Matthew 24:14 vs Colossians 1:5-6

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JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#21
Jul 2, 2011
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#21
Abram who was renamed by God "Fathere of nations" or in transliteration form, Abraham, is not our Father?

There is only one Gospel. If you truly desire toundrstand the truth, study the Gospel in the evangelists, Jesus explains all well.

If you wish to remain in that cloud, stay with Paul only, but it is not of the Lord.
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#22
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
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#22
John146 said:
We must not interpret the Bible in this manner just to fit a theology. World means world whether Jesus uses the term or Paul. It’s the same word with the same meaning. In Paul’s day, the gospel of Jesus Christ had gone out into all the world, preached to every creature under heaven and gone out to all nations.
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So cosmos (world) means the same thing in every occurrence in the NT?
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#23
Jul 2, 2011
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#23
John146 said:
Absolutely! Exactly why we shouldn't preach the gospel of the kingdom during this dispensation. It was only meant for the Jews. It will be preached once again during the tribulation when Jesus is ready to return and set up His kingdom on earth in Jerusalem. The gospel of the kingdom will be preparing the Jews to receive their Messiah and promised restoration of the kingdom of Israel.
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So you believe we are nto adopted and fellow heirs with Israel? This is a grave misuinderstanding of theWord, of our Holy Father in Heaven, and of the salvation of Jesus Yeshua. Sorry. I could never follow thisas truth not from you, and not from Paul.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#24
Jun 30, 2015
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#24
John146 said:
We must not interpret the Bible in this manner just to fit a theology. World means world whether Jesus uses the term or Paul. It’s the same word with the same meaning.
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Knowing that you are KJV-only, I am not surprised at this comment. As I stated, the words translated “world” are different. Both Paul and Jesus were well aware of the meaning of the words, and chose different words intentionally because they meant different things. Insisting that they mean the same thing, on the basis of the English translation, only limits your own ability to understand the issues.
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#25
Jul 24, 2016
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#25
John146 said:
Absolutely! Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom, the promised restoration of Israel's kingdom on earth with the rightful King ruling on the throne of David.

Paul preached the gospel of the grace of God, His death, burial, and resurrection for sins. Jesus only prophesied of this to His disciples and they understood none of those things because it was hid from them.
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But Jesus did preach the way of salvation.. The difference being that the apostles at the time did not understand it.... Right??

So Jesus and Paul did not preach a different gospel if that is correct.. ??
 
M

Mindwrencher

Member
#26
Jan 9, 2014
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#26
Mindwrencher said:
Which “end” do you think it refers to? Jesus clears this up in Luke, cited below.
Mt 13: “37 And He said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the weeds are the sons of the evil one; 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the END OF THE AGE; and the reapers are angels. 40 So just as the weeds are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the END OF THE AGE.”

1 Pet 4: “7 The END of all things is near…”

Luke 21: “9 When you hear of wars and disturbances, do not be terrified; for these things must take place first, but the END does not follow immediately."
Luke 21 is the sister passage of Mt 24.
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If you put Mt and Lk together, both quote Jesus at the same occassion, Jesus says the “end” comes but not immediately.
 
M

Mindwrencher

Member
#27
Jan 9, 2014
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#27
John146 said:
Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
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If you put Mt and Lk together, both quote Jesus at the same occassion, Jesus says the “end” comes but not immediately.
 
M

Mindwrencher

Member
#28
Jan 9, 2014
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#28
Mt 24, Mk 13 and Lk 21 all refer to the same occassion.
 
M

Mindwrencher

Member
#29
Jan 9, 2014
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#29
Rev 20. “4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their foreheads and on their hands; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.”
This is where dispensationalists pick and choose how to “interpret” scripture.
Notice that in verse 4 the “beheaded” souls and those not succumbing to the “beast” come to life and reign with Jesus for one thousand years.
Dispensationalists will jump to verse 6 and insist that every christian will reign with Christ in one huge millenial reign.
But read it carefully.
The beheaded souls and those not marked by the beast are the only ones that come to life and reign in verse 4. The rest of the dead come to life AFTER the thousand year reign and that coming to life is described as the first resurrection.
Then John says that those in that first resurrection will reign with Christ for one thousand years.
Notice that the beheaded souls and those not marked by the beast simply “come to life” with no mention of having been resurrected.
So…does John indicate two separate thousand year reigns? Because he is certainly explicit that those souls mentioned in verse 4 reign for one thousand years. After which the “rest” of the dead are resurrected in a “FIRST RESURRECTION”!
And in verse 6 these rising in the FIRST resurrection ALSO reign with Christ for one thousand years AFTER the souls in verse 4 had already reigned for one thousand years.
But dispensationalists will try to fancy footwork their way out of TWO MILLENIAL REIGNS OF CHRIST.
Nice to have a doctrine like “Dispensationalism” where you can pick and choose how passages of scripture can be interpreted in obvious deference to what scripture actually says.
Problem: In Rev 20 dispensationalists cannot explain the TWO MILLENIAL REIGNS without perverting the obvious words in the scripture.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#30
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
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#30
phil36 said:
So cosmos (world) means the same thing in every occurrence in the NT?
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Where did you get this definition? The bible will define itself. I have never seen "cosmos" in the bible. What verse? Did you go outside the bible to define the bible?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#31
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
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#31
JaumeJ said:
So you believe we are nto adopted and fellow heirs with Israel? This is a grave misuinderstanding of theWord, of our Holy Father in Heaven, and of the salvation of Jesus Yeshua. Sorry. I could never follow thisas truth not from you, and not from Paul.
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We will be one day. Most of Israel has rejected Jesus Christ since His resurrection.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#32
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
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#32
Dino246 said:
Knowing that you are KJV-only, I am not surprised at this comment. As I stated, the words translated “world” are different. Both Paul and Jesus were well aware of the meaning of the words, and chose different words intentionally because they meant different things. Insisting that they mean the same thing, on the basis of the English translation, only limits your own ability to understand the issues.
Click to expand...
With this belief, you must think that we can usher in His return and the end of the world by getting the gospel to all the world...cosmos?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#33
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
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#33
Adstar said:
But Jesus did preach the way of salvation.. The difference being that the apostles at the time did not understand it.... Right??

So Jesus and Paul did not preach a different gospel if that is correct.. ??
Click to expand...
He prophesied a couple of times. The main message Jesus and His disciples preached was the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 10
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

The kingdom of heaven message was not for the Samaritans or the Gentiles. It was for the Jews. He told them to literally say, "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." Is that our gospel? The gospel of the d,b,r for sins?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#34
Jan 13, 2016
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#34
Mindwrencher said:
If you put Mt and Lk together, both quote Jesus at the same occassion, Jesus says the “end” comes but not immediately.
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when....and then the end shall come...
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#35
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
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#35
John146 said:
Where did you get this definition? The bible will define itself. I have never seen "cosmos" in the bible. What verse? Did you go outside the bible to define the bible?
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What language was the original bible written in?
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#36
Jun 30, 2015
25,484
13,785
113
#36
John146 said:
With this belief, you must think that we can usher in His return and the end of the world by getting the gospel to all the world...cosmos?
Click to expand...
The word “cosmos” in English is not the same concept as “kosmos” in ancient Greek.
 
M

Mindwrencher

Member
#37
Jan 9, 2014
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#37
John146 said:
Where did you get this definition? The bible will define itself. I have never seen "cosmos" in the bible. What verse? Did you go outside the bible to define the bible?
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He went to the Koine’ Greek. Koine’ is a dead language. It is the language of the N.T.
 
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