Five Foolish Virgins VS Five Wise Virgins
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S
Don't take it personally. Do you understand how distracting the attention from the wedding tradition can make it incomprehensible? One must imagine hearing the parable spoken and getting the "Ah Ha! I get it" experience that would have happened as soon as it was heard. No one would have had to research the bible and spend time figuring out riddles. It was meant to be grasped immediately like a punch line in a joke is expected to be understood and a mental jogging take place upon hearing it. A parable like this is intended to teach a lesson that is immediately grasped. A "OH... I understand Now" experience.
To say "You must always watch and pray because you don't know when the Lord is going to come back" is very sound advice. But when you tell me a parable that leaves me feeling really sorry for the five foolish virgins for having missed out, I suddenly see that I could be one of those if I don't watch and pray and and this has me thinking about what I can do to MAKE SURE I am not one of them. It is a frightening and terrifying concept having been made so much more tangible in this illustration.
Add too many allegories to the details of the illustration and you are soon teaching a lesson Jesus never intended.
I know that I am up against centuries of bad hermeneutics on this parable but the lesson Jesus wanted to teach is so important it is worth clarifying over and over.
To say "You must always watch and pray because you don't know when the Lord is going to come back" is very sound advice. But when you tell me a parable that leaves me feeling really sorry for the five foolish virgins for having missed out, I suddenly see that I could be one of those if I don't watch and pray and and this has me thinking about what I can do to MAKE SURE I am not one of them. It is a frightening and terrifying concept having been made so much more tangible in this illustration.
Add too many allegories to the details of the illustration and you are soon teaching a lesson Jesus never intended.
I know that I am up against centuries of bad hermeneutics on this parable but the lesson Jesus wanted to teach is so important it is worth clarifying over and over.
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I see the foolish virgins as a christian's who lived anyway they wanted without serving really God. But then when the time comes they finally start look to ways improve they deeds as a christian's and servants of God, but in the last minute. And they fails, because they are too late for that, and they never get to know our Savior and our God, and therefor they are banished forever with those who never even claim to be a christian's.
So the clear exhortation here is that let us be ready for our Lord. Let us be ready now.
So the clear exhortation here is that let us be ready for our Lord. Let us be ready now.
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Tell it to Jesus.
He said " pray that you be counted worthy to escape the things...."
Tell Jesus what He should say.
The 10 virgin parable is that very dimension.
Worthy / NOT WORTHY.
All virgins. All 10 of them.
All had light, lamps, oil, purity, undefiled, and were watching and waiting for Jesus.
Unquestionably saved born again believers.
.....but that hurts your deal
I do realize that
Doctrines can do that.
Thank you Jesus for your bible.
Your doctrine destroying bible.
He said " pray that you be counted worthy to escape the things...."
Tell Jesus what He should say.
The 10 virgin parable is that very dimension.
Worthy / NOT WORTHY.
All virgins. All 10 of them.
All had light, lamps, oil, purity, undefiled, and were watching and waiting for Jesus.
Unquestionably saved born again believers.
.....but that hurts your deal
I do realize that
Doctrines can do that.
Thank you Jesus for your bible.
Your doctrine destroying bible.
Couple things to factor in
The foolish were not wicked, but believers.
The groom was delayed, which showcased those with abundant oil ( Holy Spirit)
The request for transfer is not evil. That is how the Holy Spirit is given in acts ( via laying on of hands).
Simon wanted a gift to wield power...not Jesus' personal indwelling and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. ( simon had a heart issue).
The " buy" is not money and the "sell" is not a merchant.
That is not how we recieve the Holy Spirit.
Components of the parable are inseparable from the meaning.
For example, in the prodigal, there are 2 brothers. 2 are in the story for a reason.
The foolish were not wicked, but believers.
The groom was delayed, which showcased those with abundant oil ( Holy Spirit)
The request for transfer is not evil. That is how the Holy Spirit is given in acts ( via laying on of hands).
Simon wanted a gift to wield power...not Jesus' personal indwelling and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. ( simon had a heart issue).
The " buy" is not money and the "sell" is not a merchant.
That is not how we recieve the Holy Spirit.
Components of the parable are inseparable from the meaning.
For example, in the prodigal, there are 2 brothers. 2 are in the story for a reason.
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They were shut out from Christ regardless. However, them calling him, "Lord Lord" is perhaps more a figure of their own "double mindedness". Might be a bit of speculation but the same thing is shown repeated in Mat 7:21-22, Mat 25;11, Luke 6:46, and Luke 13:25 which ended up with them all being locked out and the Lord not knowing them.
The comparison to the wicked was based moreso in the fact that their lamps went out and how the wicked's lamps were going to be put out and them being locked out and Jesus confirming he knew them not. I dont believe I should justify them since Jesus does not do so.
Yes, the wise and the foolish are presented to us and the wise are showcased (as you call it) with oil whereas the foolish are showcased as those whose lamps went out (unto whom) the Lord said he knew them not (Mat 25:12) whereas the Lord knoweth them that actually are his 2 Ti 2:19
So when
Mat 25:8 ... the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out
This picture agrees with oil being in the dwelling of the wise
Prov 21:20 There is treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise;
It also says, but a foolish man spendeth it up
A foolish man is used in contrast to the wise which have oil in their dwelling, but there it indicates the foolish spendeth it (the oil) up
Similarly in the foolish virgins whose lamps have gone out, the lamp of the wicked shall be put out
Proverbs 13:9... "the lamp of the wicked shall be put out".
As the "foolish" are showcased as foolish for their lack of oil, saying to the wise, "Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out"
Another example of those who would have their lamps put out, is here also
Proverbs 20:20 Whoso curseth his father or his mother, his lamp shall be put out in obscure darkness.
Shows the wise with oil and the foolish out of it and being called wise and/or foolish according to what we can similarly find in other places in scripture.
I have not stated that the laying on of hands is evil at all, its one of the principles of the doctrine Hebrew 6:1-2 Although one might not want to do so hastily as it says in 1Ti 5:22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure. Simon might be a good example for that one. And in his case, I don't believe the apostles laid hands on Simon because his particular request was evil.
I had pointed out so much showing the same by the scriptures.
We know Simon believed and was baptized and wanted the Holy Ghost for the wrong reason it shows in the text, Simon offered them money that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost and Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness
Simon (who offered money for the Holy Spirit) was told by Peter that he was in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. Which is the same word used in reference to Judas who purchased a field with the reward of iniquity in Acts 1:18 In both money was involved. In the one, money from those who valued Christ to sell out the Truth (Jesus Christ) to his betrayer Judas who in turn handed over Jesus to them for the price. In the other, Simon, was offering money to buy the Holy Spirit of truth to have the charge over such power on whomsoever he laid his hands on.
Scripture shows us that there are those who offer money for the gift of God. Apparently there are buyers out there (Judas for Jesus, Simon for the Holy Spirit). Had the apostles took the money (which they did not) only then would it make them sellers by default.
I am not sure where you are going with this one but the word "buy" is a verb, and "money" is a neuter noun just as "sell" is a verb and "merchant" is a masculine noun. I don't know where I have stated they are somehow otherwise. However, the same word buy used in Mat 25:29 is use in Mat 14:15 when the disciple wanting to send the multitude away to buy victuals for themselves. Its also the same word in Mat 21:12 when they bought and sold in the Temple (where the money changers were).
I agree, I don't think theres a gullible enough soul on this board who is so ignorant to believe otherwise (unless that persons a troll trying to get a rise out of you) ofcourse.
The incident with Simon just demonstrates for us in scripture that Simon was interested in that manner of 'transfer"( as you had called it earlier). And as depraved as that mindset is he an example of an (can be say "oiless" believer?) offering money to buy the gift of God (or the oil?) At the very least we have an example of such a buyer. Had Peter accepted it we'd have a seller also (but he rebuked doing anything like that) because that certainly was not done among the true apostles of Christ. The wise had simply pointed out that there are those at that time buying and selling what the foolish apparently needed (which is oil). I am convinced if the parable was rewritten and Simon had been named as a part of the parable he would have likely outran all the other foolish virgins to those sellers (to buy that oil) all kidding aside
I don't know what this is in reference to but feel free to share Gods reason for the number of virgins in the parable, I am all ears
Good night
The comparison to the wicked was based moreso in the fact that their lamps went out and how the wicked's lamps were going to be put out and them being locked out and Jesus confirming he knew them not. I dont believe I should justify them since Jesus does not do so.
Yes, the wise and the foolish are presented to us and the wise are showcased (as you call it) with oil whereas the foolish are showcased as those whose lamps went out (unto whom) the Lord said he knew them not (Mat 25:12) whereas the Lord knoweth them that actually are his 2 Ti 2:19
So when
Mat 25:8 ... the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out
This picture agrees with oil being in the dwelling of the wise
Prov 21:20 There is treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise;
It also says, but a foolish man spendeth it up
A foolish man is used in contrast to the wise which have oil in their dwelling, but there it indicates the foolish spendeth it (the oil) up
Similarly in the foolish virgins whose lamps have gone out, the lamp of the wicked shall be put out
Proverbs 13:9... "the lamp of the wicked shall be put out".
As the "foolish" are showcased as foolish for their lack of oil, saying to the wise, "Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out"
Another example of those who would have their lamps put out, is here also
Proverbs 20:20 Whoso curseth his father or his mother, his lamp shall be put out in obscure darkness.
Shows the wise with oil and the foolish out of it and being called wise and/or foolish according to what we can similarly find in other places in scripture.
I have not stated that the laying on of hands is evil at all, its one of the principles of the doctrine Hebrew 6:1-2 Although one might not want to do so hastily as it says in 1Ti 5:22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure. Simon might be a good example for that one. And in his case, I don't believe the apostles laid hands on Simon because his particular request was evil.
I had pointed out so much showing the same by the scriptures.
We know Simon believed and was baptized and wanted the Holy Ghost for the wrong reason it shows in the text, Simon offered them money that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost and Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness
Simon (who offered money for the Holy Spirit) was told by Peter that he was in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. Which is the same word used in reference to Judas who purchased a field with the reward of iniquity in Acts 1:18 In both money was involved. In the one, money from those who valued Christ to sell out the Truth (Jesus Christ) to his betrayer Judas who in turn handed over Jesus to them for the price. In the other, Simon, was offering money to buy the Holy Spirit of truth to have the charge over such power on whomsoever he laid his hands on.
Scripture shows us that there are those who offer money for the gift of God. Apparently there are buyers out there (Judas for Jesus, Simon for the Holy Spirit). Had the apostles took the money (which they did not) only then would it make them sellers by default.
I am not sure where you are going with this one but the word "buy" is a verb, and "money" is a neuter noun just as "sell" is a verb and "merchant" is a masculine noun. I don't know where I have stated they are somehow otherwise. However, the same word buy used in Mat 25:29 is use in Mat 14:15 when the disciple wanting to send the multitude away to buy victuals for themselves. Its also the same word in Mat 21:12 when they bought and sold in the Temple (where the money changers were).
I agree, I don't think theres a gullible enough soul on this board who is so ignorant to believe otherwise (unless that persons a troll trying to get a rise out of you) ofcourse.
The incident with Simon just demonstrates for us in scripture that Simon was interested in that manner of 'transfer"( as you had called it earlier). And as depraved as that mindset is he an example of an (can be say "oiless" believer?) offering money to buy the gift of God (or the oil?) At the very least we have an example of such a buyer. Had Peter accepted it we'd have a seller also (but he rebuked doing anything like that) because that certainly was not done among the true apostles of Christ. The wise had simply pointed out that there are those at that time buying and selling what the foolish apparently needed (which is oil). I am convinced if the parable was rewritten and Simon had been named as a part of the parable he would have likely outran all the other foolish virgins to those sellers (to buy that oil) all kidding aside
I don't know what this is in reference to but feel free to share Gods reason for the number of virgins in the parable, I am all ears
Good night
Christ was speaking to a multitude of people. His words were delivered for them to hear and understand. It was in the mix of other parables. There wasn’t some hidden complex meaning they had to extrude and analyze. The message is simple:
“Be ready and prepared continually. Everyone is responsible for their own preparations. The judgement of acceptance will be swift, and permanent.”
What can be analyzed is what it means to be prepared. That also is not difficult. Our love for the Bridegroom should be consuming. To the virgin, that is her purpose. To a follower of Christ, that is our purpose. If He said love (agape) your neighbours, then love your neighbours. It doesn’t mean have an emotional outpouring for them. Agape means be a general blessing. Help those who need it because we can. Also love God. When you love someone you want to know about them, spend time with them, share their joys and sorrows. If the only relationship you have with the Father is distant then that’s where you are, distant. If this describes you then perhaps your “oil” is low and your lamp is dim.
“Be ready and prepared continually. Everyone is responsible for their own preparations. The judgement of acceptance will be swift, and permanent.”
What can be analyzed is what it means to be prepared. That also is not difficult. Our love for the Bridegroom should be consuming. To the virgin, that is her purpose. To a follower of Christ, that is our purpose. If He said love (agape) your neighbours, then love your neighbours. It doesn’t mean have an emotional outpouring for them. Agape means be a general blessing. Help those who need it because we can. Also love God. When you love someone you want to know about them, spend time with them, share their joys and sorrows. If the only relationship you have with the Father is distant then that’s where you are, distant. If this describes you then perhaps your “oil” is low and your lamp is dim.
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S
Now here is food for thought;
6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Preaching "Behold the Bridegroom Cometh" will rouse the saints and set them about "Trimming" the lamps to increase their burning brightness like no other message. Let us preach it often.
6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Preaching "Behold the Bridegroom Cometh" will rouse the saints and set them about "Trimming" the lamps to increase their burning brightness like no other message. Let us preach it often.
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Concerning the multitude of people there Jesus contradicts that statement
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Which he also shows the prophecy of old
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Which he also shows the prophecy of old
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive
Perhaps we could both use a correction. Christ had left the multitude and was speaking to the disciples privately. I don’t think he was attempting to confuse them. He spoke several parables one after the other trying to convey many things starting in Matt 23. Perhaps reading the entire conversation would give the parable proper context.
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Mat 23 is 10 chapters later, this starts in Mat 13
Jesus went onto a ship and the multitudes were on the shore Mat 13:2 he was speaking parables from there
When the disciples came to Jesus while he spake in parables to the multitide on the shore
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Jesus continues concerning his speaking in parables here and in between
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Jesus did not leave the multitude as you stated he continues his parables and then Jesus sends the multitude away in Mat 13:36 and goes into the house where his disciples come to him here
Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Jesus went onto a ship and the multitudes were on the shore Mat 13:2 he was speaking parables from there
When the disciples came to Jesus while he spake in parables to the multitide on the shore
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Jesus continues concerning his speaking in parables here and in between
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Jesus did not leave the multitude as you stated he continues his parables and then Jesus sends the multitude away in Mat 13:36 and goes into the house where his disciples come to him here
Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
I always remember the first time I heard " Weve got to be ready " , ready for what I said ? " ready for the Lords return , weve got to be ready , or we,ll miss him " . Then I learned the fear was coming from misapllying theses verses . Its up there with " don't forsake the gathering together " , and " Endure to the end to be saved " .
Apparently the wise ones prepared to be married and the others did not. The world needs a standard pre-marriage class that all religious should attend at age 14 and up (as mature enough to digest). We are not accustomed to prepare for marriage save getting a job. That is not preparing for marriage, that should be preparing to take care of oneself. Both are to work as God commanded and shown in the famous proverb about a virtuous woman. So a wise woman would make money and the other would not for example. Apparently they also prepared their love.
Of course they are, and 5 will. That's why the bridegroom came to get them and take them to the marriage in which they get married.
Barnes:
Matthew 25:1
Then shall the kingdom of heaven - See the notes at Mat_3:2. The phrase here refers to his coming in the day of judgment.
Shall be likened - Or shall resemble. The meaning is, “When the Son of man returns to judgment, it will be as it was in the case of ten virgins in a marriage ceremony.” The coming of Christ to receive his people to himself is often represented under the similitude of a marriage, the church being represented as his spouse or bride. The marriage relation is the most tender, firm, and endearing of any known on earth, and on this account it suitably represents the union of believers to Christ. See Mat_9:15; Joh_3:29; Rev_19:7; Rev_21:9; Eph_5:25-32.
Barnes:
Matthew 25:1
Then shall the kingdom of heaven - See the notes at Mat_3:2. The phrase here refers to his coming in the day of judgment.
Shall be likened - Or shall resemble. The meaning is, “When the Son of man returns to judgment, it will be as it was in the case of ten virgins in a marriage ceremony.” The coming of Christ to receive his people to himself is often represented under the similitude of a marriage, the church being represented as his spouse or bride. The marriage relation is the most tender, firm, and endearing of any known on earth, and on this account it suitably represents the union of believers to Christ. See Mat_9:15; Joh_3:29; Rev_19:7; Rev_21:9; Eph_5:25-32.
S
I think you might have misunderstood Barnes. I am pretty sure Albert Barnes knew about the Jewish custom behind this parable. Yes the Bridegroom is coming for a bride, the church and yet this parable is not mentioning the bride herself. It is only pointing out one of the customs in the Jewish ceremony where the virgin (young unmarried girl friends of the bride) get to participate in the procession when the Bridegroom comes. They were not told when the Groom would come but when he was announced that he was coming (it was after dark) they were to join the procession of other people that were walking behind him who also had a part in this procession and they had to carry lamps that were lit. If they did not have a lamp they did not get in the procession. And they would go into a place where a feast was set up and join in the festivities. But these were not the bride. They would be like the Bridesmaids in a modern wedding. Not exactly but they were the Brides friends so that gives you an idea. The ancient Jewish wedding customs had many parts to them. Albert Barnes understood that, I have not read his commentary but I would expect him to mention it. Look up a few more commentaries. Jesus is not telling a parable about a Groom that is going to marry Ten girls at once. LOL. Come ON!!!
S
Yeah, I just checked. You have to keep reading Barnes, a little further down he states:
This was done in the evening, or at night, Jeremiah 7:34; Jeremiah 25:10; Jeremiah 33:11. Many friends and relations attended them; and besides those who went with them from the house of the bride, there was another company that came out from the house of the bridegroom to meet them and welcome them. These were probably female friends and relatives of the bridegroom, who went out to welcome him and his new companion to their home. These are the virgins mentioned in this parable.
So friends of the Bridegroom he says. Either way the point is the same. They are celebrating in the marriage festivities if they have a lit lamp otherwise they can't join the parade.
This was done in the evening, or at night, Jeremiah 7:34; Jeremiah 25:10; Jeremiah 33:11. Many friends and relations attended them; and besides those who went with them from the house of the bride, there was another company that came out from the house of the bridegroom to meet them and welcome them. These were probably female friends and relatives of the bridegroom, who went out to welcome him and his new companion to their home. These are the virgins mentioned in this parable.
So friends of the Bridegroom he says. Either way the point is the same. They are celebrating in the marriage festivities if they have a lit lamp otherwise they can't join the parade.