New Age: New Apostolic Reformation

[zone]

17th Century Mystic Jane Leade Prophesies of a Coming Elite Church



One of the problems that attended the Reformation was the presence of “enthusiasts” who claimed direct revelation from God. The Reformers universally condemned such persons and movements, but that did not deter them from gaining followers. One who arose a century after the Reformation and who continues to have followers was an English mystic named Jane Leade. Her writings are posted on the Internet by persons who have affiliations with latter day apostles and prophets. She held to a theory of church history that claimed that the seven churches in Revelation stood for seven successive stages of church history. There are some today who still teach this theory. The problem with it is that there is nothing in Revelation itself that indicates John expected his readers to understand it that way. This is a classic case of the reader determining the meaning of the Bible rather than the Spirit-inspired author.

Leade was particularly interested in the church at Philadelphia because Christ found no fault in it. She was involved in a movement called “The Philadelphian Society,” named after that church. In 1679, the Philadelphian Society and the Theosophists published a document containing a 60-point prophecy by Jane Leade (the document has her name as Lead).8 The document proposes ideas that resurfaced in 1948 in the Latter Rain movement, and, as we shall see, are still being promoted by a key Apostle-prophet of the New Apostolic Reformation.

The first several points of the prophecy are about sealed mysteries that would be revealed only to “worthy searchers.” She claimed that there was an Ark of the Testimony in heaven containing new revelations to be opened during the church age. She wrote under point 8, “The presence of this divine ark, will constitute the Philadelphian Church, and wherever that is, there must the ark of necessity be.” Thus the group was called the “Philadelphian Society” which published “Theosophical Transactions.”9 She goes on to prophesy of an elite church that would be beyond anything previously known. In fact this church would be a “virgin” that would give birth to the “son” mentioned in Revelation 12:5:

14. Of the stem of DAVID, a virgin church, which hath known nothing of man or of human constitution, is yet to be born. 15. And if it be yet to be born, then it will require some considerable time before it gets out of its minority, and arrives to the full and mature age. 16. The birth of this virgin church was visionally typified to St. JOHN by the great wonder in Heaven bringing forth her first born, that was caught up to the throne of GOD 17. FOR — As a virgin woman brought forth CHRIST after the flesh, so likewise a virgin woman is designed by God, to bring forth the FIRST BORN after the Spirit, who shall be filled with the Holy Ghost and with power. 18. The VIRGIN that is hereto designed, must be as of a pure spirit, so also of a CLARIFIED body, and all over impregnated with the Holy Ghost. 19. This church so brought forth and signed with the mark of the divine name, shall be adorned with MIRACULOUS GIFTS AND POWERS beyond whatever yet hath been. . . . 23. This Catholic and anointed church must be perfectly holy, as CHRIST himself is holy; so that it may worthily bear the name of the Lord our Holiness, and the Lord our Righteousness. 24. Until there be such a church made ready upon the earth, so holy, so catholic, and so anointed, that is without all spot or wrinkle, and that is adorned as a bride to meet her bridegroom, CHRIST will not personally descend to solemnize this marriage, and present the same to his Father.​

This prophecy of a perfected church (later called the “many-membered man-child”10 ) that will be the incarnation of Christ on the earth while Christ remains in heaven sets the stage for the Latter Rain movement in the 20th Century that would make the same claims. Whether that movement got its ideas from Leade or came up with the same heresy independently I cannot say at this time. But the ideas are identical. The church must be perfected on earth before Christ can return, and this shall be accompanied with miracles and power greater that at any time in church history—including Pentecost.

cont........

 

[zone]

The Latter Rain Movement: Five Fold Ministry Elitism



At the very beginning of the 20th century a man named David Wesley Myland used the term “Latter Rain” to describe the Pentecostal revival that was going on. He allegorized Joel 2:23 that spoke of God blessing the agricultural harvest in Israel to create a theory of church history. In Israel’s agricultural cycles, there were the spring rains (early rain) and the fall rains (the latter rain). Myland used this terminology and applied it to the Pentecost of Acts (early rain) and the one he claimed was again happening at Azusa Street and elsewhere (the latter rain). The key idea of these early Pentecostals was that the gift of tongues was being restored to the church and was going to issue forth into great power to evangelize the world. But the Pentecostal movement was fraught with aberrations that soon arose—such as the Oneness doctrine that denied the Trinity. The thinking of early “Latter Rain” Pentecostals was that God was restoring the apostolic power of the early church.

Those who wanted to maintain traditional evangelical theology yet include the idea of the gift of tongues as the sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit joined together into groups such as the Assemblies of God. The Assemblies rejected the latter rain ideas and held to traditional premillennial eschatology that many evangelicals believed.

In the 1930s, a man by the name of William Branham began to preach and exhibit supernatural manifestations. George Hawtin and P. G. Hunt heard Branham speak in Vancouver and brought his ideas to North Battleford, Saskatchewan where the “Latter Rain” revival that became the New Order of the Later Rain (NOLR) actually began. A key book that was circulated at that time was Atomic Power with God Through Prayer and Fasting by Franklin Hall. A key idea that still persists is that God is continually desiring to do great and powerful miracles through the church but is unable to do so because the church has not become holy enough, desired it badly enough, has failed in numerous other ways, or lacks the faith that is necessary to precipitate these miracles. The Latter Rain has always been predicated on elitist ideas such as those of Jane Leade previously cited. They consider ordinary churches to be miserable failures that God cannot use.

In 1951, George Warnock wrote a book that became one of the most important statements of the ideas of the NOLR, The Feast of Tabernacles. The book is based on an allegorical interpretation of the feasts of Israel that has the Feast of Tabernacles standing for a glorious end-times church that would arise before Christ can return. The entire book can be read online, as it is posted by current advocates of Latter Rain theology. Warnock states a key premise that underlies the theology of the Latter Rain as well as that of the New Apostolic Reformation: “How thankful we are, therefore, that God is revealing the pattern of perfection. The Ascension gifts, the ministries in the Body of Christ—these are the means of perfecting the saints,—and as we have read, they are to remain in the Church till we all come unto unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man!” The “Ascension gifts” is a reference to the so-called “five fold ministry” of Ephesians 4:11. The idea is that the church will be perfected by the renewal of the ministries of apostles and prophets before Christ returns.

Warnock, like Myland, allegorized the rains in Israel to make them create a scheme of church history:

Joel’s prophecy, therefore, speaks of Pentecost--but it goes on to embrace the fullness of Pentecost, even the Feast of Tabernacles. God did give the former rain moderately--in the Pentecostal Age extending from the early Church until now. But here is something very unusual. Right here in the “first month” of the Agricultural Year . . . God has promised to do something most unusual; for He would give, not only the former rain which belongs to that month, but He would give the former rain and the latter rain combined!”11​

This he interpreted to mean that the Latter Rain would be characterized by far greater power and glory than what was seen in the Book of Acts. Warnock thereby set the stage for the grandiose claims that are made by the apostles and prophets of our day. It is not inaccurate to say that there is no claim so grandiose that the latter day apostles will not make it. We shall demonstrate that when we examine the writings of one of their top leaders.

Warnock also claimed, like Jane Leade, that Jesus would remain in heaven until after the church achieved elite status never before seen in church history, including that of the Biblical days:

O the immensity of these words! And what is more, Christ is going to remain right where He is at God’s right hand until there shall arise a group of overcomers who shall conquer over all God’s enemies. . . . And yet the majority of Christians are looking for a rapture any moment, when Christ is supposed to catch away a miserable, defeated, disease-ridden Church.​

Notice that ordinary Christians, in this elitist thinking, are “miserable, defeated, and disease ridden.” Supposedly we are not worthy of Christ returning for and catching us up to meet Him in the air. Echoes of Leade’s Philadelphian Society are evident here. Rather than looking for Christ’s return as the “blessed hope” of the church, elitists from Leade to Warnock, and as we shall see to the New Apostolic Reformation, are looking for the church to become the new “incarnation” of Christ, with Christ still “held in the heavens.” The hope of the church has thereby ironically become the church itself.

One of the most heretical teachings associated with the NOLR was called “the manifested sons of God” that claimed that certain elite Christians would obtain the promise of immortality (as promised in Romans 8:19) now rather than at the parousia. Warnock taught that all enemies, in which he included death, the “last enemy,” had to be conquered by the church before Christ could return: “God says Christ is going to stay right where He is until all His enemies are under His feet. And His enemies include the “last enemy,” which is Death. There must arise a group of overcomers who shall conquer and become absolutely victorious over all the opposing forces of the world, the flesh, and the Devil--before this dispensation draws to a close.” 12 The “overcomers” is another term used by the Latter Rain to describe elitist Christians who are to be distinguished from the rest of us. This is in spite of the fact that the following verse applies to all Christians: “For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world-- our faith” (1John 5:4).

One of the ironies of the Latter Rain and New Apostolic Reformation movements (the latter is merely the current version of the former as I will demonstrate) is that they hold to a “restoration” scenario in which God is supposedly progressively restoring truths lost during church history and now are being restored starting with the Reformation. But ironically, NOLR and NAR teachers constantly contradict and reject important Reformation doctrines. They want to claim the Reformation as theirs and reject it at the same time. For example, the Reformation taught the priesthood of every believer, but George Warnock of the NOLR taught an elitist “Melchizedek” priesthood that only applies to some:

The Melchizedek priesthood is a priesthood of life, and of fadeless glory. It is a priesthood of eternal fellowship and communion with Christ, and not like the Aaronic priesthood which experienced the presence of God only on a certain occasion, once in the year. . . . In the fullness of this new priesthood we shall be completely glorified, like unto Christ. But even as Christ began His priesthood on earth by interceding for His brethren--so let us begin even now to possess this glorious heritage in the Spirit, the Kingdom of God within.​

This only applies, according to Warnock, to the last day saints who have attained to this status and shall operate during the great tribulation and thus shorten it. Saints of previous generations have not had this status.

William Branham, mentioned earlier, became a key figure of the Latter Rain movement and is still revered by many. It was said that he accurately, in thousands of instances, gave detailed information about people of which he had no natural means of knowing. Interpreting this ability as “words of knowledge” (1Corin. 12), his followers were convinced that it was a sign that he was a great prophet of God. Branham claimed to have a personal angel who taught him and gave him revelations. He claimed that this angel told him that he was the Elijah who would come before the return of Christ. He also claimed to be the messenger of the Laodicean church. He is buried under a pyramid that makes that claim.13 Branham rejected the doctrine of the Trinity. Branham demonstrated one thing conclusively: that restoration movements like the Latter Rain so lust for prophets who can do signs and wonders that they will accept nearly any heresy or outrageous claim as long as it is accompanied by signs and miracles.

cont.......

 

[zone]

From the Latter Rain to NAR



Ern Baxter was a personal assistant to William Branham for several years. When the Charismatic Renewal came on the scene not long after the death of Branham, Baxter became a key leader in that movement. He eventually joined with Bob Mumford, Charles Simpson, Derek Prince, and Don Basham to become the “Fort Lauderdale Five” who published New Wine magazine. They became famous for the controversial Shepherding movement. Taking the ideas that God was currently speaking to people through extra biblical revelations, and that certain persons were more advanced than others at “hearing from God,” they began an hierarchical movement in which shepherds would “hear from God” directions for those under them and on down the pyramid.

I was involved in that movement myself in the late 1970s. The key idea was that authority came from “hearing from God.” By definition, the leader of the group I was involved with (a man by the name of Jack Winter) “heard from God.” He came armed with a cache of miracle guidance stories that he repeated to convince people that when it came to hearing from God, he was unsurpassed. Under him were shepherds who heard from God for those under them. Everything we did was under the scrutiny of over shepherds. This included every decision from whom to marry even to mundane decisions like taking trips. Although our heroes on the national level were Baxter, Mumford, and company, we needed to go no higher than Jack Winter for our final divine approval. If there were any serious complaints about this arrangement, Winter would come into town and preach a sermon on “Korah’s Rebellion” with the application that Winter was “Moses” and anyone who disagreed with him was Korah. I personally heard that sermon more than once.

The shepherding movement in general, and our local version in particular, came apart at the seams by the early 1980s. The shepherding movement, like the Latter Rain movement before it, had been discredited. But those who believed the basic paradigm of a restored, apostolic church with more power than the church in Acts never gave up their beliefs. In their minds, it was only a matter of time before the elite end-time church would arise and defeat all of God’s enemies. They dismissed the failures of previous movements on the grounds that certain leaders got off base; but they themselves had kept the dream alive.

cont..............

 

[zone]

Latter Rain Beliefs Enter the NAR



Bill Hamon was born in 1934, and according to his book, Apostles, Prophets, and the Coming Moves of God, he entered the ministry as a teenager: “At the age of eighteen, I was birthed in the restoration teaching that there are still present-day apostles and prophets in the Church. I was ordained and started pastoring when I was 19”14 That means that he was in the restoration movement and began his ministry right after Warnock published The Feast of Tabernacles. His claims, as we will show, are almost identical to Warnock’s. He too allegorized Haggai 2:9 to prove that the church at the end of the age will be more glorious than that of Acts. 15,

Hamon became involved with C. Peter Wagner’s New Apostolic Reformation at its very inception:

The National Symposium on the Post-Denominational Church convened by Dr. C. Peter Wagner at Fuller Seminary, May 21-23, 1996, was a historical occasion in God’s annals of Church history. It was prophetically orchestrated by the Holy Spirit to fulfill God’s progressive purpose of bringing His Church to its ultimate destiny. . . . The consensus of the panelists was that there are still apostles and prophets in the Church, and that there is an emerging Apostolic Movement that will revolutionize the 21st-century Church. The last-generation Church will have an Apostolic Reformation that will be as great as the first-generation Apostolic Movement.16​

With Wagner’s endorsement, Hamon brought the teachings of the Latter Rain movement into the NAR. Wagner “highly recommends” Hamon’s book on Apostles and Prophets17 and wrote the foreword to it. But Hamon’s book reiterates nearly every claim of the discredited Latter Rain movement. For example, one of the more extreme teachings of the NOLR was the “manifested sons” teaching; but Hamon teaches the same thing citing a version of the Bible that translates it “revealing of the sons”:

The whole creation is waiting for the last generation Church. The earth and all of creation are waiting for the manifestation of God’s last-day apostles and prophets and fully restored Church. “For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God” (Rom. 8:19 NKJV). When the Church is fully restored, then the saints will receive their final redemption, the immortalization of the mortal bodies.18​

Hamon claims that this has to happen before the return of Christ so the church can fulfill her role. Here is further evidence that he claims that immortal bodies will be received before the parousia (second coming of Christ): “The resurrection-translation of the saints that brings about the redemption of their mortal bodies into immortal, indestructible bodies will take place so that God can fulfill His greater purpose for and through His Church.”19

cont............

 

[zone]

Latter Rain Heresy is Renamed and Reintroduced



The differences between the Latter Rain Movement and the New Apostolic Reformation mostly have to do with terminology, not doctrine. In the 1980s, a teaching circulated amongst those who attend conferences put on by those in the prophetic movement called “a new breed of man.” The basic idea is that ordinary Christians throughout church history had been colossal failures and that God was going to fall upon certain persons by His Holy Spirit and “impregnate” them so that they could “give birth” to something entirely new. The “new breed of man” would be exalted saints with holiness and power never known before. I remember debating people at the time who were following this teaching.

Earl Paulk was a noteworthy leader in the 1980s who was involved in these teachings. Though later discredited through a series of sex scandals that are even now back in the news20, Paulk articulated the elitist ideas of the movement:

“Firstfruits” means many others like Him [Jesus] will follow. Jesus was the firstfruit of God’s incarnation, a man living out God’s perfect will. Now He says, “I want to inject life by putting the seed of the Holy Spirit in the Church. My people will bring forth life as they become the ‘incarnate Word’ on planet Earth.” I am sure this definition bothers some theologians, but the Church is “the ongoing expression” of God.21
​

So the impregnated church will become “incarnate” like Christ. This idea is exactly the one taught by Jane Leade back in 1679 as cited earlier and then also articulated by Latter Rain teachers. Paulk reiterates the idea: “The great move of God to place the Holy Spirit within us makes us become the incarnation of God.”22

Bill Hamon includes the “new breed” idea in his teachings: “The new breed of Joshua Generation apostles will move in the miraculous and definitely manifest the signs of the apostle.”23 The “Joshua Generation” is another allegory popular in this movement. The crossing of the Jordan into the promised land by Israel is allegorized to mean the triumph of the church over all enemies so as to take the land, “every place your sole treads” they claim. The “new breed” means that they are not of the same order of humans as other Christians who have ever existed. Hamon further states: “Let it suffice to say here that the new breed of apostles will be motivated by the Spirit of Wisdom.”24 The spirit of wisdom in Isaiah 11:2 is that which is distinctive of Christ. The NAR claims that Christ is coming IN the church not FOR the church. Hamon claims that he himself is one of God’s “new breed” of last-days apostles.25

Earlier, William Branham had claimed to be the Elijah who would come (Matthew 17:11). But Branham died and all things were not restored. Now Hamon has modified this claim to cover what they call an “Elijah Company”: But there is still a future fulfillment when Elijah will come to prepare the way for Christ’s Second Coming. This time it would not be just one prophet but a great company of prophets that would not only prepare the way and make ready a people, but they would RESTORE ALL THINGS.”26 This “restoration” must happen, through the church, before Christ can return: “Jesus could not leave earth until He had fulfilled all Messianic prophecies and He cannot come back to earth until the Church fulfills all restoration scriptures.”27

While rejecting the pre-tribulation rapture, teachers like Hamon do not believe their glorified, end-times church will be martyred by Antichrist but rather defeat the entire Babylonian system of the tribulation themselves! Here is his claim:

God’s holy Church apostles and prophets have a co-laboring ministry of bringing about the mighty fall of Babylon the Great. Their authority will be beyond anything we have seen in our day. . . Like Moses and Elijah, God’s apostles and prophets will prevail over all their enemies unto the end.28
​

The Bible says that God will destroy Babylon; it does not say the church will (see Revelation 18).

cont...........

 

[zone]

The Joel’s Army Heresy Reintroduced



One of the discredited teachings of the NOLR was called “Joel’s Army.” The claim was that Joel 2:1-11 predicts that the end time church will be “Joel’s Army” that will execute God’s judgments on the earth. This is another false Latter Rain teaching that Bill Hamon still propagates. Here is his claim:

The saints are being trained now in the military bases of international training centers and their local church armories. The goal is to have them taught, equipped and field trained to be the officers that lead God’s army of prophetic evangelist saints during the coming Saints Movement. They will minister under the covering and leadership of fivefold apostolic and prophetic generals who trained them. These saints will function like God’s army prophetically described by Prophet Joel (Joel 2:1-11).29​

There is nothing in Joel 2:1-11 that predicts that this army is made up of elite, end times Christians. Hamon’s allegorical method allows him to read most anything into the Scripture. He further discusses the church as an end time army:

God’s great end-time army is being prepared to execute God’s written Judgments with Christ’s victory and divine judgment decrees that have already been established in heaven. The time is set when they will be administered and executed on earth through God’s saintly army. All that is destined and needed will be activated during God’s restorational Army of the Lord Movement.30​

All of this ignores the obvious fact that the judgments poured out during the Great Tribulation as described in Revelation are direct outpourings of God’s wrath on the earth, not through the actions of the church. The “movements” that Hamon describes are not found in the Bible; he is prophesying them by his own authority with no evidence that we should believe what he is saying.

cont..............

 

[zone]

The “Kingdom Now” Heresy Reintroduced



Another “movement” that Hamon predicts he calls “The Kingdom Establishing Movement.”31 Here he makes even more grandiose claims:

The movement will not cease until all knees bow and every tongue confesses that Jesus is the true Lord God over all the earth. That does not imply that everyone who makes that confession or acknowledgement is saved. However, there will be such worldwide demonstration of God’s power over the elements, people raised from the dead, miraculous control of natural catastrophes, miraculous prophetic words and endless supernatural manifestations, signs and wonders, until everyone will have to acknowledge that there is no god like Jesus Christ, the God of gods and Lord of lords.32​

According to NOLR and NAR teachers, the kingdom of God is established by the church during history and before the parousia. Hamon writes, “Now let us begin to pray earnestly that the full dominion of His literal kingdom be established in all reality over all nations and people of the earth. . . They will pray and declare that it is time for God’s kingdom to be established over all the earth by the divine delegated authority and ministry of Christ’s Church.33

cont.......

 

[zone]

The Bible Prophesies End Times Delusion



Having seen the consistent claims spanning several centuries right up to the present that elite Christians shall arise and overcome death before the rapture, do greater miracles than those of the Biblical accounts, defeat all of God’s enemies while Christ remains “held in the heavens,” and become the virgin born, new breed of man, manifested sons, the very incarnation of God on earth, etc., let us consider what the Bible predicts about the end time. The Bible teaches none of these heretical doctrines uniformly based on allegorized Scripture, but rather teaches that massive deception through false signs and wonders would characterize the end of the age.

Jesus said: “Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. . . . For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect (Matthew 24:11, 24). He did not tell us to look for a “new breed” of “anointed ones” (christs) but warned us to avoid their deceptions. Paul predicted perilous times of sin and evil at the end of the age where men will oppose the truth by doing false signs and wonders like Pharaoh’s magicians opposed Moses (2Timothy 3:1-8). Peter predicted that false teachers would arise and seek to seduce the church by exploiting us with “false words” (2Peter 2:1-3). John warned us that in the last hour there are false “anointed ones” (antichrists). Paul tells us where this is all headed: “Let no one in any way deceive you, for it [the day of the Lord] will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,” (2Thessalonians 2:3).

Furthermore, the passages in Revelation that the elitist, NAR and NOLR apostles appropriate for themselves, do not teach the church triumphs over the world through her own efforts while Jesus is “held in the heavens.” Their interpretations are fanciful and not based on any sound hermeneutic. They allegorize the Bible because there is no way to find their ideas in the Bible if taken literally. We need to decide whether to believe what Jesus, Paul, John and Peter said in the inerrant Scripture or the prophecies of people who claim to be new apostles and prophets while simultaneously contradicting the teachings of the true apostles and prophets.

cont............

 

[zone]

Conclusion



Church history has shown that whenever new claimants to the office of apostle have arisen, so have false teachings. The teachings of many such persons today, as we have seen, are shocking in the extremity of their error. Yet C. Peter Wagner claims that churches that he terms “apostolic” in this new sense are part of the fastest growing segment of the church in the world today.34 Perhaps he is right; but if he is, this is proof of massive end time apostasy and not the revival he claims it to be.

The only binding authority in the church is that of Scripture. God does not bind us to mixture, error, or the musings of men. The false apostles and prophets of the NOLR and NAR have no power over the true, blood-bought church of God. Prophets that are less than inerrant have nothing to sell but fear: “When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him” (Deuteronomy 18:22). The grandiose claims that span from Leade, to Warnock, to Branham, to Paulk, and to Hamon have never come to pass, and they never will. There will be no virgin born, many-membered man-child, Elijah company, new breed of man, new incarnation of the Christ on earth or any other such blasphemy. The role these terms describe is that of antichrist. The true Christ will return bodily and catch his church up to meet Him in the air (1Thessalonians 4:17).

This topic was addressed in a radio series available here.

[SIZE=-1]Issue 103 - November / December 2007[/SIZE]


End Notes

Critical Issues Commentary

 

[unclefester]

Matthew 7:15
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

Matthew 24:11
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

Go figure !

Peter Wagner's
New Apostolic Reformation

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=+2][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=-1]"The New Apostolic Reformation is an extraordinary work of the Holy Spirit that is changing the shape of Christianity globally. It is truly a new day! The Church is changing. New names! New methods! New worship expressions! The Lord is establishing the foundations of the Church for the new millennium. This foundation is built upon apostles and prophets. Apostles execute and establish God's plan on the earth. The time to convene a conference of the different apostolic prophetic streams across this nation is now! This conference will cause the Body to understand God's 'new' order for this coming era." [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=+2][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=-1]"(From the advertising brochure for the National Apostolic-Prophetic Conference, Christian Outreach Centre, Mansfield, Brisbane, Australia. Feb. 2000.)[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]"

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

thank you pickles. the Holy Spirit LIVES, Heals and does miracles by GOD's promptings and purpose NOT man's and any person who claims to "call up the Holy Spirit" is not calling upon the God of the Bible but Satanic forces because GOD can not be controlled by prayers, rituals or ceremony.

The spiritual gifts are still active but they are not possession any more then YOUR Body is your possession. they are dedicated for the use of GOD, not self inflated actions and such. Money is the root of many many evils in this world.


God answers and listens to the prayers of the righteous because He LOVES us not because we deserve it or earn the right by show or flash.(we are righteous through the blood of Jesus not by our own actions) God is near the broken hearted and comforts those who mourn. He teaches the humble and makes foolish the scholars and wisemen who promote knowledge that wars against God's Holy Word. Praise God for His Grace and Mercy and Love.

Our Father Who Art in Heaven Hallowed be thy name thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us today our daily bread, forgive us our trespass as we forgive those who trespass against us. Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom the power and the Glory for ever and ever. Amen

Great word and you are exactly right. It is never about us but Him and His goodness.

 

[zone]

Go figure !

Peter Wagner's
New Apostolic Reformation

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=+2][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=-1]"The New Apostolic Reformation is an extraordinary work of the Holy Spirit that is changing the shape of Christianity globally. It is truly a new day! The Church is changing. New names! New methods! New worship expressions! The Lord is establishing the foundations of the Church for the new millennium. This foundation is built upon apostles and prophets. Apostles execute and establish God's plan on the earth. The time to convene a conference of the different apostolic prophetic streams across this nation is now! This conference will cause the Body to understand God's 'new' order for this coming era." [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=+2][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=-1]"(From the advertising brochure for the National Apostolic-Prophetic Conference, Christian Outreach Centre, Mansfield, Brisbane, Australia. Feb. 2000.)[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]"

and there you have it.

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

 

[AnandaHya]

hey zone can you post some names of good preachers to balance it out?

i know there are some out there that actually preach God's word.

Hope you don't mind. thought i'd share, it was getting lost in my mail messages
"
http://www.swordandtrowel.org/philsermons.htm

this is phil johnson...reformed, but a calvinist. i'm not especially clavinist, but it doesn't matter with most sermons.

HE IS A VERY GOOD SPEAKER.
you'll enjoy him alot.

here's a page of his on the heresies of the early church: EXCELLENT.
A Survey of Heresies by Phil Johnson

http://www.monergism.com/directory/l...aw-and-Gospel/

these guys always have good stuff.

http://kimriddlebarger.squarespace.c...ohn-macarthur/

this man has all kinds of resources and other sites where you can read sermon transcaripts, books, see charts, etc.

CPRC Audio

this one has audio and video as well as other resources


http://www.bible-sermons.org.uk/audi...of-the-church/

if i remeber correctly this is s good subject well covered.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.as...=Brian^Borgman
most of his are good - outside the camp is EXCELENT"

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

Hope you don't mind. thought i'd share, it was getting lost in my mail messages
"
Sermons :: Pastor Phil Johnson

this is phil johnson...reformed, but a calvinist. i'm not especially clavinist, but it doesn't matter with most sermons.

HE IS A VERY GOOD SPEAKER.
you'll enjoy him alot.

here's a page of his on the heresies of the early church: EXCELLENT.
A Survey of Heresies by Phil Johnson

http://www.monergism.com/directory/l...aw-and-Gospel/

these guys always have good stuff.

http://kimriddlebarger.squarespace.c...ohn-macarthur/

this man has all kinds of resources and other sites where you can read sermon transcaripts, books, see charts, etc.

CPRC Audio

this one has audio and video as well as other resources


http://www.bible-sermons.org.uk/audi...of-the-church/

if i remeber correctly this is s good subject well covered.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.as...=Brian^Borgman
most of his are good - outside the camp is EXCELENT"

Just a tip, while there are some great men of God over the centuries who were Calvinists (George Whitefield, Chareles Spurgeon, Andrew Murray) be sure to have both your bible and your unbiased history book on hand if you plan to engage in a deep study using Calvinistic sermons and sources.

For the most part, those who profess to be "reformed" are Calvinists. Over the centuries they basically hijacked the term "reformed" with litte regard to others who played an equally or even larger role than John Calvin. They've also attempted to distort church history as well because Calvinism is responsible for most (if not all) of post Reformation persecution (even martyrdom) on other Christians, especially the Puritans. Early Calvinists were every bit as bad as Roman Catholicism even to the point of holding their own inquisitions Of course, this why God birthed the 1st Great Awakening in the hearts of George Whitefield and John Wesley. God used Whitefield to get them saved and Wesley to bring sanctification into the forefront.

 

[Necto]

right necto.
so what apostolic era gift(s) do you have that you're so offended historic christianity has always known CEASED? raising the dead? extrabiblical revelation? revelation knowledge? prophecy?

in fact necto: people who get involved in seeking 'charismata' almost always end up dulled to the prompting and guidance of the Holy Spirit, and almost always end up in disaster. they end up seeking signs (only the wicked seek signs), and needing to walk by sight, not faith. lying spirits and demons love this realm.

charismatics assume cessationism means denying the power of the Holy Spirit: but ironically its those who seek the PARTIAL things, the things that would pass away who end up only knowing part of the truth. ever learning, but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth: what truth?

IT IS FINISHED.

every regenerated believer receives exactly what they need, they are fully equipped, according to the measure given by God.

All led by the Spirit are sons of God. The anointing is true and not false, and what you do not distinguish it and not know it - it's not my fault! The fact that many have begun by the Spirit, and then finished the flesh - it's inexperience. Yes, indeed, many ended badly, but we have yet to see any of them even begin to walk in the Spirit. Not many can withstand the spiritual warfare. But this does not mean that we should never begin to walk by the Spirit! If we are fearful it is a question of practical input into the kingdom. In addition, it is also a question of mentors. That is why the church without apostles and prophets can not be built!

 

[zone]

Just a tip, while there are some great men of God over the centuries who were Calvinists (George Whitefield, Chareles Spurgeon, Andrew Murray) be sure to have both your bible and your unbiased history book on hand if you plan to engage in a deep study using Calvinistic sermons and sources.

For the most part, those who profess to be "reformed" are Calvinists. Over the centuries they basically hijacked the term "reformed" with litte regard to others who played an equally or even larger role than John Calvin. They've also attempted to distort church history as well because Calvinism is responsible for most (if not all) of post Reformation persecution (even martyrdom) on other Christians, especially the Puritans. Early Calvinists were every bit as bad as Roman Catholicism even to the point of holding their own inquisitions Of course, this why God birthed the 1st Great Awakening in the hearts of George Whitefield and John Wesley. God used Whitefield to get them saved and Wesley to bring sanctification into the forefront.

i will address these MYTHS about calvin when i get time.
ridiculous when people who know nothing of the subject use easily debunked propaganda to discredit whatever biblical truths were retrieved by the Reformers.

 

[zone]

All led by the Spirit are sons of God. The anointing is true and not false, and what you do not distinguish it and not know it - it's not my fault! The fact that many have begun by the Spirit, and then finished the flesh - it's inexperience. Yes, indeed, many ended badly, but we have yet to see any of them even begin to walk in the Spirit. Not many can withstand the spiritual warfare. But this does not mean that we should never begin to walk by the Spirit! If we are fearful it is a question of practical input into the kingdom. In addition, it is also a question of mentors. That is why the church without apostles and prophets can not be built!

you're 2000 years too late: those jobs were filled: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

if you want to play with the strange fire we see today, go ahead: I KNOW WHERE IT LEADS, and it always ends badly.

 

[Necto]

You saw only the bad examples! The Church fully restore to the last time.

 

[Necto]

If there is a strange fire, then surely there is no genuine? Or is it even so the question of distinguishing? Did God not know where are calling us? Where is the sense of skill? Does God gives us something that can not berecognize ? Or you never walked in the Spirit? Did I mention that I do not see that you live in the kingdom. Here theory and theology does not work, it is entirely practical question!

 

[zone]

You saw only the bad examples! The Church fully restore to the last time.

necto.
please research the truths of this, first in scripture.
here's a sermon if you care to listen objectively, checking what is said in the scriptures.
get your bible out and follow carefully.

this is an extremely serious issue: there can only be one answer.

then look at the claims made that there will be another round of apostles and prophets > from both sides. you can always take up the position you now hold after you have thoroughly examined the scriptures.

i can only offer this to you, ultimately we all decide: there are many many resources to help you in your decision. this is just one example.

No More Prophets - SermonAudio.com

best wishes.
zone.