Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[Icedaisey]

They won't, but they've been notified.

They've been called, drawn. John 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father, who hath sent me, draw him; and I will raise him up in the last day

Romans 8:30 For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. 31What then shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?

 

[Icedaisey]

How can one have imperfect faith who solely trust in Christ alone for salvation? How can one's faith is not going to save him if he believes on him that Christ and the gospel can save? The woman in Luke 7:50, Christ said to her " Thy faith hath saved thee". Paul says to the Philippian Jailor Acts 16:31 "Beleive on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.." Such belief saves because it trusts in Christ alone.

I don't think you read them as they intended to communicate their thoughts.

Maybe remove the words in parenthesis and read again. Like so.
We are saved by Christ's faith, not by ours. Our faith cannot give righteousness to us because
would be an imperfect faith and the imperfect faith cannot give perfect righteousness. Only Christ's faith which is a perfect faith, can give perfect righteousness. A true believer's faith is
a gift to them from the Holy Spirit.

 

[fredoheaven]

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

This would be in reference to salvation and yes no one earns it, it is not our own works that we do. Salvation is always "by" grace "through" faith. "Through" signifies agency. Salvation is from God it is the gift of God and takes the grace of God through the faith operation.

 

[rogerg]

Maybe remove the words in parenthesis and read again. Like so.
We are saved by Christ's faith, not by ours. Our faith cannot give righteousness to us because
would be an imperfect faith and the imperfect faith cannot give perfect righteousness. Only Christ's faith which is a perfect faith, can give perfect righteousness. A true believer's faith is
a gift to them from the Holy Spirit.

Thank you, Icedaisey

 

[Icedaisey]

Thank you, Icedaisey

You're welcome.

 

[Icedaisey]

This would be in reference to salvation and yes no one earns it, it is not our own works that we do. Salvation is always "by" grace "through" faith. "Through" signifies agency. Salvation is from God it is the gift of God and takes the grace of God through the faith operation.

Or, as it says, by God's grace we are saved by (his giving us) faith.
Because, when we are fallen in our sins, and if we accept this verse for what it says,
the natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned, (1 Corinthians 2:14) that would then make sense of the Ephesians instruction. We, in out fallen natural state cannot accept the things that come from the spirit of God and that's why we read God has called you into fellowship with His Son Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 8:30

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Rom 10:10 says that man believes from the heart. Not that man believes from the gift that God gives to some.

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

The "your own doing" refers to salvation, not believing, if you think so.

I guess you don't want to believe Rom 10:10.

The Bible specifically describes these things as "gifts of God:
1. salvation
2. eternal life
3. indwelling Holy Spirit
4. various spiritual gifts

Fatih is nowhere found. Eph 2:8 doesn't support the action of believing as a gift.

 

[FreeGrace2]

As Roger said that's true and it is found in scripture. Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

Oddly JPT said something similar earlier and was proven wrong. So too are you thus far.

Please show me where I have been proven wrong.

So far, all you've done is give your opinion.

God saves those who believe, have faith.

1 Cor 1:21 doesn't include "have faith". So why did you add it? Just stay with what a verse says.

And we learn how that occurs, for them to believe, have faith.

Please quote any verse that says what you are claiming.

It is a gift of God. Not of our own doing.

That would be salvation. You can't save yourself.

It is God's plan to save those who believe. 1 Cor 1:21.

If salvation was because chose certain people for salvation and had to give them faith so they would believe, then man's response to God's offer cannot be a reality.

But, it SI a reality. The Bible says so.

Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

This sure doesn't sound like God went around picking and choosing who to give faith to so they would believe.

No. He offers salvation to everyone. And saves those who believe. 1 Cor 1:21. God's plan. If you don't agree, take it up with Him. I'm just sharing what His plan is.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Or, as it says, by God's grace we are saved by (his giving us) faith.

You need to remove the parenthesis because it doesn't occur in the original.

Because, when we are fallen in our sins, and if we accept this verse for what it says,

I don't accept how you twisted the verse to say what it doesn't say.

What do you do with Mark 5:34? Jesus told a bleeding woman of 12 years who touched His clothes and was healed, "your faith has saved you"?

If Jesus was a Calvinist, He would have said, "the faith that God gifted you has saved you". But He wasn't and he didn't.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Forgot this one:

[1Pe 1:21 KJV]
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

The word "by" is the Greek word διά meaning through.

It is through [Greek διά] the Lord Jesus Christ that one believes in God. The Lord Jesus Christ came to reveal the Father (John 14:8-9 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father ...)

And please note that the verse states "your faith" ... not the faith of Christ.

1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Faith has been given to every person, we misplace it in the wrong things all the time.

True statement.

That's why the question is not "do you have faith"? The question is "in what (or more precisely, in Whom) do you place your faith". That is the critical issue.

The more we place our faith in that which is not true, the worse off we are (spiritually speaking).

 

[justpassinthrough]

, I should have said the only way for that to happen is if
God has chosen to save them - a choice or a work on the part of an unsaved person does not provide salvation. A person
obeys as a result of salvation

Unsaved people must obey the Gospel in order to become saved.



But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:16





JLB

 

[justpassinthrough]

Eternal security comes from the seal of the Holy Spirit. It's the seal that's placed upon every believer guaranteeing them that the redemption is going to take place. That's the adoption according to Romans 8:23. It cannot be revoked. It's the King's seal.

Let me know when you find that scripture.

Adding your opinion to scripture and tagging it with a scripture reference won’t do it.

 

[rogerg]

t is through [Greek διά] the Lord Jesus Christ that one believes in God. The Lord Jesus Christ came to reveal the Father (John 14:8-9 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father ...)

And please note that the verse states "your faith" ... not the faith of Christ.

[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

 

[justpassinthrough]

Since you don't believe that's true, that faith and Salvation are an eternal irrevocable free gift of God, all you have to do to revoke God's word is show your counterpoint exists in scripture.

Eternal life is a gift that can not be earned.


However we must obey the Gospel to receive it.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9





JPT

 

[rogerg]

Let me know when you find that scripture.

Adding your opinion to scripture and tagging it with a scripture reference won’t do it.

[2Co 1:21-22 KJV]
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

 

[rogerg]

Unsaved people must obey the Gospel in order to become saved.



But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:16

cannot obey until saved, not before- blind, deaf, hardened heart until that occurs


[Jhn 12:37 KJV]
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

cannot obey until saved, not before- blind, deaf, hardened heart until that occurs

[Jhn 12:38-40 KJV]
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Once again

That has us born again under the penalty of sin. That Has God going agianst his own justice system

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[2Co 1:21-22 KJV]
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Yes, And when does God seal us with his spirit?


Ephesians 1:13-14
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[a] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

1. We hear the word of truth (faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God)
2. We trust the word of truth and Christ
3. We believe (faith)
4 THEN we are sealed by the spirit

 

[rogerg]

Once again

That has us born again under the penalty of sin. That Has God going agianst his own justice system

Don't know what you mean by once again?
Don't know what you mean by against His own justice system?

Those were verses from the Bible that I quoted, right? How could they then be against His justice system?