Does 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 Teach Jesus Will Return With Dead Saints Now With Him In Heaven?
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Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Revelation 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
2Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Corinthians 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
CAUGHT up is WHEN CHRIST RETURNS FOR 2ND ADVENT. THOSE COMING WITH HIM FROM VERSE 14 ARE THOSE WHO HAVE DIED.
THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE LORDS DAY AND AFTER THE WORKINGS OF SATAN. THE END OF THAT DAY THE NEW JERUSALEM COMES.
THAT IS THE ORDER
THE REST GOES AGAINST
GOES AGAINST CHRISTS OWN PRAYER.
CHANCES OF THAT BEING HAPPENING?
ZERO
I'm not familiar with a "resurrection at death". The single resurrection of the saved is when ALL believers will receive their glorified bodies.
John 14:1-6 was said BEFORE Jesus was crucified and died. He DID ascend to heaven after His resurrection. Jesus was not teaching anything about a rapture. He was assuring His disciples that they would have a place in heaven when THEY died.
All believers throughout history who have died are now in heaven, with Jesus. When He returns to earth at the Second Advent, He will bring all of them with Him.
I don't know what you mean by the bolded words. He ascended after His resurrection. And Acts 3:21 teaches that He remains in heaven
UNTIl the time of the restoration.
The translations use "receive" but the Greek means "to retain, contain".
John 14:1-6 was said BEFORE Jesus was crucified and died. He DID ascend to heaven after His resurrection. Jesus was not teaching anything about a rapture. He was assuring His disciples that they would have a place in heaven when THEY died.
All believers throughout history who have died are now in heaven, with Jesus. When He returns to earth at the Second Advent, He will bring all of them with Him.
I don't know what you mean by the bolded words. He ascended after His resurrection. And Acts 3:21 teaches that He remains in heaven
UNTIl the time of the restoration.
The translations use "receive" but the Greek means "to retain, contain".
Show scriptures and verse to support what you saying, the first resurrection will happen only one time and that's after the Great Tribulation, when the saints come back with the Lord Jesus Christ. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24: 29) Paul also said in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
This is the first resurrection.
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I do quote from memory a lot ... which these days is not as good as it used to be.
However He was speaking in Jerusalem and He said I go away to prepare a place for you.
The then converted Jews will reign as a kingdom of priests from Jerusalem, we are the heavenly body. We are already seated with Him in heavenly places.
However He was speaking in Jerusalem and He said I go away to prepare a place for you.
The then converted Jews will reign as a kingdom of priests from Jerusalem, we are the heavenly body. We are already seated with Him in heavenly places.
I would say the first resurrection corresponds with Paul's resurrection of those in Christ in 1.Cor.15 and Thess. and the second resurrection is of the "living and the dead" unto judgement ... I would not pre-empt that judgement.
The church is the heavenly body and will reign with Christ from heaven, the Jews are the earthly body and will reign with Him on.
We are gathered to meet Him in the clouds, the Jews are gathered to their homeland. earth.
The church is the heavenly body and will reign with Christ from heaven, the Jews are the earthly body and will reign with Him on.
We are gathered to meet Him in the clouds, the Jews are gathered to their homeland. earth.
Where does it say that?
We are already dead and risen with Christ. We already have received the gift of Salvation. DEATH is for SINNERS. We have been washed clean so DEATH has no jurisdiction over us. So we just drop off the dead flesh carcass and raise as has been happening since the graves were first opened when Christ defeated the power of death.
WHY would we interrupt eternal life for a 'nap'? Why would we descend when we have already ascended? Why would we be treated as the unsaved when we are saved? What did Christ do that the law could not? Why is that important?
Look for 'the last day resurrection' and what the reply of Christ was to it. Martha.
THE moments you are speaking to have to do with THE ALIVE AND REMAINING BEING CHANGED. The 'dead' who rise don't get glorified bodies, don't receive immortality, just get imperishable bodies (Heaven coming to earth requires all flesh and BLOOD bodies to be destroyed)
Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Revelation 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
ALL EARTHY FLESH GONE.
1Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that He rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Corinthians 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ: whom He raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
STOP. DOES THIS SAY ANYTHING ABOUT WHEN THE DEAD RISE? DO THIS MENTION A FUTURE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD?
1Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
AKA IF EVE RISE NOT, THEN ADAM IS NOT RAISED. FOR ADAM TO BE RAISED, EVE MUST ALSO BE RAISED
Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
No. There are only 2 resurrections; one for the saved and one for the unsaved. Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
This clearly means "one EACH".
Where are the verses that clearly support this? This is quite messed up.
There will be only ONE resurrection of the saved, and 1 Cor 15:23 says - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. So, "when He comes" refers to His Second Advent. And "those who belong to Him" refer to EVERY believer in human history. So, ALL believers from Adam on receive their glorified bodies at the Second Advent. Most through resurrection, and a few from "rapture".
Where are the verses? 1 Cor 15:23 proves the single resurrection of the saved will occur at the Second Advent, when King Jesus comes back to earth to "rule with an iron scepter" the survivors of the Tribulation.
This clearly means "one EACH".
Where are the verses that clearly support this? This is quite messed up.
There will be only ONE resurrection of the saved, and 1 Cor 15:23 says - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. So, "when He comes" refers to His Second Advent. And "those who belong to Him" refer to EVERY believer in human history. So, ALL believers from Adam on receive their glorified bodies at the Second Advent. Most through resurrection, and a few from "rapture".
Where are the verses? 1 Cor 15:23 proves the single resurrection of the saved will occur at the Second Advent, when King Jesus comes back to earth to "rule with an iron scepter" the survivors of the Tribulation.
Absolutely, and they died their 50 or so years later and went to heaven and have been there for the past 2000 years or so. They will be returning with Christ when He returns. There is only ONE 'catching up' because it is only possible ONE TIME for ALL THE alive and remaining to all be alive and remaining. After ALL the alive and remaining are changed THERE IS NO ON LEFT TO CHANGE. THIS CAN'T HAPPEN PRE TRIB OR ELSE THERE WOULD BE NO ONE ALIVE AND REMAINING FOR THE ENTIRE TRIBULATION.
FreeGrace2 said:
I'm not familiar with a "resurrection at death". The single resurrection of the saved is when ALL believers will receive their glorified bodies.
That was basically a question for you about "resurrection at death".
The single resurrection of the saved is taught in a number of verses:
Matt 22:30 - At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. Singular.
Luke 14:14 - and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”
Count how many Jesus notes. I see "the resurrection". How do you get "waves" or "stages" or "series" from that? Greek is singular.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
Count how many resurrections. Paul says "A resurrection". One for the saved and one for the unsaved. The Greek is singular.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. “when He comes” is in the singular.
The thrust of ch 15 is all about the resurrection of believers. We know that Christ's resurrection is described as "first fruits" because He was the FIRST ONE to receive His resurrection body.
Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”
This eliminates trying to use the people Jesus and His disciples raised from the dead plus all the ones who came out of their graves when Jesus was crucified. Jesus was the first one.
Rev 20-
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
v.4 refers to believers who were martyred during the Tribulation. v.5 tells us plainly that they "came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years". And to top that off, that resurrection is described as the FIRST one. Since there is only 2, this one is for "those who belong to Him" from 1 Cor 15:23.
Finally, the Bible clearly includes the gathering (rapture) with the Second Advent.
2 Thess 2:1 - Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
Red = Second Advent
Blue = 'rapture'
Most of the church and ALL of the OT saints will be dead when King Jesus returns at the Second Advent. What do you mean by "and risen with Christ". That occurs WHEN He comes back. 1 Cor 15:23.
Heb 9:27 - Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,
So, people are destined to die. And yes, all people are sinners.
Sorry, but I don't follow any of this. Do you have verses that support this?
We're not. Why do you ask?
All believers ALREADY in heaven will accompany King Jesus when He returns at the Second Advent. Rev 19:11-21.
Believers won't be. I really don't understand why you are asking such silly questions.
Since I'm not following much of what you are posting, you are going to have to tell me.
OK. Your point?
If you don't understand that a glorified body is an imperishable body, then I guess this discussion may as well be over. Of course they are the same. Read ALL of Cor 15. Paul clarified all of this.
And King Jesus will rule the nations with a rod of iron. On earth.
Wrong. Only all the military forces that surrounded Jerusalem will be destroyed. That's the "remnant" in v.21.
If all unbelievers are destroyed at the Second Advent, then Jesus won't have any mortals to rule over. And if your read ch 20 carefully, up to v.11, you will see that at the end of the 1,000 years, Satan is released and once again deceives the NATIONS. Who do you suppose will make up the NATIONS? Glorified believers? Impossible.
There will be about half of the worlds population that survives the Tribulation. Since all believers are given glorified bodies when He comes, that leaves approx 3.75 billion unbelievers to rule with a rod of iron.
I'm still not following much of this. I don't see a point. 1 Cor 15:23 proves that all believers, dead and alive, will be resurrected/changed "when He comes". That is my point.
This is NOT a resurrection that involves glorified bodies. If it did, it would contradict a number of verses that speak of resurrection in the singular. When Lazarus was called out from the grave, he didn't sport a glorified body.
None of the people that Jesus raised from the dead during His ministry received glorified bodies. Not even the 2 witnesses in Rev will get their glorified body when they are raised from the dead and rise to heaven.
ALL believers receive their glorified bodies "when He returns". That's what 1 Cor 15:23.
I'm not familiar with a "resurrection at death". The single resurrection of the saved is when ALL believers will receive their glorified bodies.
That was basically a question for you about "resurrection at death".
The single resurrection of the saved is taught in a number of verses:
Matt 22:30 - At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. Singular.
Luke 14:14 - and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”
Count how many Jesus notes. I see "the resurrection". How do you get "waves" or "stages" or "series" from that? Greek is singular.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
Count how many resurrections. Paul says "A resurrection". One for the saved and one for the unsaved. The Greek is singular.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. “when He comes” is in the singular.
The thrust of ch 15 is all about the resurrection of believers. We know that Christ's resurrection is described as "first fruits" because He was the FIRST ONE to receive His resurrection body.
Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”
This eliminates trying to use the people Jesus and His disciples raised from the dead plus all the ones who came out of their graves when Jesus was crucified. Jesus was the first one.
Rev 20-
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
v.4 refers to believers who were martyred during the Tribulation. v.5 tells us plainly that they "came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years". And to top that off, that resurrection is described as the FIRST one. Since there is only 2, this one is for "those who belong to Him" from 1 Cor 15:23.
Finally, the Bible clearly includes the gathering (rapture) with the Second Advent.
2 Thess 2:1 - Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
Red = Second Advent
Blue = 'rapture'
Most of the church and ALL of the OT saints will be dead when King Jesus returns at the Second Advent. What do you mean by "and risen with Christ". That occurs WHEN He comes back. 1 Cor 15:23.
Heb 9:27 - Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,
So, people are destined to die. And yes, all people are sinners.
Sorry, but I don't follow any of this. Do you have verses that support this?
We're not. Why do you ask?
All believers ALREADY in heaven will accompany King Jesus when He returns at the Second Advent. Rev 19:11-21.
Believers won't be. I really don't understand why you are asking such silly questions.
Since I'm not following much of what you are posting, you are going to have to tell me.
OK. Your point?
If you don't understand that a glorified body is an imperishable body, then I guess this discussion may as well be over. Of course they are the same. Read ALL of Cor 15. Paul clarified all of this.
And King Jesus will rule the nations with a rod of iron. On earth.
Wrong. Only all the military forces that surrounded Jerusalem will be destroyed. That's the "remnant" in v.21.
If all unbelievers are destroyed at the Second Advent, then Jesus won't have any mortals to rule over. And if your read ch 20 carefully, up to v.11, you will see that at the end of the 1,000 years, Satan is released and once again deceives the NATIONS. Who do you suppose will make up the NATIONS? Glorified believers? Impossible.
There will be about half of the worlds population that survives the Tribulation. Since all believers are given glorified bodies when He comes, that leaves approx 3.75 billion unbelievers to rule with a rod of iron.
I'm still not following much of this. I don't see a point. 1 Cor 15:23 proves that all believers, dead and alive, will be resurrected/changed "when He comes". That is my point.
This is NOT a resurrection that involves glorified bodies. If it did, it would contradict a number of verses that speak of resurrection in the singular. When Lazarus was called out from the grave, he didn't sport a glorified body.
None of the people that Jesus raised from the dead during His ministry received glorified bodies. Not even the 2 witnesses in Rev will get their glorified body when they are raised from the dead and rise to heaven.
ALL believers receive their glorified bodies "when He returns". That's what 1 Cor 15:23.
Our flesh body dies and we are headed for heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Does it seem at all weird to have been given a body that is MADE FOR HEAVEN yet LEAVE IT BEHIND only to go back and get it in a minute or two? (heaven time)
Would you agree that we 'raise up' to go to heaven when we die?
1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Do you believe we have some sort of body when being raised up?
1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up and with what body do they come?
1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Does it seem at all weird to have been given a body that is MADE FOR HEAVEN yet LEAVE IT BEHIND only to go back and get it in a minute or two? (heaven time)
Would you agree that we 'raise up' to go to heaven when we die?
1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Do you believe we have some sort of body when being raised up?
1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up and with what body do they come?
I am saying that Christ came to earth as the Son of Man and the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN was being proclaimed and was rejected or else HEAVEN ON EARTH WOULD HAVE BEGUN 2000 years ago when Jesus Christ would have sat on DAVIDS throne.
I am saying HE is returning on the LORDS DAY, the day of vengeance, and Satan will be bound and HIS KINGDOM ON EARTH will commence at that time.
I am saying that all that HAVE COME WITH HIM have come to rule and reign with Him for that 1000 years.
I am saying that SINCE HEAVEN will be on earth and FLESH AND BLOOD CAN'T INHERIT THE KINGDOM of Heaven that ALL THAT ARE ALIVE AND REMAINING WILL BE CHANGED SO THAT THEY ARE THE SAME as all those who came from heaven to RULE AND REIGN ON THE EARTH.
I think that there CAN BE NO EARTHY flesh alive on the earth when CHRISTS foot touches down and
SO YES, I AM ABSOLUTELY SAYING THAT THEY ARE JOINING UP (CHANGING BODIES REALLY) TO BEGIN THE LORDS DAY and that will take place HERE ON EARTH. yes
The ONLY use of "first fruits" regarding resurrection is found in Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”
So you cannot apply "firstfruits" to any human other than Jesus Christ.
I have considered and BELIEVE what the Bible teaches about resurrection.
Matt 22:30 - At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. Singular.
Luke 14:14 - and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”
Count how many Jesus notes. I see "the resurrection". How do you get "waves" or "stages" or "series" from that? Greek is singular.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
Count how many resurrections. Paul says "A resurrection". One for the saved and one for the unsaved. The Greek is singular.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. “when He comes” is in the singular.
The thrust of ch 15 is all about the resurrection of believers. We know that Christ's resurrection is described as "first fruits" because He was the FIRST ONE to receive His resurrection body.
Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”
This eliminates trying to use the people Jesus and His disciples raised from the dead plus all the ones who came out of their graves when Jesus was crucified. Jesus was the first one.
Rev 20-
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
v.4 refers to believers who were martyred during the Tribulation. v.5 tells us plainly that they "came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years". And to top that off, that resurrection is described as the FIRST one. Since there is only 2, this one is for "those who belong to Him" from 1 Cor 15:23.
Finally, the Bible clearly includes the gathering (rapture) with the Second Advent.
2 Thess 2:1 - Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
Red = Second Advent
Blue = 'rapture'
All this taken together proves that there will be a single resurrection of all the saved and a single resurrection of all the unsaved.
The resurrection of all believers will occur at the Second Advent, when King Jesus comes to rule the nations with a rod of iron.
So you cannot apply "firstfruits" to any human other than Jesus Christ.
I have considered and BELIEVE what the Bible teaches about resurrection.
Matt 22:30 - At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. Singular.
Luke 14:14 - and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”
Count how many Jesus notes. I see "the resurrection". How do you get "waves" or "stages" or "series" from that? Greek is singular.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
Count how many resurrections. Paul says "A resurrection". One for the saved and one for the unsaved. The Greek is singular.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. “when He comes” is in the singular.
The thrust of ch 15 is all about the resurrection of believers. We know that Christ's resurrection is described as "first fruits" because He was the FIRST ONE to receive His resurrection body.
Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”
This eliminates trying to use the people Jesus and His disciples raised from the dead plus all the ones who came out of their graves when Jesus was crucified. Jesus was the first one.
Rev 20-
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
v.4 refers to believers who were martyred during the Tribulation. v.5 tells us plainly that they "came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years". And to top that off, that resurrection is described as the FIRST one. Since there is only 2, this one is for "those who belong to Him" from 1 Cor 15:23.
Finally, the Bible clearly includes the gathering (rapture) with the Second Advent.
2 Thess 2:1 - Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
Red = Second Advent
Blue = 'rapture'
All this taken together proves that there will be a single resurrection of all the saved and a single resurrection of all the unsaved.
The resurrection of all believers will occur at the Second Advent, when King Jesus comes to rule the nations with a rod of iron.
Correct.
Sorry, but I don't understand your question. At the resurrection of all believers, they all receive glorified bodies, with which to co-reign with Christ in His kingdom on earth, and assist with ruling with a rod of iron.
Yes, every believer is immediately at home with the Lord, as Paul taught.
That's a question that no scholar can answer. Because the Bible doesn't address it. We know that Samuel came back from the dead to talk to that bonehead King Saul. And Saul recognized him. John saw "souls shouting" under the altar in heaven.
Yep, that's the question.
I heard one pastor say there is an "interim body" that souls receive. But there are no verses to support that. All we have is what the Bible has recorded. Dead souls are recognized.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Jesus said, "I go to prepare a place for you." that is regarding those who die while Christ is in heaven. Jesus will eventually leave heaven: "I will come again". That is the second coming and here is the important thing: "I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."
So where is Christ after "I will come again and receive you unto myself"? Earth. He is no longer in heaven.
"I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."
This is what Jesus said. This is what some think he said:
"I will come again and receive you unto myself AND TAKE YOU BACK TO HEAVEN; that where I am, there ye may be also."
He never said when he came back, that he was taking anyone to heaven. He comes again to Earth and where he is on Earth is where the church will be.
Also in the same chapter:
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Christ isn't returning to take anyone up to heaven to live with him and the Father but the opposite! The Father and Christ will end up coming here to make their abode on Earth with us! That's the opposite of the false pre-trib teaching!
386. anastasis ►
Strong's Concordance
anastasis: a standing up, i.e. a resurrection, a raising up, rising
Original Word: ἀνάστασις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: anastasis
Phonetic Spelling: (an-as'-tas-is)
Definition: a standing up, a resurrection, a raising up, rising
Usage: a rising again, resurrection.
HELPS Word-studies
386 anástasis (from 303 /aná, "up, again" and 2476 /hístēmi, "to stand") – literally, "stand up" (or "stand again"), referring to physical resurrection (of the body).
Christ's physical resurrection is the foundation of Christianity, which also guarantees the future resurrection of all believers (see Jn 6:39,40,44).
[386 /anástasis ("resurrection") refers to the physical, bodily resurrection of Christ – and people (both of the redeemed and the unredeemed).]
I need for YOU to show me WHERE to find the part in which you are connecting THIS LAST DAY with the 'LAST DAY OF THE AGE'.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to Me; and him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent Me.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of Him that sent Me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life and I will raise him up at the last day.
I JUST can't SEE any reference at all to the LAST DAY OF THE AGE.
I can see the resurrection on the day Christ died.
I can see the resurrection on the last day of someones life.
I see the alive and remaining being changed on the LAST DAY OF THIS AGE.
WHO IS LEFT BUT THE DEAD?
Who do you believe the 'saved' will be ruling over for the Lords Day
and where do they come from?