Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?

[Phoneman-777]

this thread is full of snares

da**ed if you and da**ed if you don't

no matter what a poster responds with, the op comes back putting words in their mouth with big 'aha'

creepy IMO

Seems you deleted a post with some "proof texts" showing the weekly Sabbath is no longer. I saw you mentioned the popular Colossians 2 passage. I hope you and others realize that Colossians 2:14-16 KJV is dealing with the ceremonial and sacrificial laws of Moses which began at Sinai and ended at the Cross, not the Ten Commandments which go all the way back to the beginning and "stand fast forever and ever", according to Psalms 111:7-8 KJV.

The things mentioned in Colossians 2:16 have to do with the "handwriting of ordinances that was against us" which was written by the hand of Moses and which Moses himself said was against them in Deuteronomy 31:24-26 KJV, and were placed outside the Ark as such.

In Leviticus 23, God called the yearly Feast Days "sabbaths" that were "besides the (weekly) Sabbath of the Lord", which is a Biblical distinction between those and the weekly Sabbath of the Lord in the Ten Commandments contained inside the Ark which were not against us, but for us, because they contain promises and blessings.

The yearly sabbaths were "shadows of things to come", while the weekly Sabbath was no shadow of anything, but was given as a memorial to Creation week and to the recreation of man's heart through the indwelling Christ.

 

[Evmur]

anyway, this is just typical of the Sabbath day adherents. Go ahead and keep it all you want.

Paul says DO NOT LET ANYONE JUDGE YOU about the Sabbath

the op likes to say people think grace means go ahead and sin, wink wink, I gotcha covered

that is not what people are saying and does not matter what the op says. we are not to let ANYONE judge us

I'm outta here. Spent way too much debating this one in the past, and I have yet to meet a Sabbath keeper that changes their mind

s'long

... you think they are in bondage ...

 

[Phoneman-777]

No I'm talking about 1) Remission and 2) Redemption.
Sins were not Redeemed until the cross . This you seem to not understand?

Again, the fact that their sins were reckoned as having been taken away though the Cross hadn't yet come to pass does not establish a different salvation for them than us.

 

[Phoneman-777]

... you think they are in bondage ...

Jesus said "If ye love Me, keep My commandments, but all you arrogantly refuse to keep them...what does that say about your so called "love" for Him?

 

[Phoneman-777]

anyway, this is just typical of the Sabbath day adherents. Go ahead and keep it all you want.

Paul says DO NOT LET ANYONE JUDGE YOU about the Sabbath

the op likes to say people think grace means go ahead and sin, wink wink, I gotcha covered

that is not what people are saying and does not matter what the op says. we are not to let ANYONE judge us

I'm outta here. Spent way too much debating this one in the past, and I have yet to meet a Sabbath keeper that changes their mind

s'long

I seem to recall Jesus telling us that those who break the commandments which includes the Sabbath and teach others to do so are called "the least", right?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Things different are not the same. Show me a verse in the NT that says " the Just shall live by his faith " and then show me a verse in the old T that says " The Just shall live by faith " . I'm noticing that things that are different you gloss over .

Are we not to exercise our faith? The two verses are saying the same thing.

 

[Phoneman-777]

//They were to look forward to Cross while being saved exactly the same way as we who look back to it.// This is false. Its just a catchy phrase that gets used over and over ,but show me one diciple who was looking forward to the cross ? Peter chopped a man's ear off to prevent it happening then denied the Lord three times after that denied the resurrection happened. Saying it was " an idle tale " No one was singing happy resurrection day outside the tomb.

Nothing false about it.
What is false is your Dispensationalist nonsense:

Please read Genesis 3:15 KJV and compare it with the words of Abraham that resonate throughout the ages: "God will provide HIMSELF a lamb" and then tell me that God's intention was not for all to trust in the Sacrifice, not the sacrifices.

You are using the flawed examples of men who were blinded by false doctrines of Jewish leaders to try and overthrow God's clear Plan of Salvation which was always faith in the coming Lamb of God.

 

[Phoneman-777]

People crave certainty , people join groups that seemingly offer this certainty. Sda , Catholicism, Jehovah witnesses, Mormons, Christadelphians , Church of Christ ,they all lure folks in with " we've got the truth, everyone else is Babylon.

Do you even realize that your Dispensationalist nonsense was invented by Darby, the man who helped spread CATHOLIC JESUIT FUTURIST ESCHATOLOGY throughout Protestantism? He is the reason for the whole "Secret Rapture" lie, and yet you criticize others for joining Catholics?

 

[Phoneman-777]

//That has zero impact on how people were saved and empowered to live righteously in the OT. They were to look forward to Cross while being saved exactly the same way as we who look back to it.// I,n the OT
No one appropriated salvation through believing the DBR . No one trusted the resurrection , no one did Rom 10.9 , No one in Hebrews 11 did this either . No one one understood the DBR ,not even the diciples until after the resurrection.

"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, between thy seed and her seed. It shall bruise thy head and thou shalt bruise his heel."

"And to thy Seed, which is Christ."

"Abraham saw my day and was glad in it" because he learned "God would provide Himself a Lamb".

Not God's fault that the same false teachers who led people to look away from the Lamb to the Law for salvation are alive an well and leading people away from teh Bible to Dispensationalism.

 

[Phoneman-777]

hahaha anyway, Dear brother Salvation is always possible until you die. I know many will say it is not possible for Hilter. Yet we do know there are those who have been turned over to Satan as Judas was. I am called to be an evangelist and have the gifts of the Holy Spirit that go with that office. I would do all I could as Jesus did to reach Judas to reach Hilter. And if he did get saved That would not remove the judgment of the law of the land. I can't worry about Hilter, Charle Mason, or Ted Bundy and taking care of CS1's walk and that is more than enough . I am sure Hitler's mother loved him even as rotten as a No, good Son of an Austrian civil servant. How many of you are liking how that came out right now? amen

Yes, but:

"There is a line by us unseen;
that crosses ev'ry path.
The hidden boundary between;
God's patience and His wrath."

https://hymnary.org/text/there_is_a_time_we_know_not_when

 

[Phoneman-777]

I agree it means not under the condemnation of the law but if you reinforce that with BECAUSE we keep His commandments you are adding to that grace

Look, the actions of a cheating husband are not the problem, but the symptom. The problem is he doesn't love her, for if he did, he wouldn't habitually cheat on her, right or wrong?

that being said, those in Christ do want to walk after Him and please Him

And what could please Him more than we NOT "crucify the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame" by falling away from God and back into the same sins from which we were once lifted?

you cite I John 3:22, but which commandments are being referred to? I suppose you think the 10, but John quotes Christ, so it does not seem like it

There is plenty of evidence that the commandments Jesus referred to was the Ten Commandments. Here's just one example:

The God of the OT said in Psalm 78:1-2 KJV that the people were to listen to the law which He spoke from His own mouth - the Ten Commandments - and then promised to come and speak to the people in parables.

Matthew 13:34-35 KJV confirms that the One Who fulfilled this prophecy was JESUS, which means the same Jesus Who spoke the Ten Commandments with His mouth at Sinai is the same Jesus Who said, "If ye love Me, keep MY commandments."

What commandments were Jesus' commandments? The Ten Commandments

 

[Phoneman-777]

no one has said that though

what people are saying, is that the grace of God through Christ is extended for forgiveness of sins, the blood of Christ being the final atonement rather than an entire system of blood sacrifice as per the OT

I have NEVER seen and never HEARD any Christian (and I am not a static person who has stayed in one place for years on end) say that we have license to sin. I also do not know who teaches that

so I suppose if you are making a case for exceptions, that is those that DO teach what you claim, you may have a case, but don't apply that condemnation with a broad brush

maybe we can find a person here in this forum who does that sort of thing? would be interesting

When people say that grace prevents the Christian who habitually sins from suffering the same fate which will befall the lost sinner who does the same thing, they are in effect saying that grace is a License to Sin...

....because a license allows a person to go free for doing the same thing that will get an unlicensed person thrown in jail.

The OSAS crowd may not like to hear this, but they certainly cannot argue against it

 

[gb9]

John said the commands were " believe in the name of the Son and love one another"

so, let's go with that.

 

[Phoneman-777]

are you saying that anyone who pokes a hole in your postulating are OSAS?

Again, I just have not come across these folks

No, I don't mind debating OSAS folks at all because every argument they make can't stand the test of Biblical scrutiny. I find that when one proposes something and I totally disprove it, they unflinchingly move on to the next argument without any rebuttal. Do you think you've got a verse which proves OSAS? Please try me

 

[Phoneman-777]

thanks for ignoring the scripture I posted with regards to how Paul says we CHRISTIANS should deal with that sort of thing

any idea how often you have just either ignored what he said or glossed over it because it inserts a major objection to your personal applications?

anyway, here is my post that you (cough cough) did not see apparently my post 383

"SophieT, post: 4569647, member: 303760"]Alas, what purveyors of this false guilt trip keep forgetting, is that Paul took care of the Sabbath day worship


Colossians 2:16, NIV: "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day."

Colossians 2:16, ESV: "Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath."

Colossians 2:16, KJV: "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

Colossians 2:16, NASB: "Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath day—"

Colossians 2:16, NLT: "So don't let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths."

Colossians 2:16, CSB: "Therefore, don't let anyone judge you in regard to food and drink or in the matter of a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day."

that's good enough for me. like some spirits once said, Jesus I know and Paul I know, but who are you?

I responded to it. If you have any questions about it, please ask.

I especially like how Colossians 2:14-17 KJV says it's referring to the law "that was against us, which was contrary to us" and then we can turn to Deuteronomy 31:24-26 KJV and read how the law which was "a witness against thee" was the one Moses had just finished writing and was placed outside the Ark, while the Ten Commandmetns written by Jesus was placed inside the Ark, one of several Biblical distinctions made between the Moral Law and the Mosaic Law.

 

[Phoneman-777]

John said the commands were " believe in the name of the Son and love one another"

so, let's go with that.

Jesus said if we love Him we are to keep HIS COMMANDMENTS which, according to Psalms 78:1-2 KJV and Matthew 13:34-35 KJV, were the Ten Commandments He spoke with His mouth at Sinai. Don't despize my prophesize, read the verses which are only a click away.

What have we learned? The commandments Jesus calls "My commandments" are the Ten Commandments and if we love Him, He wants us to keep them, according to John 14:15 KJV.

 

[gb9]

i did ask. you never answered.

does the sin nature of man die at salvation??

 

[gb9]

Jesus said if we love Him we are to keep HIS COMMANDMENTS which, according to Psalms 78:1-2 KJV and Matthew 13:34-35 KJV, were the Ten Commandments He spoke with His mouth at Sinai. Don't despize my prophesize, read the verses which are only a click away.

What have we learned? The commandments Jesus calls "My commandments" are the Ten Commandments and if we love Him, He wants us to keep them, according to John 14:15 KJV.

well, since John was with Jesus, in person, i'll go with he said the commands were.

it's called taken Scripture as written, without filtering it through a man-made religious filter.

 

[Phoneman-777]

i did ask. you never answered.

does the sin nature of man die at salvation??

Have you forgotten that I asked you a question and you answered it with this same qustion?

But, I have to ask this: why do you insist that sin is a condition from which we can't break and not a wrong choice that we freely make?

Sin is ALWAYS a choice...Satan ain't holding a gun to our heads forcing us to sin.

And with the right motivation such as a gun pointed to our child's head with the perp threatening to pull the trigger is we do "XXXXX" just one more time, what seems too tantalizing to resist in one moment becomes utterly revolting to us in the next. What makes the diff? Love for our child. What should make you OSAS burn your Licenses to Sin and just do what we all know is right? Love for Jesus. (Got that one from Joyce Meyer).

 

[Phoneman-777]

well, since John was with Jesus, in person, i'll go with he said the commands were.

it's called taken Scripture as written, without filtering it through a man-made religious filter.

John himself said, "keep yourselves from idols" -is that one of the Ten Commandments which belong to Jesus which Jesus said we are to obey if we love Him?