Does the end justify the means?

[ResidentAlien]

Lately, more and more, ecumenism is taking over. There seem to be several reasons given for this phenomenon, but they're all related.

1. Regardless of theological differences, we need to all unite around common societal issues, like abortion for example.

2. We need to come together and unite around conservative political candidates for the good of society.

3. We need to unite for the sake of peace and the safety of our world.

4. Uniting in solidarity will make Christianity a stronger force for good in the world.

Notice the common thread? It's all about the world.

My question is: Do the ends justify the means. What does God's word say about this? Is it okay to unite in fellowship with heretics and false teachers for the sake of a "better world?" Where did Christ ever promise us a better world? Does uniting with heresy serve to make the world a better place or to make Christianity a much worse place?

 

[Gardenias]

1Pet.2:9 But ye are a CHOSEN GENERATION, a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD,an HOLY NATION,a PECULIAR PEOPLE,that you should shew forth the praises of HIM who hath called you out of darkness into his Marvelous light:
Titus 3:14

If this is truly our standing in Christ after being born again,then we have no fellowship with darkness.

He prayed to the father to not take us out of the world but keep us from the Evil of the world.

To be a part of the great commission and spread the gospel we must bear his standard ( crest)

 

[Laura798]

Lately, more and more, ecumenism is taking over. There seem to be several reasons given for this phenomenon, but they're all related.

1. Regardless of theological differences, we need to all unite around common societal issues, like abortion for example.

2. We need to come together and unite around conservative political candidates for the good of society.

3. We need to unite for the sake of peace and the safety of our world.

4. Uniting in solidarity will make Christianity a stronger force for good in the world.

Notice the common thread? It's all about the world.

My question is: Do the ends justify the means. What does God's word say about this? Is it okay to unite in fellowship with heretics and false teachers for the sake of a "better world?" Where did Christ ever promise us a better world? Does uniting with heresy serve to make the world a better place or to make Christianity a much worse place?

HI RA,

No--it seems like the 'false prophet's' tactics. It's disturbing to see how many churches are getting political and ecumenical--many Christians think they are actually being loving by being a part of this. I was looking for a new church several months ago and I ended up speaking to the pastor's mother--her husband was the pastor of the church when it started in the 50's. I had heard many of her son's sermons on the radio and believed he taught sound doctrine. However when I mentioned to her that I had not voted in the last election, she acted as if I had bought the nails to crucify Christ with--I was shocked. understand the conversation was began initially because I was having difficulty finding a gospel centered church in my area and I was feeling alone in my faith. She went on for almost 15 min berating me--as if the candidate was some sort of savior. I finally said I hadn't called to discuss politics and said I had to go.

It was like being in the Twilight Zone....

 

[justbyfaith]

Generally, the answer to the title question is that the ends do not justify the means (Romans 3:1-8).

When it comes to the concept of whether believers should be an influence on politics, I believe that the answer is that we should be (2 Samuel 23:3).

 

[JohnDB]

First off...
A different set of beliefs in doctrines is normal, every day stuff. So long as it's minors and not majors I'm perfectly comfortable...but the second they begin promoting known sins I'm outta there.
Morality is carved into stone already. Deviations into known and obvious sins is an abomination.

Second... Christians in general should be A-political. Because it was politics that ultimately was the vehicle that killed him...and the crowd yelled for the release of a guilty politician instead of Jesus... Pilate knew Jesus was innocent of the charges.

He "washed his hands" of the outcome.

Third,
Unite for good political or service projects? Nope... again these things are usually poorly focused and operated. When the institution/organization is so often more important than the people that constitute it...it is always a problem.

Jesus used the word "Ecclesia" meaning literally "called out ones". He didn't say organization or Temple or Tabernacle...He said people. He is omnipotent...all of humanity call rally against him and all of humanity will die for their efforts. He is the reason for success or failure....not the volume of people. (Gideon story)

Lastly,
Sure I work in my community to make it better...best as I am able. I can be either a leech on my community or work towards improving it. There's usually no in between.

I used to think that one day I might die in a riot of atheists or Muslims...now I tend to think it will be a rioting group of antivaxxers. (Them people are violent)

 

[pottersclay]

1Pet.2:9 But ye are a CHOSEN GENERATION, a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD,an HOLY NATION,a PECULIAR PEOPLE,that you should shew forth the praises of HIM who hath called you out of darkness into his Marvelous light:
Titus 3:14

If this is truly our standing in Christ after being born again,then we have no fellowship with darkness.

He prayed to the father to not take us out of the world but keep us from the Evil of the world.

To be a part of the great commission and spread the gospel we must bear his standard ( crest)

We are to have no fellowship with darkness , oh that's so true... so let's not lend a arm to a blind man just because we are blessed with sight.
Even now should we call down fire from heaven on those sinners......you first.
We should have a voice in all that is righteous, just, and holy. If not you are not doing your priestly duty.
Our war is not to the flesh but the evil spirits that influence the flesh.
We are what restrains the evil and it's forces from taking control of a nation.
And how can a light shine forth if hidden under a bushel?
In the early 1900 christians had more influence of political and social matters down to community involvement than they do today, as they hide themselves as if the shepard will be struck again.
Shame on us as we should all repent. We are the heretics, the sloths.
We have and represent a God of the impossible, our war is already won, the victory has been declared.
We have been given a gift to give to others. We have been given power and authority from the throne of grace it self. Not the spirit of fear but of power.
We need to stop hiding our faith in our bosoms and showing our faith in words and deeds.

We can't make America great again....only God can Mr. Trump.

Yes we can....no you won't.... Mr Biden.

Time to make way for the King of Kings and the Lord of Lord's.

 

[justbyfaith]

2Sa 23:3, The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.

This indicates that Christians, in our political atmosphere of democracy, should at least vote.

And it also indicates that believers ought to run for office.

For who would be just, and ruling in the fear of God, other than a believer?

 

[justbyfaith]

I used to think that one day I might die in a riot of atheists or Muslims...now I tend to think it will be a rioting group of antivaxxers. (Them people are violent)

You can be certain that we will fight to make certain that we don't take the mark (it would take ten men holding us down in order for that to occur); and you have not taken into account that we can take the microchip out of our skin with a cauderized knife while thinking about the lake of fire as the alternative to help us with the pain.

I did this myself when five moles unrighteously appeared on my right hand.

The vaccine mandates are only one step away from the mark.

You would do well to take warning and heed; and to fight against this attempt by satan and the antichrist kingdom of implementing it.

 

[p_rehbein]

My question is: Do the ends justify the means. What does God's word say about this? Is it okay to unite in fellowship with heretics and false teachers for the sake of a "better world?" Where did Christ ever promise us a better world? Does uniting with heresy serve to make the world a better place or to make Christianity a much worse place?

My question would be: Do you believe that those who disagree with your theology are "false teachers," and "heretics?" If so, then would it be ok that those who disagree with your theology consider you the same?

All the children of God need to is to fix their eyes on Christ, remain obedient to God, and prover they are His children by loving one another....... Jesus told us this, so I'll go with that. AND, if the children of God do this, He will "HEAL THEIR LAND."

No need to dirty ones spiritual being with the dirt of earthly politics....

 

[Adstar]

Lately, more and more, ecumenism is taking over. There seem to be several reasons given for this phenomenon, but they're all related.

1. Regardless of theological differences, we need to all unite around common societal issues, like abortion for example.

Nope..

2. We need to come together and unite around conservative political candidates for the good of society.

Big Nope..

3. We need to unite for the sake of peace and the safety of our world.

Nope..

4. Uniting in solidarity will make Christianity a stronger force for good in the world.

Nope

Notice the common thread? It's all about the world.

My question is: Do the ends justify the means.

Not when the ends call for us to embrace doctrines of demons that are stumbling stones on the Way to salvation.. What is the good of gaining the entire world but losing ones salvation?? I remember someone saying something like that somewhere in the Bible..

What does God's word say about this? Is it okay to unite in fellowship with heretics and false teachers for the sake of a "better world?"

Unity with heretics ensures that everyone is a heretic and heretics shall not inherit the kingdom of God..

Where did Christ ever promise us a better world?

Well after His return..
But before then He told us that in this world we shall have tribulation.

Does uniting with heresy serve to make the world a better place or to make Christianity a much worse place?

Unity with heresy destroys Christianity.. Anyone who unifies with heresy has fallen from grace..

 

[justbyfaith]

My question would be: Do you believe that those who disagree with your theology are "false teachers," and "heretics?" If so, then would it be ok that those who disagree with your theology consider you the same?

All the children of God need to is to fix their eyes on Christ, remain obedient to God, and prover they are His children by loving one another....... Jesus told us this, so I'll go with that. AND, if the children of God do this, He will "HEAL THEIR LAND."

No need to dirty ones spiritual being with the dirt of earthly politics....

2Sa 23:3, The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.

This indicates that Christians, in our political atmosphere of democracy, should at least vote.

And it also indicates that believers ought to run for office.

For who would be just, and ruling in the fear of God, other than a believer?

 

[justbyfaith]

Nope..



Big Nope..



Nope..



Nope



Not when the ends call for us to embrace doctrines of demons that are stumbling stones on the Way to salvation.. What is the good of gaining the entire world but losing ones salvation?? I remember someone saying something like that somewhere in the Bible..



Unity with heretics ensures that everyone is a heretic and heretics shall not inherit the kingdom of God..



Well after His return..
But before then He told us that in this world we shall have tribulation.




Unity with heresy destroys Christianity.. Anyone who unifies with heresy has fallen from grace..

2Sa 23:3, The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.

This indicates that Christians, in our political atmosphere of democracy, should at least vote.

And it also indicates that believers ought to run for office.

For who would be just, and ruling in the fear of God, other than a believer?

 

[Laura798]

2Sa 23:3, The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.

This indicates that Christians, in our political atmosphere of democracy, should at least vote.

And it also indicates that believers ought to run for office.

For who would be just, and ruling in the fear of God, other than a believer?

Justbyfaith,



This is going into a different topic--if we should or should not vote wasn't the question it was regarding ecumenicalism--I gave an example of

Question #2 "We need to come together and unite around conservative political candidates for the good of society."

Regarding a conversation I had with a pastor's mother. When I said it didn't vote in last's years election.


My reason: Both candidates were pretending they were something they were not--as nearly all political candidates do. But worst of all, the one candidate many Christian voted for said he was a Christian--this was not demonstrated in his manner or his speech. Also he said he did not have to ask for forgiveness--one of the only two actions one must do to become a Christian: "Repent and believe!"

Therefore I felt he was deceptive and he could not be trusted. A ploy of the criminal mind is to deceive using 'smooth talk'. We should choose people by their actions, not by their words.

Also, after seeing those pastors who came around him--that was very strange. Very.

 

[ResidentAlien]

HI RA,

No--it seems like the 'false prophet's' tactics. It's disturbing to see how many churches are getting political and ecumenical--many Christians think they are actually being loving by being a part of this. I was looking for a new church several months ago and I ended up speaking to the pastor's mother--her husband was the pastor of the church when it started in the 50's. I had heard many of her son's sermons on the radio and believed he taught sound doctrine. However when I mentioned to her that I had not voted in the last election, she acted as if I had bought the nails to crucify Christ with--I was shocked. understand the conversation was began initially because I was having difficulty finding a gospel centered church in my area and I was feeling alone in my faith. She went on for almost 15 min berating me--as if the candidate was some sort of savior. I finally said I hadn't called to discuss politics and said I had to go.

It was like being in the Twilight Zone....

Hi Laura. I can relate. Patriotism has almost become a test of faith these days.

Don't get me wrong. I feel fortunate to be a US citizen and believe in doing what I can in return for the benefits I enjoy. I also believe as a Christian it's my responsibility to help others. It's uniting in fellowship with false Christians that's dragging the church down in my opinion. My true citizenship is in heaven; that's where my first responsibility lies.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Justbyfaith,



This is going into a different topic--if we should or should not vote wasn't the question it was regarding ecumenicalism--I gave an example of

Question #2 "We need to come together and unite around conservative political candidates for the good of society."

Regarding a conversation I had with a pastor's mother. When I said it didn't vote in last's years election.


My reason: Both candidates were pretending they were something they were not--as nearly all political candidates do. But worst of all, the one candidate many Christian voted for said he was a Christian--this was not demonstrated in his manner or his speech. Also he said he did not have to ask for forgiveness--one of the only two actions one must do to become a Christian: "Repent and believe!"

Therefore I felt he was deceptive and he could not be trusted. A ploy of the criminal mind is to deceive using 'smooth talk'. We should choose people by their actions, not by their words.

Also, after seeing those pastors who came around him--that was very strange. Very.

Amen and Amen.

 

[JaumeJ]

2Sa 23:3, The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.

This indicates that Christians, in our political atmosphere of democracy, should at least vote.

And it also indicates that believers ought to run for office.

For who would be just, and ruling in the fear of God, other than a believer?

To make a decision to vote for the lesser evil is yet participating in the sin of the lesser. Think.

 

[Laura798]

2Sa 23:3, The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.

This indicates that Christians, in our political atmosphere of democracy, should at least vote.

And it also indicates that believers ought to run for office.

For who would be just, and ruling in the fear of God, other than a believer?

Here is a very important that you are missing--this verse is spoken to the people of Israel--they were both a nation and a people of faith, living under God's Laws and Commandments. Not so with any other country in the world.

Note: I do believe as a general rule citizens should vote-, but may at times choose not to. Christians must vote according to their faith and conscious and not be swayed by the majority--many of who are putting their faith in man, instead of God.

 

[JaumeJ]

Here is a very important that you are missing--this verse is spoken to the people of Israel--they were both a nation and a people of faith, living under God's Laws and Commandments. Not so with any other country in the world.

If a belieer understands this, then that peron knows the New Jerusalem is the capital of the Israel of God to come. We are all to be citizens thereof. No big mystery, just a teaching which has been trampled upon and hidden as best possible for centuries.

 

[SomeDisciple]

There's a huge difference between cooperation with people in the world, and Christian fellowship.
-A business venture isn't fellowship.
-A protest to stop abortion isn't fellowship.
- working together in a non-profit isn't fellowship.
-a political campaign to have biblical values reflected in our laws isn't fellowship.

Of course Jesus did not say we would be able to heal the world- he's gonna burn everything- but that doesn't mean we dont take care of the place while it's still here. It doesn't mean you try to withdrawl from the world- were here to witness to the world!

Cooperating with people outside the church doesn't just achieve common goals- it's also an opportunity to witness, and it's to people you likely already have something in common with.

Being part of a heavenly kingdom doesn't mean you have no affiliation or responsibility to your temporal countrymen or the government. Sure, if you have to disobey sometimes to submit to God, then that's what you do. God created the nations and kingdoms of the earth for a reason and they have very real authority that is from God himself.

US citizens, by design of our government, are granted varying degrees of authority. Something as simple as your right to vote enables you to effect policy that governs the people. If we fail to use the authority we have for the better, we effectively hand it over to those who would take it from us. I have no doubt this will eventually happen here- it will happen over my dead body- but it will probably happen, but there's no need to speed the process by doing nothing.

 

[Laura798]

There's a huge difference between cooperation with people in the world, and Christian fellowship.
-A business venture isn't fellowship.
-A protest to stop abortion isn't fellowship.
- working together in a non-profit isn't fellowship.
-a political campaign to have biblical values reflected in our laws isn't fellowship.

Of course Jesus did not say we would be able to heal the world- he's gonna burn everything- but that doesn't mean we dont take care of the place while it's still here. It doesn't mean you try to withdrawl from the world- were here to witness to the world!

Cooperating with people outside the church doesn't just achieve common goals- it's also an opportunity to witness, and it's to people you likely already have something in common with.

Being part of a heavenly kingdom doesn't mean you have no affiliation or responsibility to your temporal countrymen or the government. Sure, if you have to disobey sometimes to submit to God, then that's what you do. God created the nations and kingdoms of the earth for a reason and they have very real authority that is from God himself.


I think we're getting off topic here--also don't see the topic saying we shouldn't have responsibilities as citizens of the world. I think we can all agree on that.

Maybe read again the first post and respond to that.
Question # 2 was just one example I gave in my post how politics have infiltrated the church--our eyes must be on Christ first and foremost, not on MAN. This is one of the biggest problems in our churches today--the focus is on man and pleasing him--also man playing God thinking THEY must save humanity, yet how often do these Christians actually share the gospel of Jesus Christ?

"Tis only one life will soon be past, it's only what's done for Christ will last."

I can't find any politics in the New Testament and the politics in the old were unique to the Israelites since as I said they were both a nation and a people of faith who were commanded to live by God's laws and commandments.

I see the main point of the post is this (correct me if I'm wrong, ResidentA)
"
Do Not Be Unequally Yoked
13 As a fair exchange, I ask you as my children: Open wide your hearts also. 14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership can righteousness have with wickedness? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness? 15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?…"--2nd Corinthians 6:14