Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#2,081
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#2,081
John146 said:
Absolutely, God knows our hearts, our motives our thoughts.

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Click to expand...
Acts 15;18, not 8.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#2,082
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#2,082
OIC1965 said:
Acts 15;18, not 8.
Click to expand...
Agreed. We have them in Scripture, even future prophecy. These things will come to pass because God has declared it to be. These things were known of God from the beginning.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#2,083
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#2,083
John146 said:
I don’t see it in Scripture. If scripture says it, then I believe it. I try not to read any preconceived beliefs into scripture.
Click to expand...
Ephesians 1:4-5

Romans 8:29-30

Isaiah 44:7- one of the evidences that God gives that there is no one like Him, is that He knows and can declare the future. Are you going to put limitations on this Divine Perfection?

Isaiah 46:9-10

Isaiah 41:23
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#2,084
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#2,084
OIC1965 said:
Ephesians 1:4-5

Romans 8:29-30

Isaiah 44:7- one of the evidences that God gives that there is no one like Him, is that He knows and can declare the future. Are you going to put limitations on this Divine Perfection?

Isaiah 46:9-10

Isaiah 41:23
Click to expand...
God can and has declared the future. It’s called prophecy. The things He has declared will take place.
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#2,085
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#2,085
John146 said:
God can and has declared the future. It’s called prophecy. The things He has declared will take place.
Click to expand...
So you don’t think God knows who’s going to be saved and who’s not, until they get saved or die lost

That’s limiting God.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#2,087
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#2,087
OIC1965 said:
So you don’t think God knows who’s going to be saved and who’s not, until they get saved or die lost

That’s limiting God.
Click to expand...
The authority is the scriptures not our philosophy about God .
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#2,088
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#2,088
OIC1965 said:
Keep reading.
Click to expand...
1¶Behold my servant, ( service ) whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles( Service)
This is what 'elect 'means .
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#2,089
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#2,089
throughfaith said:
The authority is the scriptures not our philosophy about God .
Click to expand...
I gave several scriptures to John 14:6. And you said you weren’t an open theist. To say that God has limited foreknowledge is open theism.
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#2,090
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#2,090
throughfaith said:
1¶Behold my servant, ( service ) whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles( Service)
This is what 'elect 'means .
Click to expand...
That’s what elect means in 1 Peter 1:2 also?
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#2,091
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#2,091
throughfaith said:
Before the foundation of the world . God chose to be the case .
Click to expand...
Yes. God God could see the future before the fpundation of the world, just as He can now. If He couldn’t, that would amount to Him learning new things and increasing in knowledge.

Does God increase in knowledge? That would imply imperfection in knowledge. Which is open theism

So you are correct. God foreknew all things from eternity past.
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#2,092
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#2,092
OIC1965 said:
Yes. God God could see the future before the fpundation of the world, just as He can now. If He couldn’t, that would amount to Him learning new things and increasing in knowledge.

Does God increase in knowledge? That would imply imperfection in knowledge. Which is open theism

So you are correct. God foreknew all things from eternity past.
Click to expand...
And if God has perfect foreknowledge of all things, that includes those He will adopt.

The knowledge in Gal. 4 is speaking of relationship. Not the same thing that I’m talking about.
 
LJ84

LJ84

New member
#2,093
Dec 9, 2020
6
2
3
#2,093
Nehemiah6 said:
This is PATENTLY FALSE since you know nothing about the inner workings of God Questions.

Furthermore you are sitting in judgment over others, when you yourself have a very shaky foundation, hopping back and forth between the Old and New Covenant. Even though this is off-topic, a word to the wise should be sufficient.
Click to expand...
I agree
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#2,095
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#2,095
OIC1965 said:
I gave several scriptures to John 14:6. And you said you weren’t an open theist. To say that God has limited foreknowledge is open theism.
Click to expand...
I haven't said anything about ' limited knowledge ' ect . I'm bound by what is revealed in the scriptures ,and trying to avoid speculation and assumptions.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#2,096
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#2,096
OIC1965 said:
That’s what elect means in 1 Peter 1:2 also?
Click to expand...
If its Israel, Jews, individuals, whoever is being addressed its not ' to salvation ' ,but to service and purpose . I don't see anywhere that elect means ' to be converted'
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#2,097
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#2,097
OIC1965 said:
Yes. God God could see the future before the fpundation of the world, just as He can now. If He couldn’t, that would amount to Him learning new things and increasing in knowledge.

Does God increase in knowledge? That would imply imperfection in knowledge. Which is open theism

So you are correct. God foreknew all things from eternity past.
Click to expand...
I don't think we have a scripture which says that . It says God chose to predestine those in Christ to the future adoption. Rom 8 .23 . I see Jesus as the elect, preexisting one before the foundation of the world . He was there . God purposed that those in Christ would recieve all spiritual blessings in him .
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#2,098
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#2,098
OIC1965 said:
Yes. God God could see the future before the fpundation of the world, just as He can now. If He couldn’t, that would amount to Him learning new things and increasing in knowledge.

Does God increase in knowledge? That would imply imperfection in knowledge. Which is open theism

So you are correct. God foreknew all things from eternity past.
Click to expand...
God does not need to doubt the plan . Jesus would not fail . The Holy Spirit did not fail . Millions of People believe . As God planned would happen . People would believe.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#2,099
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#2,099
OIC1965 said:
Yes. God God could see the future before the fpundation of the world, just as He can now. If He couldn’t, that would amount to Him learning new things and increasing in knowledge.

Does God increase in knowledge? That would imply imperfection in knowledge. Which is open theism

So you are correct. God foreknew all things from eternity past.
Click to expand...
Surely without going into philosophy and speculation, its clear we didn't exist before the foundation. But obviously Jesus did . From this we can see that we need to be born first before we have the option to choose God ?
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#2,100
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#2,100
throughfaith said:
I haven't said anything about ' limited knowledge ' ect . I'm bound by what is revealed in the scriptures ,and trying to avoid speculation and assumptions.
Click to expand...
Isaiah chapters 40-48

Now, if God knows infallibly the future, it follows He knows what He is going to do.

How can God know infallibly what He will do, if He hasn’t chosen/elected to do it yet?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.