harpazo" did not pertain TO THEM])


--"[THE] *REST" - G3062 - loipoi [PLURAL] -
loipos: the rest, the remaining
Original Word: λοιπός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: loipos
Phonetic Spelling: (loy-poy')
Definition: the rest, the remaining
Usage: left, left behind, the remainder, the rest, the others.




[note: the text does NOT state, "the male child WHO ARE the remnant[/rest (PL)] of her seed"... as you are expressing it... The text DISTINGUISHES them... (a singular, then a plural)]

 

[KJV1611]

I will answer in reverse to simplify.

The wording is "sown IN corruption". It could also be rendered, "sown IN THE STATE of corruption". It means that the seed is in a condition of corruption when it is planted. "Raised IN incorruption" means that it went to death a corrupt seed, BUT is raised in A STATE of incorruption. This is best seen by the LIVING who see no death and resurrection in 1st Corinthians 15:51-55. They, while alive, because of their STATE of corruption, must be CHANGED.

The bare grain is a metaphor for our bodies in this life. It then falls into the earth, dies, is watered and fed by the nourishment of the soil, and comes up in a different form - yet the organic makeup is still the same. When a seed falls into the ground and its shell is destroyed in death, NOTHING must be added to the genetic make up of the seed to produce more of itself. The only thing we add is food - nourishment.

Sorry for the delay, some how I missed your reply. We disagree and you don't have to respond to this if you're not interested, but I would to bring up a couple of points on your response.

The analogy being used is the planting of a viable living seed, not a dead rotting seed. The seed is planted into the ground so that it can produce life - the plant.

The seeds are planted in fertile soil. Fertile soil is full of corruption, the decaying organic material is what makes the soil fertile.

 

[Corban]

Sorry for the delay, some how I missed your reply. We disagree and you don't have to respond to this if you're not interested, but I would to bring up a couple of points on your response.

The analogy being used is the planting of a viable living seed, not a dead rotting seed. The seed is planted into the ground so that it can produce life - the plant.

The seeds are planted in fertile soil. Fertile soil is full of corruption, the decaying organic material is what makes the soil fertile.

No. That's just it. The analogy is of a corrupt seed being planted and coming up CHANGED because God interfered. The same for the LIVING in verses 51:55. They are in corrupt bodies and must be CHANGED. This is what the Holy Spirit thinks of our bodies;

• A vile body (Phil.3:21)
• A body of this death (Rom.7:24)
• No good thing dwells in my flesh (Rom.7:18)
• A body of sin (singular - Rom.6:6)
• A body of sins (plural - Col.2:11)
• In sin I was conceived (Ps.51:5)

 

[KJV1611]

No. That's just it. The analogy is of a corrupt seed being planted and coming up CHANGED because God interfered. The same for the LIVING in verses 51:55. They are in corrupt bodies and must be CHANGED. This is what the Holy Spirit thinks of our bodies;

• A vile body (Phil.3:21)
• A body of this death (Rom.7:24)
• No good thing dwells in my flesh (Rom.7:18)
• A body of sin (singular - Rom.6:6)
• A body of sins (plural - Col.2:11)
• In sin I was conceived (Ps.51:5)

Those are good verses and they are pointing to the corruption that our souls are planted into - this earthly body of death. Do you agree that our soul is the "real us" and that our souls have been planted into these corrupt earthly bodies temporarily?

 

[Corban]

Those are good verses and they are pointing to the corruption that our souls are planted into - this earthly body of death. Do you agree that our soul is the "real us" and that our souls have been planted into these corrupt earthly bodies temporarily?

I'm afraid not. If scripture says BODY, then it's BODY for me. And GRAIN is not planted into a SOUL. It is planted into the ground in death. So also Romans 6:1-8 and Galatians 2:20.

 

[KJV1611]

I'm afraid not. If scripture says BODY, then it's BODY for me. And GRAIN is not planted into a SOUL. It is planted into the ground in death. So also Romans 6:1-8 and Galatians 2:20.

I'm not saying that grain is planted into the soul, I'm saying the soul IS THE GRAIN. Adam was made a LIVING SOUL and placed into an earthly body. Is this not true?

 

[Corban]

I'm not saying that grain is planted into the soul, I'm saying the soul IS THE GRAIN. Adam was made a LIVING SOUL and placed into an earthly body. Is this not true?

Here is your sentence from posting # 209

Those are good verses and they are pointing to the corruption that our souls are planted into - this earthly body of death

But if I'm misunderstanding, let me state it again. Our Body is corrupt. Therefore, "IN A CONDITION" of corruption, it is planted in death. When God resurrects it, it undergoes a CHANGE. It PUTS OFF CORRUPTION.

37 "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, ... 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body" (1st Corinthians 15:37-38)

A careful reading yields the following; What is sown is a corrupt body. In resurrection God gives that which was planted another body as it pleases Him. Note, the old body does not disappear. It is the SEED for the New Body. This is TWICE confirmed;

1. "God giveth IT" (the seed)
2. "Every seed HIS own body"

The seed is the same, but the resulting body is CHANGED - not EXCHANGED. This change is reflected in its glory. Christ has the glory of the sun, you, "a star", will have your glory, and I, another "star", will have my glory. But ALL THREE have "celestial glory". The word "glory" in the Greek means "made apparent". In resurrection it will be made apparent Who Christ is, what type of Christian YOU were and what type of Christian I was. Next to us maybe is Hitler, and his glory is "terrestrial" because he had no "birth from above". And it will be "made apparent" who Hitler was. This is seen in Israel as well. Israel are resurrected after the Great Tribulation, "... some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Dan.12:1-2)

Saul will be there and so will David. Which one will carry which glory?

 

[KJV1611]

Here is your sentence from posting # 209



But if I'm misunderstanding, let me state it again. Our Body is corrupt. Therefore, "IN A CONDITION" of corruption, it is planted in death. When God resurrects it, it undergoes a CHANGE. It PUTS OFF CORRUPTION.

Just for clarification before I make a response. You said, our body is corrupt and it gets planted in death.
What is the death that our bodies get planted into?

 

[Corban]

Just for clarification before I make a response. You said, our body is corrupt and it gets planted in death.
What is the death that our bodies get planted into?

Planted IN death. 1st Corinthians 15:36.

"Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die"

 

[KJV1611]

Planted IN death. 1st Corinthians 15:36.

"Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die"

That's like saying plant the seed in the seed isn't it. I'm trying to stay true to the seed analogy.

 

[Corban]

That's like saying plant the seed in the seed isn't it. I'm trying to stay true to the seed analogy.

No. You and I both know that you changed my "IN" into "INTO". There is a vast difference between;
"A seed releases its life IN death", and .... "A seed is planted INTO soil."

This was your initial thesis. You maintained that our bodies are planted INTO corruption. I challenged it with our bodies are planted IN corruption.

But brother, we have gone back and forth about resurrection and done no service to a "Pre-Tribulation Rapture". We have effectively derailed the thread. I repent.

 

[CS1]

just know there is not one day promised to any of us. So many here will not even possibly see the rapture as aa living being therefore if YOU die today you are 50% more correct of a pre-trib Rapture then those who died saying there will not be one LOL

 

[Lafftur]

Okay, I’m going to say what I have to say..... many will rip it to shreds and others will consider and inquire of the Lord.....

There is NO Pre-Trib because we’re already in Mid-Trib.

Jesus Christ’s entrance into public ministry began the 7 years of Tribulation. He had the first 3 1/2 years. It was a time of peace.

When the anti-Christ enters public ministry, he will also have 3 1/2 years and it will be a horrific time of woe.

All Believers in Jesus Christ are going through the consequences and judgments of God even right now but, will be kept safely away from the vials of God’s Wrath - ONLY because of the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ.

In Jesus Christ we have ALREADY been raptured.

It will NOT matter if we are on the Earth or not - we will NEVER experience God’s Wrath.

 

[Absolutely]

Okay, I’m going to say what I have to say..... many will rip it to shreds and others will consider and inquire of the Lord.....

There is NO Pre-Trib because we’re already in Mid-Trib.

Jesus Christ’s entrance into public ministry began the 7 years of Tribulation. He had the first 3 1/2 years. It was a time of peace.

When the anti-Christ enters public ministry, he will also have 3 1/2 years and it will be a horrific time of woe.

All Believers in Jesus Christ are going through the consequences and judgments of God even right now but, will be kept safely away from the vials of God’s Wrath - ONLY because of the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ.

In Jesus Christ we have ALREADY been raptured.

It will NOT matter if we are on the Earth or not - we will NEVER experience God’s Wrath.

Factor in the bride /groom.

Almost nobody sees the elephant in the living room


Look at the last words of the bible and the first miracle of Jesus.
Then take a look at Ruth.

End times are framed in the bride/groom dimension but it is unbelievably hidden from the people of God.

Perplexing to say the least.

 

[laymen]

Dan 12:2 (KJV) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The resurrection STARTED when MANY, but not all, of the bodies of those that slept in dirt rose.

Matthew tells us that MANY but not all of the bodies of the OT saints rose when Jesus rose.

Mat 27:52 (KJV) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

That event was the beginning of the resurrection.

Matthew 27:52 (SDABC5): It should be noted that while the graves were opened at the time of Christ’s death, the resurrected saints did not rise till after Jesus arose (Matt. 27:53).