2 Thessalonians 2

[OldSage]

lol yeah, I had to go back and read a few more posts to get up to speed.



Ok, I see where you're coming from. Well, you aren't wrong...Jerusalem's destruction in 70 AD was indeed wrath. But I don't think that's the only wrath being referred to. I think he was speaking generally about wrath in the 1st letter. Let me see if I can make a good argument for why.

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To set the foundation, recall what Paul explains in Romans...


Romans 1:16-18
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;


Romans 2:5-11
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well-doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.


So just like salvation is offered to all people: first to the Jew and then to the gentile...so does wrath fall upon all unrighteous people: first upon the Jew and then upon the gentile.

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Next, who is Paul talking to in his letters to Thessalonians?


Acts 17:1-4
Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:

2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.


1 Thess 1:1-4
1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;

3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.


Romans 11:5-7 [brackets mine]
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant [of Israel] according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.


So the church in Thessalonica is comprised of:

- Remnant (elected) Jews (who believe the gospel)
- Believing Gentiles (grafted in)

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...So when we're reading these letters the audience isn't exclusively gentiles OR jews, and I think the language bears this out in certain chapters. For example, in 1 Thess 2:14-17.


1 Thess 2:14-17
14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

17 But we, brethren, being taken from you for a short time in presence, not in heart, endeavoured the more abundantly to see your face with great desire.


Notice in this passage, Paul doesn't say "the wrath is come upon them (Jews) for forbidding us to speak to you (Gentiles)", rather the brethren - the audience; the "you"; the recipients of Paul's letter - are being distinguished from BOTH the Jews and the Gentiles. This is in harmony with the Almighty being no respecter of person; there are only the righteous and unrighteous.

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Hi Yahshua,
Greetings. It's encouraging to find someone who is clearly a devotee of scripture.
I agree with you on some things but I differ in the second half of your thesis.

Regarding 1 Thessalonians 2:14-17.

14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, (symphylétēs) even as they have of the Jews:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.17 But we, brethren, being taken from you for a short time in presence, not in heart, endeavoured the more abundantly to see your face with great desire.

Symphylétēs - one who is of the same people, a fellow-countryman

Actually I think Paul is talking about the Jews specifically, in Thessalonica, persecuting the church there.

Acts 17:4 Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and quite a few prominent women.5 But other Jews were jealous; so they rounded up some bad characters from the marketplace, formed a mob and started a riot in the city. They rushed to Jason’s house in search of Paul and Silas in order to bring them out to the crowd. 6 But when they did not find them, they dragged Jason and some other believers before the city officials, shouting: “These men who have caused trouble all over the world have now come here, 7 and Jason has welcomed them into his house. They are all defying Caesar’s decrees, saying that there is another king, one called Jesus.” 8 When they heard this, the crowd and the city officials were thrown into turmoil. 9 Then they made Jason and the others post bond and let them go.10 As soon as it was night, the believers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. 11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica

It is clear that there were some very bad Jews in Thessalonica who were the architects of all the trouble. And when Paul says 'even (kai) as (kathos) they have of the Jews' - lit: also according as they have of the Jews -
it is clear that the Thessalonians have suffered at the hands of unbelieving Jews, in the same way that the Churches in Judea have. If not, verse 15 - 'who' ceases to make sense. But this is academic to what you then suggest.

You said: -
'' Notice in this passage, Paul doesn't say "the wrath is come upon them (Jews) for forbidding us to speak to you (Gentiles)", rather the brethren - the audience; the "you"; the recipients of Paul's letter - are being distinguished from BOTH the Jews and the Gentiles. This is in harmony with the Almighty being no respecter of person; there are only the righteous and unrighteous. ''

No. this is incorrect. It is clearly the Jews upon who the wrath comes.

14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, (symphylétēs) even as they have of the Jews: 15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

 

[OldSage]

Now, notice how in chapter 4 Paul implores the mixed audience of believers not to behave as the Gentiles do. The unbelieving Gentiles are the point of comparison and remain so when we begin chapter 5.


1 Thess 4:1-18
Furthermore, then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.

2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

10 And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more;

11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;

12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


1 Thess 5:1-5
But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.


If chapter markings didn't exist in the original text, who are the "they" & "them" being referred to here? Well, if we're literal then it's the gentiles who say peace and safety as they're the ones Paul was just warning his audience against living as.

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So in 1 Thess 2, wrath (i.e. destruction) comes upon the Jew for their sins...and in 1 Thess 5, sudden destruction (i.e. wrath) comes upon Gentile for living Godless lives.


2 Thess 2:8 [brackets mine]
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God [Gentiles?], and that obey not [Jews?] the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 2:12 [brackets mine]
12 For as many as have sinned without law [Gentile?] shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law [Jew?] shall be judged by the law;

Okay, I see your logic here. Paul mentions the lust of concupiscence of the gentiles in Chapter 4, so in Chapter 5 the children of darkness are therefore the gentiles.
I think you really are missing the point, or points, here.

But even in plain semantic terms you are wrong I am afraid, as Paul immediately says the converse of what you are proposing.

1 Thessalonians 4 6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

So Paul is saying that the judgment comes on the church, not the gentiles!
Completely the opposite of what you suggest.

I think your idea totally misses the bigger picture anyhow.

 

[OldSage]

YOU are the one who said the words are "related" (apo stasia / apo stasis [G646 (2Th2:3)] AND apospan [G645]); but now you say that can't possibly *mean* a geographical / spatial RELOCATION / MOVEMENT even tho this is exactly how Acts 21:1 uses your word [G645] (let's be consistent, here)

Apostasia means rebellion

e.g.

Joshua 22:22 The LORD God of gods, the LORD God of gods, he knoweth, and Israel he shall know; if it be in rebellion, or if in transgression against the LORD, (save us not this day,)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Apostasia means rebellion

e.g.

Joshua 22:22 The LORD God of gods, the LORD God of gods, he knoweth, and Israel he shall know; if it be in rebellion, or if in transgression against the LORD, (save us not this day,)

I disagree that this is its ONLY definition.


I believe CONTEXT determines just "WHAT KIND" of departure is meant.


See posts I've made on this point (see esp. the last linked post, bottom paragraph):


Post #16 (different thread) - https://christianchat.com/threads/g...e-the-2nd-coming-prophecy.197951/post-4556986


Post #768 (different thread) - https://christianchat.com/threads/5...ure-by-dr-john-f-walvoord.198357/post-4536227


Post #4 (different thread) - https://christianchat.com/threads/the-key-to-the-pre-trib-rapture.198174/post-4521594


____________

Post #1644 (different thread--SEE ALSO the bottom paragraph of this post... about Heb9:8-9a "which is A PARABLE for the PRESENT TIME") - https://christianchat.com/threads/l...the-rapture-is-compelling.197095/post-4495023

 

[Jackson123]

What's it all about?

2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Verse 1 is the topic Paul address

About when second coming and our gathering with the Lord/ rapture

Paul warn not to be deceive

This warning indicate there was and lie about when rapture and second coming happen

Some people lie and say that day already come

Paul tell the truth that day not going to come before man of sin reveal or 7 years tribulation

 

[OldSage]

I disagree that this is its ONLY definition.


I believe CONTEXT determines just "WHAT KIND" of departure is meant.


See posts I've made on this point (see esp. the last linked post, bottom paragraph):


Post #16 (different thread) - https://christianchat.com/threads/g...e-the-2nd-coming-prophecy.197951/post-4556986


Post #768 (different thread) - https://christianchat.com/threads/5...ure-by-dr-john-f-walvoord.198357/post-4536227


Post #4 (different thread) - https://christianchat.com/threads/the-key-to-the-pre-trib-rapture.198174/post-4521594


____________

Post #1644 (different thread--SEE ALSO the bottom paragraph of this post... about Heb9:8-9a "which is A PARABLE for the PRESENT TIME") - https://christianchat.com/threads/l...the-rapture-is-compelling.197095/post-4495023

Of course.

NIV
for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs

All I am saying is that there is a plain vanilla meaning, accepted by good Greek scholars,
and I am just reminding everyone of it.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ Yeah, and I believe "the departure" is that "plain vanilla" (straightforward, nothing else injected into it) meaning of it. Its most "basic" meaning / definition.




[as explained also here: Post #310 (different thread): https://christianchat.com/threads/5...ure-by-dr-john-f-walvoord.198357/post-4533045 ]

 

[OldSage]

^ Yeah, and I believe "the departure" is that "plain vanilla" (straightforward, nothing else injected into it) meaning of it. Its most "basic" meaning / definition.

Exactly. The Jerusalem Church departed Jerusalem.
We are in total agreement I think.

 

[OldSage]

^ Yeah, and I believe "the departure" is that "plain vanilla" (straightforward, nothing else injected into it) meaning of it. Its most "basic" meaning / definition.




[as explained also here: Post #310 (different thread): https://christianchat.com/threads/5...ure-by-dr-john-f-walvoord.198357/post-4533045 ]

I haven't read all your posts TDW, but are you saying that 2 Thessalonians 2 and the man of sin
do not refer to the first Century, but actually are somehow future events!!?

 

[posthuman]

As for the Big Lie, here are the notes (my thoughts) that I've put together a time ago (I'm not God, so I may be wrong):

This is a remarkable set of texts where the context is disobedience and wickedness. The "big lie" that God will cause us to believe is the one where we will believe that we do not have to obey to be saved. And today's church seems to clearly be under this delusion. So, God is about to prove Himself by waking us all up in what I believe could be an instant. In the blink of an eye, our eyes and ears will be opened and the church will pull together as one body, and this will prove to the world that our God is Lord and none other. Unity has not yet taken place, but we are primed and ready for it. For we must come together very soon as God is about to Harvest this country.

The lie that God will get the world to believe, is the same lie that Satan told Adam and Eve, which is that they can disobey, and that it won’t be a problem with God. - This is the lie that we have always believed, for it is the very lie that the Devil placed upon mankind, thus it is the same lie that most "christians" live under today, that is until Christ places His Holy Hands upon our Hearts so that we can think straight.

what Satan told Woman was that eating from the tree would make her wise, & make her like God. he told her that God had lied to them, that God was keeping good things from them, that God had not really given them life. he told her that God had created them in order to keep life from them: that He is essentially a murderer.

in the wilderness the Jews said over and over, that they were better off in Egypt: that God had saved them only in order to murder them, their animals and their children.
they said that food and water and wisdom were being withheld from them by God.


'the lie' is an accusation against God. 'you will not surely die' is calling God a liar, and so is saying He hadn't saved them, but only brought them from Egypt in order to murder them in the desert.

in the garden, Satan's implication is that Woman will never truly be free & never truly be alive until she commits sin. that she should not trust God, and that it was up to her to make herself like Him. that she had no freedom, and the only way she would have freedom is through transgression.

 

[Evmur]

Evmur, when viewing Matthew 24:29-31...

CONSIDER the following two issues:



1) Re: the word "Tribe / Tribes [G5443]" (i.e. Matt24:30) -

--Post #17 - https://christianchat.com/threads/5...ure-by-dr-john-f-walvoord.198357/post-4529877

--Post #578 - https://christianchat.com/threads/support-israel-yes-or-no-and-why.198879/post-4560498

--Post #2687 - https://christianchat.com/threads/5...ure-by-dr-john-f-walvoord.198357/post-4569706

--Post #2706 - https://christianchat.com/threads/5...ure-by-dr-john-f-walvoord.198357/post-4570050




2) Re: "gathered from the four winds" / "gathered from one end of the heavens [plural] to the other [plural]" (Matt24:31; i.e. gathered from the extremities, no place left out from whence they'll be gathered... and note that it is "Israel" who's been "SCATTERED" [or 'sow[n] unto the earth'], not the Church which is His body [/us]--see Lk21:24a "and they shall be led away captive INTO ALL THE NATIONS..."; see also Ezek37:11,12-14,20-23[Rom9:26/Hos1:10-11];etc etc... ; see Isa27:9,12-13[Rom11:27] as compared with Matt24:29-31...)

--Post #2780 - https://christianchat.com/threads/l...the-rapture-is-compelling.197095/post-4558544

Ok but the Jews will not be raptured.

The church is gathered to meet the returning Lord in the clouds but the Jews are gathered to their homeland but whether the church or the Jews we are gathered for the same purpose, to save and protect them from the out pouring of God's wrath upon the ungodly.

 

[Evmur]

I haven't read all your posts TDW, but are you saying that 2 Thessalonians 2 and the man of sin
do not refer to the first Century, but actually are somehow future events!!?

Yes

... oh sorry I thought you was talking to me

 

[Runningman]

I was going by memory. Yeah, the statement begins at verse 29 but the word is in verse 30:






Surely you know that context is just as important as the words used. If I say I "died of laughter" I didn't literally cease to live because of a laugh just because I used the word "die".


Acts 20:29-31
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away [ἀποσπᾶν ; Apospan #645] disciples after them.

31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears


Surely Paul wasn't warning them night and day with tears - for 3 years - that others would arise among them to draw them away to another... geographical LOCATION !! lol C'mon.

Well said. The "falling way" is definitely a departure from the faith. You may have noticed by now that that is very inconvenient for pre-tribbers and they need it to mean something else. Fortunately, context doesn't change so it doesn't mean what they allege it says.

 

[OldSage]

Yes

... oh sorry I thought you was talking to me

Why do you think that 2T2 is futuristic Evmur?
I am curious.
Before even drilling down on the meaning, I would challenge
you first to read the two letters and note every time Paul talks of something imminent.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I haven't read all your posts TDW, but are you saying that 2 Thessalonians 2 and the man of sin
do not refer to the first Century, but actually are somehow future events!!?

Perhaps you may recall my posts in the other thread, pointing out how I see:

--what Paul references by the words "[Who...] exalteth himself above all that is called god/God, or that is worshipped" (re: "the man of sin" individual / person), I believe Paul is purposely referencing Daniel 11:36,37 (the place where the chpt breaks from speaking of A4E [thru v.35], to now be speaking of a far-future "king" [v.36 onward]... same "[another] king" that Dan7:8,11,20,21,24,25,26 speaks of ("whose look is more stout than his fellows" v.20);

--and where Dan12:1-4[6-7] "continues on" from the latter part of Dan11 (referring there to the mid-trib-and-following events--with vv.1-4 not speaking of a "bodily/physical resurrection from the dead"), and ending with the END-of-trib events spoken of in both Dan12:13 ['stand in thy lot' (i.e. be 'resurrected')] and 12:12 ['BLESSED'--corresponding to about 8 other 'BLESSED' passages speaking of the 'still-living' saints ENTERING the MK age]);

--and where Jesus' reference to the "AOD [singular / singular] spoken of by Daniel the prophet" refers to Dan12:11 (also "singular / singular")


Hope that helps you see my perspective = )

 

[OldSage]

Perhaps you may recall my posts in the other thread, pointing out how I see:

--what Paul references by the words "[Who...] exalteth himself above all that is called god/God, or that is worshipped" (re: "the man of sin" individual / person), I believe Paul is purposely referencing Daniel 11:36,37 (the place where the chpt breaks from speaking of A4E [thru v.35], to now be speaking of a far-future "king" [v.36 onward]... same "[another] king" that Dan7:8,11,20,21,24,25,26 speaks of ("whose look is more stout than his fellows" v.20);

--and where Dan12:1-4[6-7] "continues on" from the latter part of Dan11 (referring there to the mid-trib-and-following events--with vv.1-4 not speaking of a "bodily/physical resurrection from the dead"), and ending with the END-of-trib events spoken of in both Dan12:13 ['stand in thy lot' (i.e. be 'resurrected')] and 12:12 ['BLESSED'--corresponding to about 8 other 'BLESSED' passages speaking of the 'still-living' saints ENTERING the MK age]);

--and where Jesus' reference to the "AOD [singular / singular] spoken of by Daniel the prophet" refers to Dan12:11 (also "singular / singular")


Hope that helps you see my perspective = )

Here's an explanation of the Roman Imperial Cult

http://earlyworldhistory.blogspot.com/2012/03/roman-imperial-cult.html

It should help with Daniel 11

 

[Yahshua]

YOU are the one who said the words are "related" (apo stasia / apo stasis [G646 (2Th2:3)] AND apospan [G645]); but now you say that can't possibly *mean* a geographical / spatial RELOCATION / MOVEMENT even tho this is exactly how Acts 21:1 uses your word [G645] (let's be consistent, here)

lol I'm pretty consistent, but not with your strawman. If you want to continue to argue with him by all means. However, I said...

the word is "apostasia" which is a compound word of "apo" ("away from") and "stasis" (standing), to mean "drawn away from an initial state/position". Acts 20:29 uses a similar word to apostasia, "apospan" when referring to the actual deceivers who would appear within the flock to actively lead believers away from the truth.

Then said...

Surely you know that context is just as important as the words used. If I say I "died of laughter" I didn't literally cease to live because of a laugh just because I used the word "die".

So let me ask you just to be clear, in Acts 20:29-31 what ALL would you say Paul is warning the new believers at Ephesus about?

 

[OldSage]

Perhaps you may recall my posts in the other thread, pointing out how I see:

--what Paul references by the words "[Who...] exalteth himself above all that is called god/God, or that is worshipped" (re: "the man of sin" individual / person), I believe Paul is purposely referencing Daniel 11:36,37 (the place where the chpt breaks from speaking of A4E [thru v.35], to now be speaking of a far-future "king" [v.36 onward]... same "[another] king" that Dan7:8,11,20,21,24,25,26 speaks of ("whose look is more stout than his fellows" v.20);

--and where Dan12:1-4[6-7] "continues on" from the latter part of Dan11 (referring there to the mid-trib-and-following events--with vv.1-4 not speaking of a "bodily/physical resurrection from the dead"), and ending with the END-of-trib events spoken of in both Dan12:13 ['stand in thy lot' (i.e. be 'resurrected')] and 12:12 ['BLESSED'--corresponding to about 8 other 'BLESSED' passages speaking of the 'still-living' saints ENTERING the MK age]);

--and where Jesus' reference to the "AOD [singular / singular] spoken of by Daniel the prophet" refers to Dan12:11 (also "singular / singular")


Hope that helps you see my perspective = )

Daniel is pre-eminently, although not exclusively, about the events up to AD70.
Daniel 12 is also about first Century events.
Too much fake eschatology in your posts bro/sis

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Daniel is pre-eminently, although not exclusively, about the events up to AD70.
Daniel 12 is also about first Century events.
Too much fake eschatology in your posts bro/sis

Well, I've already gone over (with you, I think, over in the other threads) that the 70ad section of the Olivet Discourse (Lk21:12-24a), where it speaks of "the desolation THEREOF" (of Jerusalem) is a part of the Dan9:26b "desolaTIONS [PLURAL] are determined" that is spoken of there (but is not the "AOD [singular / singular] spoken of by Daniel the prophet" Jesus talked about in Matt24:15[21] [that is, Dan12:11]--the only other "singular / singular" reference in Daniel besides one speaking of the time of A4E [that Jesus WASN'T referencing]); this pertains to the CHRONOLOGY issues in Jesus' Olivet Discourse, I posted about...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Daniel 12 is also about first Century events.

I disagree, because of what I'd pointed out:

--Daniel 12:13 "But go [Daniel] thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest [i.e. in death], and STAND IN THY LOT [i.e. be resurrected ('to stand again' on the earth)] at the END of the days [i.e. at the END of the "days" being referenced IN THIS CONTEXT, so at the "END" of what vv.6,7,1 speak of, not to mention the day-amounts supplied in the "AOD [singular / singular]" reference (Jesus Himself spoke of) per Daniel 12:11]; Daniel did NOT "stand in thy lot" in the events surrounding 70ad. And besides that, Luke 21:32's "TILL ALL be fulfilled" must necessarily INCLUDE the "of lengthy-duration" items that v.24 had ALREADY just spoken of...