Evolution

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Jun 15, 2021
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Well, you're quite right, I am an Englishman but it's not my blood you smell. I am very healthy, thanks.
Or are you mixing up your references? The GIANT from Jack and the Beanstalk said that. It has nothing to do with Trolls, which live under bridges if I'm not mistaken.
Now let's get back on track, shall we?
 

DeanM

Well-known member
May 4, 2021
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Well, you're quite right, I am an Englishman but it's not my blood you smell. I am very healthy, thanks.
Or are you mixing up your references? The GIANT from Jack and the Beanstalk said that. It has nothing to do with Trolls, which live under bridges if I'm not mistaken.
Now let's get back on track, shall we?
You are the troll im referring to and I for one am done feeding you.
 
Jun 15, 2021
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Science makes predictions based on observed mechanisms. The scientific model of evolution is a theory (and clearly fallible on based on its changes over time). When used to predict the future, it basically tells us that 'kinds' of things will specialise into distinctive 'sub-kinds' that can't produce offspring outside of that 'sub-kind' (without medical intervention such as with ligers and tigons).

The question is about how this applied backwards. What are the basic "kinds"? Are tigers and lions two distinctive kinds? Or are they one kind? "beast of the earth after his kind" Is it possible that God created each kind by differentiating from a preexisting kind just as Adam was formed from a preexisting thing? Is it possible that each day in the creation story is a description of long periods of time instead of a standard day?

"For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night." - Psalm 90:4 KJV

It isn't necessary to adopt this as your own personal interpretation, but leading from scripture it is a consistent interpretation. The confusion comes when anti-Christians try to use evolution theory as a means to say "God does not exist". They have twisted what the science actually says for their own purposes.
I am with almost all the way here but Christians have to accept some of the blame. If they continue to promote anti-science silliness it's hardly surprising that many scientists get somewhat alienated.
 
Jun 15, 2021
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Interesting that you ask for evidence when your own worldview is disputed but will not accept the evidence that challenges your own worldview in favour of evolution.
Technically speaking, you've checkmated yourself.
I don't mean that in the sense of the debate we're having on this thread, rather I mean that you've cornered yourself through your own thinking processes and how this translates to your worldview.
You probably won't be able to see this though.
Good to hear a voice of reason. Have you got any thoughts on Genesis 3:20?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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I wasn't around to observe the holocaust, but I still believe it happened...because I have evidence.
I have evidence for creation from the Creator Himself. ;)
 
Jun 15, 2021
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I have evidence for creation from the Creator Himself. ;)
So you don't need observed evidence for the things you believe but you feel justified to pontificate on what evidence other people must have to justify their beliefs even though you have yourself happily and proudly said you don't feel it necessary or even desirable to learn anything about what they believe or why they believe it? I seem to detect a flaw somewhere in that logic.
 

DeanM

Well-known member
May 4, 2021
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You asked the question and now you have your answer. You can challenge that perspective or accept it as a valid interpretation.
God breathed His Spirit into Adam. What was Adam? Man, fish? Monkey? If God created man at the creation of all things it gets a bit sticky to claim man evolved billions of years after creation. Unless of course you believe the universe was created by a series of impossible accidents happening at the correct time in the correct order. Then of course yhat would question the very existance of God.
 

Unearthed

Active member
May 18, 2021
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Good to hear a voice of reason. Have you got any thoughts on Genesis 3:20?
I see time and time again people applying reason and logic to their life outside the Church, only to turn it all backwards when discussing their faith.

One guy I knew, who (ironically) is a financial advisor, basically thought that it didn't matter that the Church was running out of money "because God would provide what is needed".
That Church is now in the red and things aren't looking good.

On the issue of evolution and creation:
So many people don't believe in evolution despite the evidence because they believe it goes against their faith (which it doesn't). But then these same people will demand evidence when discussing different points of view on scripture.
They burn the wick from both ends.

As regards Genesis 3:20, what about it?
 
Jan 14, 2021
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To the “thousand years” issue, ripping a statement from its context and applying it in an unrelated context is not sound hermeneutics.
It's not out of context, either Genesis 1 is figurative or Psalm 90:4 is figurative. You can choose to interpret (hermeneutic/exegesis) that Psalm 90:4 is figurative, but it is not a necessarily interpretation. I'm not proposing that it is necessarily either case, but we cannot reduce to only one of those interpretations at the expense of the other (without further reasoning that compels one interpretation over the other).

Thomas Aquinas often approached questions in that manner: first demonstrate internal consistency of an interpretation, and then demonstrate why that interpretation is more compelling than other competing, internally consistent, interpretations. I have a lot of appreciation for that approach.

So far I agree that Gen=literal/Psa=figurative is internally consistent, but I content that Gen=figurative/Psa=literal is also internally consistent. The next question is how to demonstrate which hermeneutic/exegesis is more compelling. I am completely open to changing my mind given the right scripture, but so far I find G=F/P=L more compelling. In either case whether G=L/P=F or G=F/P=L, it does not rule out the concept of future macroevolution, the question pertains more to models that apply to past events. In the end there is no reason to commit definitively to either interpretation. One may leave it simply as a mystery if one so chooses.

To the “prediction” issue, that is speculation, not science. When one person describes speculation and another declares it as “fact”, something is seriously wrong with the picture.
The same could be said of choosing a hermeneutic/exegesis. You can declare your interpretation as fact, but ultimately it is speculative inasmuch as any science.
 

Unearthed

Active member
May 18, 2021
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Adam only gave Eve her name after the fall, up to then she had only been named "woman". What do you think this means if anything?
Genesis 3:20
"Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living".

To be honest I'm not sure that Adam giving his wife a name has anything to do with the subject of evolution.
 
Jun 15, 2021
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"For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night." - Psalm 90:4 KJV
.
Very interesting point, see also 2 Peter 3:8.
I wonder if you see more than you're letting on!
 
Jan 14, 2021
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God breathed His Spirit into Adam. What was Adam? Man, fish? Monkey?
First God creates plants, animals, beasts... Then God takes dust from the ground, forms Adam, and once Adam is in a desirable form, breathes life into his nostrils. The form exists before the breath of life was placed in Adam. It is interesting that dust from the ground would also be rich in microbial life. From microbe, to the form of man, and then a breath of life (soul). If this is an illustration of evolution from simple form to more complex, this shows that a long chain of creatures existed until a form emerged that was the perfected vessel to bear the soul. This hinges on the idea that Adam translates as mankind, and that Adam himself is a metaphor for a people.

If God created man at the creation of all things it gets a bit sticky to claim man evolved billions of years after creation. Unless of course you believe the universe was created by a series of impossible accidents happening at the correct time in the correct order. Then of course yhat would question the very existance of God.
Impossible accidents? You mean God playing pool and landing 20 billiard balls with one shot? There is no reason to believe that God could not guide an evolutionary process directly along the way either by making subtle changes that push the process to where it needs to go. There is nothing in the science that says that God had no part in the process. The science just comments on the observation that the process exists. If someone has said that science says "there is no God" they have twisted the truth and speak falsely.