In the beginning

[PC123]

there are actually two creations in scripture one that we exist in now , and one that he has promised , we walk by faith in the promise as we journey through this doomed creation our attention and affection is above where the church and the promises live

Its mentioned also in Revelation 21, a new heaven and earth...
That's one reason why its possible that there was an old earth as well...
This guy explained the idea fairly well in the 4th post of this thread...

Here's the evidence;

1. Genesis 1:1 is a complete stand-alone sentence in the Hebrew. The word "creation" ("bara" - Heb.) is not used again until God made the living creatures.
2. The rest of Genesis 1 uses the word "asah" which means "to build or make out of existing materials". That means, except for the living creatures, everything done in Genesis 1:2 onward is with materials that were already in place
3. Genesis 1:2, when literally translated is; "But the earth became a chaos, and empty; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." This strongly indicates that the earth was in good order and something catastrophic happened
4. The condition of being covered by water and in darkness strongly suggests God's judgement, especially when the heavenly lights were still in place
5. The "days" (except the first Sabbath) that followed were defined by the Holy Spirit - "the evening and the morning" - 24 hours from sunset to sunset
6. God is never the author of chaos (Isa.45:18). Something else must have caused the chaos of verse 2

This view is disputed, but the most likely thing that happened is that God made the earth in good order. His first governor was Lucifer. Sometime after he became "Prince of this world", he rebelled and his rebellion caused God's judgment. But God can never look upon chaos forever. So in due course He restored the earth to pristine condition in six 24-hour-days, and set a new governor - man, on the earth to "subdue it" and then rule it. This will account for Satan's presence there. According to Job 38, the Lord made the angels before the earth because they rejoiced when God laid the foundations of the earth (v.6-7).

A few things struck a chord with me when I read that.
The prince of this world... Iv spent some time trying to understand the meaning of that and I think its the best explanation for it.
Have u thought about that much? Have u got any ideas on how and why Satan is the prince of this world?

I think on a forum like this especially about our beliefs we all are convicted and sometimes we come off as we think we’re infallible , but it’s passion and often a bit of blindness on either parties part possibly a sprinkling of pride here and there or we’re going through a growth spurt and get a little high minded but the lord knows how to put us in check he has ways to reach us each one

I like to present and discuss scripture hoping to Glean something new often just one new thought or detail sends us in a direction where we find treasures to store in our secret places

I believe that creation because it is material , produced a by product of darkness and the light itself is everything that is our savior and Lord.

I believe that Jesus was before the world ever was and he spoke and the worlds existed from what was nothing “ darkness” the bi product of good , is evil the bi product of light is dark

in order to have something be good , there needs to be a standard of contradiction or measure of what is good. The darkness is necessary for there to be light .

If we follow the 7-day thought process we get to the snake tempting Eve in the garden and some questions arise...
Was the snake Satan?
Had the war in heaven already happened along with the fall of Lucifer?
How could that have all happened in 7 days?

I was given some ideas of some possible explanations. What do u think?

 

[throughfaith]

Its mentioned also in Revelation 21, a new heaven and earth...
That's one reason why its possible that there was an old earth as well...
This guy explained the idea fairly well in the 4th post of this thread...

Here's the evidence;

1. Genesis 1:1 is a complete stand-alone sentence in the Hebrew. The word "creation" ("bara" - Heb.) is not used again until God made the living creatures.
2. The rest of Genesis 1 uses the word "asah" which means "to build or make out of existing materials". That means, except for the living creatures, everything done in Genesis 1:2 onward is with materials that were already in place
3. Genesis 1:2, when literally translated is; "But the earth became a chaos, and empty; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." This strongly indicates that the earth was in good order and something catastrophic happened
4. The condition of being covered by water and in darkness strongly suggests God's judgement, especially when the heavenly lights were still in place
5. The "days" (except the first Sabbath) that followed were defined by the Holy Spirit - "the evening and the morning" - 24 hours from sunset to sunset
6. God is never the author of chaos (Isa.45:18). Something else must have caused the chaos of verse 2

This view is disputed, but the most likely thing that happened is that God made the earth in good order. His first governor was Lucifer. Sometime after he became "Prince of this world", he rebelled and his rebellion caused God's judgment. But God can never look upon chaos forever. So in due course He restored the earth to pristine condition in six 24-hour-days, and set a new governor - man, on the earth to "subdue it" and then rule it. This will account for Satan's presence there. According to Job 38, the Lord made the angels before the earth because they rejoiced when God laid the foundations of the earth (v.6-7).

A few things struck a chord with me when I read that.
The prince of this world... Iv spent some time trying to understand the meaning of that and I think its the best explanation for it.
Have u thought about that much? Have u got any ideas on how and why Satan is the prince of this world?



If we follow the 7-day thought process we get to the snake tempting Eve in the garden and some questions arise...
Was the snake Satan?
Had the war in heaven already happened along with the fall of Lucifer?
How could that have all happened in 7 days?

I was given some ideas of some possible explanations. What do u think?

Wouldn't it be new after this one ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Its mentioned also in Revelation 21, a new heaven and earth...
That's one reason why its possible that there was an old earth as well...
This guy explained the idea fairly well in the 4th post of this thread...

Here's the evidence;

1. Genesis 1:1 is a complete stand-alone sentence in the Hebrew. The word "creation" ("bara" - Heb.) is not used again until God made the living creatures.
2. The rest of Genesis 1 uses the word "asah" which means "to build or make out of existing materials". That means, except for the living creatures, everything done in Genesis 1:2 onward is with materials that were already in place
3. Genesis 1:2, when literally translated is; "But the earth became a chaos, and empty; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." This strongly indicates that the earth was in good order and something catastrophic happened
4. The condition of being covered by water and in darkness strongly suggests God's judgement, especially when the heavenly lights were still in place
5. The "days" (except the first Sabbath) that followed were defined by the Holy Spirit - "the evening and the morning" - 24 hours from sunset to sunset
6. God is never the author of chaos (Isa.45:18). Something else must have caused the chaos of verse 2

This view is disputed, but the most likely thing that happened is that God made the earth in good order. His first governor was Lucifer. Sometime after he became "Prince of this world", he rebelled and his rebellion caused God's judgment. But God can never look upon chaos forever. So in due course He restored the earth to pristine condition in six 24-hour-days, and set a new governor - man, on the earth to "subdue it" and then rule it. This will account for Satan's presence there. According to Job 38, the Lord made the angels before the earth because they rejoiced when God laid the foundations of the earth (v.6-7).

A few things struck a chord with me when I read that.
The prince of this world... Iv spent some time trying to understand the meaning of that and I think its the best explanation for it.
Have u thought about that much? Have u got any ideas on how and why Satan is the prince of this world?



If we follow the 7-day thought process we get to the snake tempting Eve in the garden and some questions arise...
Was the snake Satan?
Had the war in heaven already happened along with the fall of Lucifer?
How could that have all happened in 7 days?

I was given some ideas of some possible explanations. What do u think?

amen to be honest the explanation you quoted from the other brother I can’t follow it it seems too intellectual I can’t follow the thought process so I can’t really comment on that part .

you know how it says “ I am going to destroy the earth utterly and create a new heaven and earth ?”

well he isn’t going to obliterate the earth entirely and re create a new universe or Planet . It will take the form of a resurrection the same earth will be cleansed with fire and “reborn “ so the same planet has always been physically forminstance when he flooded the earth

It’s sort of a pattern with God

“And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:13, 17-18‬ ‭

that was the end of their world , and he destroyed them with the earth , but the same planet was going to be restarted through Noah . Even though it says destroy the earth , it was more like a resurrection than actually destroying it completely

so what we are waiting for in the end

“Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭102:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s going to be like a death of the world and a resurrection the old order of things will not be remembered when things are Made new

satans dominion on earth is because he deceived mankind . Gid didn’t give Satan authority on earth , we did. Gid gave it to us on earth , we gave it to Satan .

Satan is a spiritual being mankind is the one who has authority on earth , Satan corrupted us and wields our dominion on earth through us

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion...
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that is the only reason Satan bothered to deceive mankind he wants the power on earth and even though we don’t realize it God gave it to mankind , Satan then infiltrated the ranks of mankind and gained dominion on earth through us because we serve his will in sin

God could stop it now but he’s trying to save us so he is allowing it and sent the gospel into the world to save those who believe , and give them a new earth to fill and dwell in person with God the father and our lord Jesus Christ

 

[Moses_Young]

God created the heavens and the earth...

What happens next... Are the 7 days literal 7 days? If so then how is it possible for Satan to already be there to tempt Eve?
Is that enough for the war in heaven and for Lucifer to be banished with 1/3 of the angels?

Also God makes the sun, moon and stars on day for. Therefore what light does he shine on the 1st day to clear away the darkness?

Maybe there is a considerable amount of time after God made the heavens and earth. The way the 2nd verse starts with "now" makes it sound like there was some time lost in between. Who knows how much time there was before then.
And i read something that suggested that this darkness at the start was evil and that God shines His light to flush it away so he can begin creating...

There are a few different beliefs on creation so let me hear them...

God created the light separately to the great lights, which were to govern the day and the night. The honour is due to God, not the sun (as still seen in sun worship to this day). Remember in Revelation, God Himself is to be the light. I think this is the reason God created the great lights on day 4.

I hold that the 7 days of Creation are literal days. If scripture had wanted to convey this message any more clearly, it couldn't have. "On the second day God [...]", "On the third day God [...]" and statements that "there was evening and morning" each day.

I think Satan tempted Eve soon after the seventh day, but there may be a disjoint with the events in Heaven. Jesus says that He saw Satan fall light a lightning bolt in Matthew, but I don't think scripture is clear when He actually saw this. Also in Job, the devil comes to Heaven with the angels to condemn Job, so if this is interpreted sequentially with the devil being cast down before causing Eve to sin, the devil is back in Heaven after he was cast down. I don't think sequential frames can be made of these events, without making a number of assumptions or knowing other information.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

God created the light separately to the great lights, which were to govern the day and the night. The honour is due to God, not the sun (as still seen in sun worship to this day). Remember in Revelation, God Himself is to be the light. I think this is the reason God created the great lights on day 4.

I hold that the 7 days of Creation are literal days. If scripture had wanted to convey this message any more clearly, it couldn't have. "On the second day God [...]", "On the third day God [...]" and statements that "there was evening and morning" each day.

I think Satan tempted Eve soon after the seventh day, but there may be a disjoint with the events in Heaven. Jesus says that He saw Satan fall light a lightning bolt in Matthew, but I don't think scripture is clear when He actually saw this. Also in Job, the devil comes to Heaven with the angels to condemn Job, so if this is interpreted sequentially with the devil being cast down before causing Eve to sin, the devil is back in Heaven after he was cast down. I don't think sequential frames can be made of these events, without making a number of assumptions or knowing other information.

do you think on another level the great light to govern the day was the gospel and the lesser light to govern the darkness is the law ?

 

[PC123]

I think Satan tempted Eve soon after the seventh day, but there may be a disjoint with the events in Heaven. Jesus says that He saw Satan fall light a lightning bolt in Matthew, but I don't think scripture is clear when He actually saw this. Also in Job, the devil comes to Heaven with the angels to condemn Job, so if this is interpreted sequentially with the devil being cast down before causing Eve to sin, the devil is back in Heaven after he was cast down. I don't think sequential frames can be made of these events, without making a number of assumptions or knowing other information.

It is possible that it was Lucifer that tempted Eve and the fall happens sometime after the events in the book of Job.

Another interesting thought is that the book of Revelation is a prophecy. That means that the fall of Satan hadn't yet occurred when John wrote the book of Revelation

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It is possible that it was Lucifer that tempted Eve and the fall happens sometime after the events in the book of Job.

Another interesting thought is that the book of Revelation is a prophecy. That means that the fall of Satan hadn't yet occurred when John wrote the book of Revelation

Revelation reveals what has been , what is , and what will be .

some things are past , some were presently occurring in johns day others rwould happen on the future , and the visions purpose was to conclude and reveal what was soon to come to pass

“I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen;
and have the keys of hell and of death.

Write the things which thou hast seen,

and the things which are,

and the things which shall be hereafter;”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Past , present and future appears in the vision here’s an example we see the beast

“And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

later were given the understanding of what the image we see of the beast means note that it involves past present and future kingdoms


“And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come;

and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we take chapter 17s explainsrikn there’s more of course but the point is that chapter 13 then is occurring over a very long period of time enough time for seven kingdoms to have successive dominion over the world because the beast is shown as one entity . It is made of past , present and future kingdoms .

there is this aspect throughout the book . If you go to Daniel there’s a lot of support for this in that Daniel saw his vision around 600 ad and johns about 95 as or so . So about 700 years had passed between the two

my point is daniels. I sion when the kingdoms rose up from the sea they are individual and they were all to come in the near future , seven hundred years later thkngs have progressed to the sixth ruler in daniels vision as he was currently ruling and the seventh had not yet come .

of you then consider world history and daniels explanation from the angel about his vision we realize Rome is part of the beast and was currently the ruling power over John when he wrote revelation the king who was

these kingdoms all have great power and authority on earth Babylon had that awhile , Greece , Persia , Rome from the time Daniel saw the beasts and John saw the beast with the same appearance now unified Babylon , Persia , Greece had come and gone from this place of great dominion over this ancient world and Rome had now been set on the throne in that place

but another was yet to come and ten with him all ruling at once for a short period of time , not a literal hour but a short unknown period the final beast will rule by wielding thier power and exerting his will on the world

Revelation is meant to shownwhwt is to come but a lot of what John saw involved the past , the present events he was enduring , which gave understanding for the conclusions that were still to come

Because God is the God who was , who is , and who is to come that heavenly vision has that aspect involved with it it’s comprehensive meant to show us what’s ahead

Ultimately the events in chapter 21

 

[Magenta]

Sometime after the creation Satan entered the earth, Eve wasn't deceived on the first day she was created. The Bible doesn't say how long they were in the garden before they sinned.
All we know is that some time after the creation of Eve, Satan entered the world and then at some point began to tempt Eve.

Well thought out. I also think that Satan most probably appeared sometime after the 7th day

You agree with a contradiction: saying we don't know how long it was before they
sinned does not jive with saying it was not on A&E's first day in the garden.

We also do not know when Satan entered the world.
Saying it was after the creation of Eve is an assumption.

*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***
I simply reflected your attitude back to you.
I am glad you saw your obnoxiousness.
Unfortunately you are too immature to own it.

 

[DavidTree]

Here's the evidence;

1. Genesis 1:1 is a complete stand-alone sentence in the Hebrew. The word "creation" ("bara" - Heb.) is not used again until God made the living creatures.
2. The rest of Genesis 1 uses the word "asah" which means "to build or make out of existing materials". That means, except for the living creatures, everything done in Genesis 1:2 onward is with materials that were already in place
3. Genesis 1:2, when literally translated is; "But the earth became a chaos, and empty; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." This strongly indicates that the earth was in good order and something catastrophic happened
4. The condition of being covered by water and in darkness strongly suggests God's judgement, especially when the heavenly lights were still in place
5. The "days" (except the first Sabbath) that followed were defined by the Holy Spirit - "the evening and the morning" - 24 hours from sunset to sunset
6. God is never the author of chaos (Isa.45:18). Something else must have caused the chaos of verse 2

This view is disputed, but the most likely thing that happened is that God made the earth in good order. His first governor was Lucifer. Sometime after he became "Prince of this world", he rebelled and his rebellion caused God's judgment. But God can never look upon chaos forever. So in due course He restored the earth to pristine condition in six 24-hour-days, and set a new governor - man, on the earth to "subdue it" and then rule it. This will account for Satan's presence there. According to Job 38, the Lord made the angels before the earth because they rejoiced when God laid the foundations of the earth (v.6-7).

Very good and thank you