Post tribulation belief - Must Read!!! Please Comment,

[wakeup]

You did where? If I missed them could ya at least go cut and paste them?

You said I was wrong. But your not willing to show me how I was wrong in those questions? I am sure you would not like it if I did this to you!

I just looked at this thread. and not one place did I find you answering these questions.

I am sorry guys,but i know what the problem is here.
the problem is that you have not discovered the difference between the TRIBULATION and the WRATH OF GOD. They are not the same; THE TRIBULATION IS CAUSED BY THE PALE HORSE(THE FALSE PROPHET) and the wrath of God comes from heaven; the seven angels and the seven vials.They are not the same thing.
The tribulation is the war in israel and the persecution of the saints,by the false prophet.
The wrath of God will start with the first angel causing fire and hailstone on earth.
The second angel will cause a mountain burning to fall into the sea. etc.

So we have to go through the tribulation: And immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened---mat24:29.The coming is AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

As conserning the thief in the night; this only aplies to those that are asleep,not to the watchfull,the ones that are awake.

''wakeup''.

 

[Adrianv125]

UHHH those who are asleep??? I don't think so. How can those who sleep be watching???? It will come as a surprise to those who are watching!!!

1 Thessalonians 5

The Day of the Lord

1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us WATCH and be SOBER. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.


And how can the tribulation be caused by the false prophet??? Is he the one opening up the seals???? I don't think so!!!
It is Jesus who has sent the 4 riders and the 3 judgments not the false prophet. I don't know where you get these wacky interpretations from.

Revelation 6

First Seal: The Conqueror

1 Now I saw when the LAMB OPENED ONE OF THE SEALS;[a] and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.” 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.
Second Seal: Conflict on Earth


3 When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.” 4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.
Third Seal: Scarcity on Earth


5 When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart[c] of wheat for a denarius,[d] and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.”
Fourth Seal: Widespread Death on Earth


7 When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.
Fifth Seal: The Cry of the Martyrs


9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
Sixth Seal: Cosmic Disturbances


12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold,[e] there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon[f] became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders,[g] the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the WRATH of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 (New King James Version)

6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[a] who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way

What's restraining? The Holy Spirit dwelling within the Church. The Church will be taken away.

Ohh and the wrath clearly starts on chapter 6 just like the people who call on the rocks to fall on them said

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am sorry guys,but i know what the problem is here.
the problem is that you have not discovered the difference between the TRIBULATION and the WRATH OF GOD. They are not the same; THE TRIBULATION IS CAUSED BY THE PALE HORSE(THE FALSE PROPHET) and the wrath of God comes from heaven; the seven angels and the seven vials.They are not the same thing.
The tribulation is the war in israel and the persecution of the saints,by the false prophet.
The wrath of God will start with the first angel causing fire and hailstone on earth.
The second angel will cause a mountain burning to fall into the sea. etc.

So we have to go through the tribulation: And immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened---mat24:29.The coming is AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

As conserning the thief in the night; this only aplies to those that are asleep,not to the watchfull,the ones that are awake.

''wakeup''.

The tribulation is the same as the wrath of God. It is also called the time of Gods testing. Jacob's trouble. many things.

As for thief in the night. It goes for all.

Scripture says the lord comes as a theif. Those who are dead will go first. those alive will follow after.

 

[zone]

Agreed, The term bound means imprisoned.

1) When Satan is bound he is unable to affect anyone.
2) He can't tempt sinners.
3) Temp national leaders.
4) Control anyones thoughts or actions.
5) Do anything.
6) He is bound, totally powerless in the world. .

EG: could you provide any scriptures which verify the claims above?
either from an amillennialist OR dispensationalist position?

 

[zone]

That has nothing at all to do with satan being bound so he can not deceive the nations. Which was the point, He is not bound (imprisoned) now. He is limited in what he can do. He can not deceive the elect. But he can and is deceiving nations. Again see Hitler and many others. So lol

what's Hitler got to do with anything? you're making assumptions about WHAT the deceiving IS ABOUT> what it will MAKE PEOPLE DO.

it has EVERYTHING to do with it EG:

even now in the midst of global warring, all the trouble: the Gospel goes forward.

is it fair to say we are not in the Tribulation yet?
have we encounter the son of perdition and the false prophet yet?
has the world been dazzled by lying signs and wonders (fire falling from heaven) yet?
has a mark or name or worship been established yet?

NO> we are not in the tribulation YET.

satan is currently RESTRAINED (people then use their imaginations to presume what that SHOULD look and be like).

when he is released: WHAT HAPPENS?

2 Thessalonians2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

things we are told about The Second Advent, just before.

(satan is currently restrained, though the mystery of iniquity still abounds.)

remember, 2 Thessalonians is SAYING SATAN IS BOUND!...this is not talking about the millennium....its says NOW - meaning back when paul wrote it!)

~

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and

that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

And now ye know what withholdeth that
he might be revealed in his time. <<short space

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:

only he who now letteth will let (the restrainer)
until he be taken out of the way. (either the restrainer steps away and releases, or the one retrained is thrown out, cast out)

And then shall that Wicked be revealed,

whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG: could you provide any scriptures which verify the claims above?
either from an amillennialist OR dispensationalist position?

1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

Bound = To bind or imprison
shut up = To shut or lock up
bottomless pit = debth or the abyss
deceive = wander about, stray from truth, deceive
nations = Group of people, nations, gentiles (as apposed to jews or Christians.)
1000 years = 1000 years not less, not more

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.

1000 tears = 1000 years
released = let go, freed
deceive = wander about, stray from truth, deceive
nations = group of people, nations, gentiles (as apposed to jews or christians)
battle = war

There is no other interpretation, whether your millennial or pre-millennial. This is the only interpretation. Otherwise you have to symbolize everything and take nothing literally.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

what's Hitler got to do with anything? you're making assumptions about WHAT the deceiving IS ABOUT> what it will MAKE PEOPLE DO.

it has EVERYTHING to do with it EG:

even now in the midst of global warring, all the trouble: the Gospel goes forward.

is it fair to say we are not in the Tribulation yet?
have we encounter the son of perdition and the false prophet yet?
has the world been dazzled by lying signs and wonders (fire falling from heaven) yet?
has a mark or name or worship been established yet?

NO> we are not in the tribulation YET.

satan is currently RESTRAINED (people then use their imaginations to presume what that SHOULD look and be like).

when he is released: WHAT HAPPENS?

2 Thessalonians2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

things we are told about The Second Advent, just before.

(satan is currently restrained, though the mystery of iniquity still abounds.)

remember, 2 Thessalonians is SAYING SATAN IS BOUND!...this is not talking about the millennium....its says NOW - meaning back when paul wrote it!)

~

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and

that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

And now ye know what withholdeth that
he might be revealed in his time. <<short space

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:

only he who now letteth will let (the restrainer)
until he be taken out of the way. (either the restrainer steps away and releases, or the one retrained is thrown out, cast out)

And then shall that Wicked be revealed,

whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

If you do not think Hitler had satanic influence in what he did the the jews.. well I just don't know what to think. But I still love ya sis

 

[zone]

1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

Bound = To bind or imprison - laid hold of the dragon << a literal dragon?
shut up = To shut or lock up << yep. restrained in some sense
bottomless pit = debth or the abyss << is it literally without a bottom?
deceive = wander about, stray from truth, deceive
nations = Group of people, nations, gentiles (as apposed to jews or Christians.)
1000 years = 1000 years not less, not more

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.

1000 tears = 1000 years
released = let go, freed
deceive = wander about, stray from truth, deceive
nations = group of people, nations, gentiles (as apposed to jews or christians)
battle = war

There is no other interpretation, whether your millennial or pre-millennial. This is the only interpretation. Otherwise you have to symbolize everything and take nothing literally.

when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison
he must be released for a little while.

2 Thess
And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed

WHAT???

 

[zone]

when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison
he must be released for a little while.


2 Thess
And you know what is restraining him NOW so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who NOW restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed


WHAT???

dat ol satan bin bound since Calvary!

 

[zone]

If you do not think Hitler had satanic influence in what he did the the jews.. well I just don't know what to think. But I still love ya sis

luv you too bro.
there's a very specific thing satan is restrained from doing.
more on this in a bit.

 

[peterT]

If you are saying that He is coming at the end of the 7 years of tribulation, then you are stating that you know the hour when He comes for his church, which should be like a thief in the night (which you don't expect, meaning SURPRISE) since you will be able to count to 7 years after the antichrist is revealed. So pretty much post trib is completely against the fist verse you posted there (mark 13:32)

Mark 13:32 But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father
If Jesus said no man knows the hour or day, then you won’t know the hour or day. It doesn’t mean there will be a pre-tribulation resurrection, or rapture take place before the great tribulation Maybe the seven year agreement will be signed under the table or behind the scenes before it comes to light before I its published to the world. So no man will know the hour or day. It doesn’t say there will be a resurrection, or rapture take place before the great tribulation

 

[peterT]

You have had the word of God put on a plate and set before you. And you did not even recognize it as the word of God.

Isaiah 30:10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

Jeremiah 5:31The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love [to have it] so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?
Luke 11:34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when [thine eye] is evil, thy body also [is] full of darkness. 35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness

Luke13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen [doth gather] her brood under [her] wings, and ye would not!35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until [the time] come when ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Isaiah53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye.

 

[Adrianv125]

Revelation 6

First Seal: The Conqueror

1 Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals;[a] and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, &#8220;Come and see.&#8221; 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 (New King James Version)

6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[a] who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

HMM. Well we know from these verses that he is in a place of authority, since he is out to conquer AND we also know that he will be REVEALED. So I don't think his revealing will happen in secret in light of these two verses. It doesn't say his helpers are out to conquer, it is obvious HE is out to conquer. So he will want to reveal himself to all the world since he is the antichrist who will want to be worshipped.

 

[peterT]

Revelation 6

First Seal: The Conqueror

1 Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals;[a] and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.” 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 (New King James Version)

6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[a] who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

HMM. Well we know from these verses that he is in a place of authority, since he is out to conquer AND we also know that he will be REVEALED. So I don't think his revealing will happen in secret in light of these two verses. It doesn't say his helpers are out to conquer, it is obvious HE is out to conquer. So he will want to reveal himself to all the world since he is the antichrist who will want to be worshipped.

Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] LIPS; but their heart is far from me.
1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion [is as] the sin of WITCHCRAFT, and stubbornness [is as] iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from [being] king

 

[Adrianv125]

hmm what are you trying to say Peter? Just say it, come straight out with it.

 

[AnandaHya]

until you can explain the identity of the 24 elders (which is already revealed in John chapter 1) which appear in chapter 4 even before the seals were opened, then you will have new insight as to where the Church is during the tribulation.

ok lets count and see if we get 24?

Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Elijah, Samuel, Deborah, David

Ok that's 24. might have gotten a few names wrong but it gives you an idea of who the 24 might be.

based it off this Bible verse:

Mark 12:26-28 (New King James Version)

26 But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?[a] 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken.”

it seems to be that Isaac, Jacob and Abraham must be ALIVE or that statement would not be true.Plus Jesus spoke to Moses and Elijah in these scripture verses.

Mark 9:3-5 (New King James Version)

3 His clothes became shining, exceedingly white, like snow, such as no launderer on earth can whiten them. 4 And Elijah appeared to them with Moses, and they were talking with Jesus. 5 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Rabbi, it is good for us to be here; and let us make three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah”—

therefore since the 24 are called the elders, perhaps it means they are the ELDERS of the nation Israel who revealed God's message to the lost and sinful world?

 

[AnandaHya]

ummm verses don't line up. try these two


2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 (New King James Version)

6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[a] who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.


Revelation 6:7-8 (New King James Version)

Fourth Seal: Widespread Death on Earth


7 When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, &#8220;Come and see.&#8221; 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.

white horse?

Revelation 6:2
And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

Revelation 19:11
[ Christ on a White Horse ] Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.

Revelation 19:14
And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.

i suggest you revise who you think is riding the white horse.

respectfully submitted

 

[peterT]

hmm what are you trying to say Peter? Just say it, come straight out with it.

Rv20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in THE FIRST RESURRECTION:

THE FIRST RESURRECTION

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. 14 The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe cometh quickly. 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

OR is this the THE FIRST RESURRECTION ?

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed

 

[peterT]

hmm what are you trying to say Peter? Just say it, come straight out with it.

Pre-tribulation believers Christians have gone a whoring and are in bed with the false prophets

They prefer the lie rather than the truth

They have hardened their hearts, and the word of God has non effect on them.

They hold to the tradition of men rather than hold to the word of God

This people are a stiff necked people and resist the Holy Ghost

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye.

1 Corinthians 5:6 Your glorying [is] not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened.

Matthew 16:11 - that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?

Matthew 5:13 Ye are the SALT of the earth: but if the SALT have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be SALTed? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

 

[Adrianv125]

I don't resist the Holy Spirit. I don't hold to the tradition of no man. I seek the truth in scripture without a pre biased opinion, and have found by myself in scripture that pre trib rapture is simply the right doctrine, I will not go on further explaining why I have come to that conclusion, even though it is evidently taught from genesis to revelation, because you seem to think you are so right even when loads of scripture are being laid out right in front of you supporting it. I see many errors in your interpretation of scripture that are not just according to the pre tribulation rapture, but to the scripture itself. But worst of all your attitude and opinion about other brothers in Christ (anyone who confesses Jesus to be their Lord is your brother). You say we lack of the Holy Spirit and have gone "whoring and are in bed with false prophets"? I really don't understand why you say that at all. But what I know is out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, and out of your mouth I see no words of love and edification, rather just the opposite. YOU are offending many people. And lets just say that your "doctrine" was right...Do you really think Jesus would want you to "correct" others in this manner? I know for sure He wouldn't. He would want you to do it in love and in prayer. Rather I see your "correction" to be in judgement and self righteousness. I really hope the Holy Spirit convicts you of this.