Sabbath
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I have no problem revisiting these verses... and going into what I believe is being misinterpreted about these verses (one at a time). I don't necessary have to address verses one verse at a time, but what you posted here is from three different books, three different authors and saying three different things. Plus, they are all vague statements... so to get the answer, more of the context would need to be included.
If you check my previous posts, I have addressed what I believed what was being misinterpreted for multiple other verses that have been brought up. However, nobody has done that for the verses that I brought up. So if we are going to exchange passages and our interpretations, you are going to have to start. If you are willing to do that we can have a conversation.
If you check my previous posts, I have addressed what I believed what was being misinterpreted for multiple other verses that have been brought up. However, nobody has done that for the verses that I brought up. So if we are going to exchange passages and our interpretations, you are going to have to start. If you are willing to do that we can have a conversation.
This verse is commonly taken out of context to support lawlessness, when it is actually saying the opposite of how its represented. These people being written to were Greek converts that were trying to keep the laws of the Father and being judged for it. Paul was saying not to let anyone judge you for KEEPING these laws.
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I did not ask you to address every single post, I was just saying we could exchange passages one at a time. I'm just not going to be the one answering all the questions and addressing all the scriptures while people continue to ignore the scriptures I post.
There is only a small portion of the Messiahs life in scripture, so I don't believe its logical to assume whether or not he refused to help someone on the sabbath. I would have to do more research to know what day of the week it was when he kicked the money changers out of the temple, but he definitely wasn't on board with helping them sell. You also have to remember that whether they understood it correctly or not, people around the Messiah were trying to keep the law... So they would have known that working on the sabbath was a sin and they would know better than to request help regarding work. Even now, all businesses are closed on Saturday nationwide in Israel.
In that same chapter you just posted, the Messiah makes it clear that the law is not to go away until heaven and earth disappear (Matherw 5:18). This means that "give to him who asks you" in Mathew 5:42 resides in the context of keeping law. We can pull many vague verses out of scripture and make them mean what we want it to... but without knowing the subject matter, the culture, etc. we will not get the message how it was intended.
There is only a small portion of the Messiahs life in scripture, so I don't believe its logical to assume whether or not he refused to help someone on the sabbath. I would have to do more research to know what day of the week it was when he kicked the money changers out of the temple, but he definitely wasn't on board with helping them sell. You also have to remember that whether they understood it correctly or not, people around the Messiah were trying to keep the law... So they would have known that working on the sabbath was a sin and they would know better than to request help regarding work. Even now, all businesses are closed on Saturday nationwide in Israel.
In that same chapter you just posted, the Messiah makes it clear that the law is not to go away until heaven and earth disappear (Matherw 5:18). This means that "give to him who asks you" in Mathew 5:42 resides in the context of keeping law. We can pull many vague verses out of scripture and make them mean what we want it to... but without knowing the subject matter, the culture, etc. we will not get the message how it was intended.
Nonsense!!
They had Judaizers telling them they had to keep the Law. It's kind of a 'theme' of the whole NT!
Colossians 2:14-16
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it. So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths
The context here is absolutely clear. God through Christ has wiped out the handwriting of the requirements.
THEREFORE let no one judge you over those requirements.
They had Judaizers telling them they had to keep the Law. It's kind of a 'theme' of the whole NT!
Colossians 2:14-16
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it. So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths
The context here is absolutely clear. God through Christ has wiped out the handwriting of the requirements.
THEREFORE let no one judge you over those requirements.
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You have the freedom to believe as you want, but where is the scripture that supports in this letter to these people that he was also speaking to people that did not keep or want to keep the Father's law? What makes you draw the conclusion that this letter was written to two groups of people??
Just like the Pharisees, the people of Colossae had their doctrines of men that they would judge others on:
Colossians 2:20-22
20 If you have died with the Messiah to the basic principles of the world, why are you submitting to its decrees as though you still lived in the world? 21 “Don’t handle this! Don’t taste or touch that!” 22 All of these things will be destroyed as they are used, because they are based on human commands and teachings.
In many places in scripture there is a clear distinction between the commandments of men (human commands), and commandments of God. When the word "decrees" is used in scripture it is speaking of man's law. The people of Colossae were judging the believers who were trying to keep God's law... based off of their man made laws. That is the context.
Just like the Pharisees, the people of Colossae had their doctrines of men that they would judge others on:
Colossians 2:20-22
20 If you have died with the Messiah to the basic principles of the world, why are you submitting to its decrees as though you still lived in the world? 21 “Don’t handle this! Don’t taste or touch that!” 22 All of these things will be destroyed as they are used, because they are based on human commands and teachings.
In many places in scripture there is a clear distinction between the commandments of men (human commands), and commandments of God. When the word "decrees" is used in scripture it is speaking of man's law. The people of Colossae were judging the believers who were trying to keep God's law... based off of their man made laws. That is the context.
WHY we do what we do is the spiritual component of the law. There is a big difference between God's work (E.g. healing or feeding people) and man's work.. E.g. Trying to make money to buy yourself a new tv. God's work is rooted in love, man's work rooted in self. We have six days to do mans work, we are to rest from that on the Sabbath. The money changers were thrown out of the temple for mixing the two. Money/materialistic things/things of the world should not be mixed with what is Holy (set apart) by the Father.
It all depends on what is being asked of you. Are you going to do something for your boss that you believe is immoral just because he asked? If he asks you to cheat, steal... maybe get him some drugs.... are you going to do it? Is it breaking Gods law not to it? Of course not!
You are not going to do these things simply because you believe that they are unethical.... and you should believe that. But I believe it is unethical to break any of the Fathers laws. The Father decides what's right and wrong... not our society, not the church. The Father's law is the measure of morality.
You are not going to do these things simply because you believe that they are unethical.... and you should believe that. But I believe it is unethical to break any of the Fathers laws. The Father decides what's right and wrong... not our society, not the church. The Father's law is the measure of morality.
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so there work and your work is different how?
If I have to work on yesterday it is not to make money. At the same time. I do not mock my employer and tell them I can not work on Saturday if I am required. Because in my job, I serve people. not self.
Your assuming and judging based on your belief system not on reality.
If I have to work on yesterday it is not to make money. At the same time. I do not mock my employer and tell them I can not work on Saturday if I am required. Because in my job, I serve people. not self.
Your assuming and judging based on your belief system not on reality.
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Im just now seeing this post...
Someone earlier in the thread pointed to following passage as evidence for Abraham being justified by faith ALONE and not by actions as well:
Romans 4:1-6
4 What, then, are we to say about Abraham, our human ancestor? 2 For if Abraham was justified by actions, he would have had something to boast about—though not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
4 Now to someone who works, wages are not considered a gift but an obligation. 5 However, to someone who does not work, but simply believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6 Likewise, David also speaks of the blessedness of the person whom God regards as righteous apart from actions:
"IF" you do not believe that Paul here is saying that we are justified by faith ALONE, then we do not have a disagreement. I have never stated that it was ONLY our actions that we are justified by.... My position has always been that it requires BOTH works AND faith... the physical AND the spiritual.
I also agree that works should be a "result of faith", however my position is that if the works are not there after we learn of the law, then maybe we have faith in the wrong things.
Someone earlier in the thread pointed to following passage as evidence for Abraham being justified by faith ALONE and not by actions as well:
Romans 4:1-6
4 What, then, are we to say about Abraham, our human ancestor? 2 For if Abraham was justified by actions, he would have had something to boast about—though not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
4 Now to someone who works, wages are not considered a gift but an obligation. 5 However, to someone who does not work, but simply believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6 Likewise, David also speaks of the blessedness of the person whom God regards as righteous apart from actions:
"IF" you do not believe that Paul here is saying that we are justified by faith ALONE, then we do not have a disagreement. I have never stated that it was ONLY our actions that we are justified by.... My position has always been that it requires BOTH works AND faith... the physical AND the spiritual.
I also agree that works should be a "result of faith", however my position is that if the works are not there after we learn of the law, then maybe we have faith in the wrong things.