predestination vs freewill

[fredoheaven]

Well, we have over 5,000+ Greek extant mss. and the 3-4 manuscript Kidron is saying might be the SIN-VAT, Wesccott/Hort which is the basis of the Nestle-Aland...however, this will fall to another topic if it may.

 

[Kidron]

He said 27 books of the Protestant NT are epistles. And he also said that there are only 30 extant Greek texts then changed his argument to only 30 Greek texts are authentic and used.

I am not making an argument, so, that is what you should consider.

Also, i didnt say that 30 Greek texts are "used", so that is Lie #2 you've committed today.

3.) Were the "gospels" written by those who wrote Epistles?........... so, yes, and can you separate them, for the purpose of teaching as......Gospels, vs, Epistles, vs, Apocalypse, vs, Acts of the Apostles.

Paul's letters were written before the Gospels, yet, all of the NT was written by writers, and so, it becomes "scholarship" to try to label the NT as parts.
I dont really think of the NT as "sections".....i think of it as the word of God, given by those who were there., that wrote it down.
I see it only as TRUTH and HISTORY of the eyewitnesses to Jesus.

That's how i teach it, but, if im wearing the hat of Scholarship and im giving you an exam, then sure, break it all down into sections, and label it as scholarship, does.

 

[OIC1965]

Well, we have over 5,000+ Greek extant mss. and the 3-4 manuscript Kidron is saying might be the SIN-VAT, Wesccott/Hort which is the basis of the Nestle-Aland...however, this will fall to another topic if it may.

He said we have 30 extant Greek texts. When pressed he said 30 that are considered authentic.

 

[Kidron]

Well, I guess since you stated that only 30 authentic, extant texts of Greek exist, we have a problem if they used anywhere close to 100 for the TR or the AV.

I said "manuscripts" were used to create the TR, just like manuscripts were used to create all the rest of the Greek Texts. Nestle's versions, included.

Look up "Erasmus" and discover what He used.
That should answer all your questions.

 

[Kidron]

He said we have 30 extant Greek texts. When pressed he said 30 that are considered authentic.

That's lie # 3 for you today.

I said "3 or 4" are used "to create english versions", but that 30 are "extant", .....Yet there are many more.
Then i explained that just as you have many epistles that are not used to create a NT, as they are not accepted, you have the same with many other Grk Texts, (not of the 30).

 

[OIC1965]

I am not making an argument, so, that is what you should consider.

Also, i didnt say that 30 Greek texts are "used", so that is Lie #2 you've committed today.

3.) Were the "gospels" written by those who wrote Epistles?........... so, yes, and can you separate them, for the purpose of teaching as......Gospels, vs, Epistles, vs, Apocalypse, vs, Acts of the Apostles.

Paul's letters were written before the Gospels, yet, all of the NT was written by writers, and so, it becomes "scholarship" to try to label the NT as parts.
I dont really think of the NT as "sections".....i think of it as the word of God, given by those who were there., that wrote it down.
I see it only as TRUTH and HISTORY of the eyewitnesses to Jesus.

That's how i teach it, but, if im wearing the hat of Scholarship and im giving you an exam, then sure, break it all down into sections, and label it as scholarship, does.

Correct you said 30 mss are considered authentic and 3-4 are used. But that is incorrect on both counts.

 

[OIC1965]

That's lie # 3 for you today.

I said "3 or 4" are used "to create english versions", but that 30 are "extant", .....Yet there are many more.
Then i explained that just as you have many epistles that are not used to create a NT, as they are not accepted, you have the same with many other Grk Texts, (not of the 30).

Did you not say that there are 30 extant Greek texts and when pressed did you not say you were talking about “ that are considered authentic”?

And more than 3-4 mss are used. Look at the footnotes in your Greek NT.

 

[Kidron]

Correct you said 30 mss are considered authentic and 3-4 are used. But that is incorrect on both counts.

Its accurate.

You should so a study on "western texts", also.

Its also accurate that the "text" that is most widely adopted, (Nestles) has been ruined, because this group became involved in "i hate the KJV" cult.

You should go and research all this...

And dont forget to research Acts 28 as compared to Heb 10, so that you can come to understand that Paul is the author of the "epistle" to the Hebrews.

 

[OIC1965]

Read carefully......

Slowly........

There are many many many Greek manuscripts, but about 30 are recognized as authentic, and about 3-4 are actually used to create english Bibles.
Let me explain this to you..............Look at the Canon Text.........you have slightly less then 40 epistle in the NT< but there are many other epistles, that are not used.......so, we dont consider what is not accepted.
So it is with Greek texts..

Also, i dont recall you saying "i read Greek", in a post.
did i miss it?
Can you post the number of the post where you said....."I can fluently READ Koine GREEK"???
Maybe i missed it.

Did you say that only 30 Greek manuscripts are considered authentic in the post above?

So where did I lie in post 823?

 

[Kidron]

Did you not say that there are 30 extant Greek texts and when pressed did you not say you were talking about “ that are considered authentic”?

And more than 3-4 mss are used. Look at the footnotes in your Greek NT.

30 obo are considered "extant" tho none are considered "originals", as there is no such thing as the "original greek NT", as all are copies of copies.
3-4 are used to create new bibles., unless you are talking about what created the Catholic english version.
Nestle's is still #1,.. and its now a mess, because this group became a "i hate the KJV" cult.

 

[OIC1965]

Its accurate.

You should so a study on "western texts", also.

Its also accurate that the "text" that is most widely adopted, (Nestles) has been ruined, because this group became involved in "i hate the KJV" cult.

You should go and research all this...

And dont forget to research Acts 28 as compared to Heb 10, so that you can come to understand that Paul is the author of the "epistle" to the Hebrews.

Btw, Erasmus used, was it 7 or 8, Greek texts?

 

[Kidron]

Btw, Erasmus used, was it 7 or 8, Greek texts?

Go and research it, vs guessing.

 

[OIC1965]

30 obo are considered "extant" tho none are considered "originals", as there is no such thing as the "original greek NT", as all are copies of copies.
3-4 are used to create new bibles., unless you are talking about what created the Catholic english version.

I never said anything about “originals”

So you still maintain only 30 extant Greek manuscripts? What is your source(s) for this claim?

 

[OIC1965]

Go and research it, vs guessing.

I guess 7-8 is less than 100.

But I thought “ less than 100” was rather a strange answer.

 

[Kidron]

I never said anything about “originals”

So you still maintain only 30 extant Greek manuscripts? What is your source(s) for this claim?

I have said that obo 30 are "extant", or accepted, but there are many more, if you are just doing a total count of all that exist.
See my 1st post, where i first clarified this for you, about 30 posts, ago.

of the 30, about 3-4, are used to make new bibles.

 

[Kidron]

I guess 7-8 is less than 100.

But I thought “ less than 100” was rather a strange answer.

I dont know the exact number, and im not a pretender.
So, if i gave an exact number, when i dont know it, that would be like you pretending to be a Koine-Greekk authority, when in fact you are not fluent in the language.
Im not you.
I tell the truth.

See, for me, i have to be honest, and so, i answered you honestly.
I said. "less then 100" as i know that is true, but i dont know the exact number, and im not going to pretend that i know it.
The good news is, it does not matter, as all this is your obsession, not mine.
Youve asked me the same questions in about 20+ posts..
My answers are not going to change.

......next.

 

[OIC1965]

I dont know the exact number, and im not a pretender.
So, if i gave an exact number, when i dont know it, that would be like you pretending to be a Koine-Greekk authority, when in fact you are not fluent in the language.
Im not you.
I tell the truth.

See, for me, i have to be honest, and so, i answered you honestly.
I said. "less then 100" as i know that is true, but i dont know the exact number, and im not going to pretend that i know it.
The good news is, it does not matter, as all this is your obsession, not mine.
Youve asked me the same questions in about 20+ posts..
My answers are not going to change.

......next.

Less than 100 mss is a strange answer to give when you believe in only 30 extant mss, unless you think the TR is full of errors.

And also strange, seeing you claim to be a seminary trained textual critic, and don’t know how many texts Erasmus used.

And the Critical text used a lot more than 3-4 Greek texts.

And you have no evidence that I am a pretender.

And such name calling can get you banned.

 

[OIC1965]

I dont know the exact number, and im not a pretender.
So, if i gave an exact number, when i dont know it, that would be like you pretending to be a Koine-Greekk authority, when in fact you are not fluent in the language.
Im not you.
I tell the truth.

See, for me, i have to be honest, and so, i answered you honestly.
I said. "less then 100" as i know that is true, but i dont know the exact number, and im not going to pretend that i know it.
The good news is, it does not matter, as all this is your obsession, not mine.
Youve asked me the same questions in about 20+ posts..
My answers are not going to change.

......next.

Post reported

 

[Kidron]

And such name calling can get you banned.

Now i have to report your posts that you just wrote, that lied.

You need to think before you run to the report button to try to get a mod to save you.

 

[OIC1965]

Now i have to report your posts that you just wrote, that lied.

You need to think before you run to the report button to try to get a mod to save you.

When did I say you lied.

You called me a liar several times, but I never called you a liar.

Not once.

Follow the rules, that’s all.