Doctrine of Unconditional Election

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
Unconditional Election is a FACT of scripture defined in Ephesians 2. Unconditional election is merely the expression that Salvation comes from God and not from ourselves. None of our work, none of our "wisdom", none of our "strength", none of our "obedience", nothing inherent in any of us is the cause of our Salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.



Its ok to hate certain practices of certain religions. Its ok to hate some of those religions understandings of certain scripture.


Its not ok to hate scriptural facts.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,673
571
113
It is mere calvinism. Unless you can show me a verse that shows election is to salvation, there is NO REASON to believe it.
That is not how the Bible was designed by God nor of how it reveals itself. Biblical doctrine is revealed across multiple verses and books. To be correctly identified, understood and interpreted. Biblical doctrine will not be found by demanding/expecting that all aspects exist within one verse using the words you demand be used, but instead, as the Bible has instructed us about itself. This all-in-one verse rule of yours violates that.

You: Unless you can show me a verse that shows election is to salvation, there is NO REASON to believe it.[/QUOTE]

Bible:[2Pe 1:20 KJV]
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Bible:[Luk 8:10 KJV]
10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.


After a quick search, here are just a few (but not all) of the verses that pertain to election. If you really want to determine whether the doctrine is valid, you should go back, find, and analyze the others yourself.

[Jhn 10:27-29 KJV]
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.

[Eph 1:4-7, 11 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; ...
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

[Rom 4:16 KJV]
16 Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

[1Pe 1:2-5 KJV]

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[Col 1:2, 5, 12-14, 21 KJV]

2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. ...
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; ...
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins: ...

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,334
557
113
And that is what I'm asking for. WHERE does the Bible teach that election is for salvation?


You haven't even tried to provide verses that support your view, so how about waiting until you actually give me the opportunity to see the verses that you believe teach what you believe.


All you need to do is provide the evidence to convince me.

So, why haven't you even tried to convince me? All you do is repeat your belief but provide no verses that support your claims.
It teaches it in plenty of scriptures, I have shared with you numerous times in the past. You deny it, and scoff it.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
3,689
113
That is not how the Bible was designed by God nor of how it reveals itself. Biblical doctrine is revealed across multiple verses and books. To be correctly identified, understood and interpreted. Biblical doctrine will not be found by demanding/expecting that all aspects exist within one verse using the words you demand be used, but instead, as the Bible has instructed us about itself. This all-in-one verse rule of yours violates that.

You: Unless you can show me a verse that shows election is to salvation, there is NO REASON to believe it.
Bible:[2Pe 1:20 KJV]
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Bible:[Luk 8:10 KJV]
10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.


After a quick search, here are just a few (but not all) of the verses that pertain to election. If you really want to determine whether the doctrine is valid, you should go back, find, and analyze the others yourself.

[Jhn 10:27-29 KJV]
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.

[Eph 1:4-7, 11 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; ...
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

[Rom 4:16 KJV]
16 Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

[1Pe 1:2-5 KJV]

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[Col 1:2, 5, 12-14, 21 KJV]

2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. ...
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; ...
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins: ...

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled[/QUOTE]

You hold parts of the verses to prove your view while, in many of the verses, did not bold the context of the passages.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
3,689
113
Unconditional Election is a FACT of scripture defined in Ephesians 2. Unconditional election is merely the expression that Salvation comes from God and not from ourselves. None of our work, none of our "wisdom", none of our "strength", none of our "obedience", nothing inherent in any of us is the cause of our Salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.



Its ok to hate certain practices of certain religions. Its ok to hate some of those religions understandings of certain scripture.


Its not ok to hate scriptural facts.
Yet, one must receive the gift…
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,673
571
113
You hold parts of the verses to prove your view while, in many of the verses, did not bold the context of the passages.
Wait - I provided the whole verse in my reply, didn't I? The reader is able to read all of it on their own, aren't they? To bold all of it is to bold none of it. Your criticism is illogical.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,673
571
113
You hold parts of the verses to prove your view while, in many of the verses, did not bold the context of the passages.
Of course, I bolded only parts of it. The whole point of bolding is to emphasize that which one want to demonstrate. I'm shocked you don't know that.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
Biblical doctrine is revealed across multiple verses and books.
In agreement we are to understand words within the verse ... the verse within the context ... the context within the whole scope of Scripture. You can't hold one verse up and utterly ignore other verses you don't like because they don't support your preconceived notion. We are to bring our understanding in alignment with God's Word ... casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ (2 Cor 10:5).




Bible:[2Pe 1:20 KJV]
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
In order to understand the point of 2 Peter 1:20 we must read verse 21 with verse 20.

2 Peter 1:20-21 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

What these verses tell us is that God is the Author of Scripture. Man is not the author of Scripture. Man is only the scribe ... God gave the words to certain men and men wrote it down on the scrolls.

From Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges:
The Apostle calls on men to give heed to the prophetic word on the ground that no prophecy, authenticated as such by being recognised as part of Scripture, whether that Scripture belongs to the Old, or the New Covenant, comes by the prophet’s own interpretation of the facts with which he has to deal, whether those facts concern the outer history of the world, or the unfolding of the eternal truths of God’s Kingdom. It is borne to him, as he proceeds to shew in the next verse, from a higher source, from that which is, in the truest sense of the word, an inspiration. The views held by some commentators, (1) that St Peter is protesting against the application of private judgment to the interpretation of prophecy, and (2) that he is contending that no single prophecy can be interpreted apart from the whole body of prophetic teaching contained in Scripture, are, it is believed, less satisfactory explanations of the Apostle’s meaning.




rogerg said:
[Jhn 10:27-29 KJV]
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
read the verses right before verse 27, rogerg

John 10:

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.


The Lord Jesus Christ Himself told them ... and they did not believe. They heard ... they rejected the truth. They rejected Him.

Not because they did not hear ... but because they restrained, suppressed, hindered the truth in unrighteousness ... just as is shown in Rom 1:18.




rogerg said:
[Eph 1:4-7, 11 KJV]
start reading from verse 1, rogerg.

Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus


The letter to the Ephesians is written to those who are faithful in Christ Jesus. They are already believers ... and they are not novices, (new believers). The truths found in the letter to the Ephesians are written to the more mature believer, those who are further along in their spiritual maturity than a babe in Christ to whom the gospel is to be taught.

I believe the Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind ... all descendants of Adam. God's desire is for all men to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4). That some do not come unto the knowledge of the truth is due to their rejection of God as they restrain, suppress, hinder the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18).



 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
3,689
113
Wait - I provided the whole verse in my reply, didn't I? The reader is able to read all of it on their own, aren't they? To bold all of it is to bold none of it. Your criticism is illogical.
Your theology concerning the bold is incorrect without the context.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
3,689
113
[Eph 1:4-7, 11 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; ...
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
You left out the context of what God has chosen in him, in His Son. The spiritual blessings in the heavenly places are the context of what God has chosen in His Son, in Christ. How does on get these spiritual blessings? One must believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
You left out the context of what God has chosen in him, in His Son. The spiritual blessings in the heavenly places are the context of what God has chosen in His Son, in Christ. How does on get these spiritual blessings? One must believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
exactly :cool:
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
Unconditional Election is a FACT of scripture defined in Ephesians 2.
Rather, unconditional election is defined in EVERY verse that includes the purpose of that election.

Eph 1:4 - the "us" refers to "believers", as defined clearly in v.19, "us who believe". The purpose of electing all believers is "to be holy and blameless". Service.

1 Cor 1:27,28
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are notto nullify the things that are,

Red words refer to who God chooses/elects. Blue words refer to the purpose those specific elections. Service.

John 6:70,71
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”
71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

God is omniscient; He KNOWS who would betray Jesus if the opportunity arose. Judas was one who would and was chosen for that.

Acts 9:15 - But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. God chose Paul to be an apostle, to preach the gospel. Service.

Acts 10:41 - He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. Again, to be witnesses of the risen Christ, a service to God.

Unconditional election is merely the expression that Salvation comes from God and not from ourselves.
Rather, salvation is by grace THROUGH FAITH. That is the singular condition. Paul said as much in Acts 16:31. See also John 3:15,16, 36, 5:24.

None of our work, none of our "wisdom", none of our "strength", none of our "obedience", nothing inherent in any of us is the cause of our Salvation.
None of this has relevance to being elected by God.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Right. We are saved THROUGH FAITH. The singular condition for salvation.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
This is what believers are elected/chosen for.

Its not ok to hate scriptural facts.
It is also NOT OK to believe what isn't found in the Bible.

If you know of any verse that clearly shows election to be to salvation, please share.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,673
571
113
The letter to the Ephesians is written to those who are faithful in Christ Jesus. They are already believers ... and they are not novices, (new believers). The truths found in the letter to the Ephesians are written to the more mature believer, those who are further along in their spiritual maturity than a babe in Christ to whom the gospel is to be taught.
What difference does it make whether they were "novices" or not"? Everyone besides the apostles were novices at that time - it was irrelevant to their salvation.
The whole point was that it was directed to saints as a group. Who comprises the saints? Paul makes that clear:

[Eph 1:4-5 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Trusting, spiritual hearing, and believing in Christ, do not cause salvation, they are from salvation. They are through God's work not ours.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,673
571
113
Eph 1:4 - the "us" refers to "believers", as defined clearly in v.19, "us who believe". The purpose of electing all believers is "to be holy and blameless". Service.
There you go again using one verse to manufacture your own doctrine. Service is NOT the purpose of election.
Holy and blameless before God is to be without sin. Service has nothing to do with that - Christ accomplished it.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
That is not how the Bible was designed by God nor of how it reveals itself. [/QOUTE]
This attempt to defend your lack of verses that support what you claim won't work. Any reasonable person KNOWS that truth DOES have biblical support. So, those who cannot provide verses that support what they claim, are not, in fact, being biblical.

Biblical doctrine is revealed across multiple verses and books.
Yes, and biblical doctrine is revealed IN verses, so that we can read and understand the doctrine.

To be correctly identified, understood and interpreted.
OK, please provide a verse that you think teaches that election is to salvation.

Biblical doctrine will not be found by demanding/expecting that all aspects exist within one verse using the words you demand be used, but instead, as the Bible has instructed us about itself. This all-in-one verse rule of yours violates that.
This is probably one of the EASIEST ways to defend your defenseless views. Just say "there is no one verse statement". Really?

So then, please put together whatever number of verses you need to prove that the Bible teaches election to salvation.

You: Unless you can show me a verse that shows election is to salvation, there is NO REASON to believe it.
Bible:[2Pe 1:20 KJV]
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Bible:[Luk 8:10 KJV]
10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
This is just another smokescreen, trying to cover up the inability to prove your doctrine from any verse.

After a quick search, here are just a few (but not all) of the verses that pertain to election. If you really want to determine whether the doctrine is valid, you should go back, find, and analyze the others yourself.
How about doing this to the verses I've just shared with you. Analyze them and see what is being taught.

[Jhn 10:27-29 KJV]
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.

[Eph 1:4-7, 11 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; ...
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

[Rom 4:16 KJV]
16 Therefore [it is] of faith, that [it might be] by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

[1Pe 1:2-5 KJV]

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[Col 1:2, 5, 12-14, 21 KJV]

2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. ...
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; ...
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins: ...

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
It really doesn't matter how many verses you quote, none of them say anything about election to salvation. And only 1 even mentions election. So none of the other verses are even about election.

And the one you quoted, Eph 1:4, refers to believers being elected...to be holy and blameless. Which is service to God.

The word "us" in "God chose us in Him" is clearly definded in v.19 as "us who believe". That means believers.

I've given plenty of verses about the purpose of election. In all of them, the purpose has to do with service, and NONE of them is about salvation.

How do you explain the Bible calling Jesus Christ the Chosen One? Was He chosen to be saved? No, of course not.

And what about 1 Tim 5:21 - I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.? Are angels chosen for salvation?

In fact, the Bible is totally silent on the subject of angels and salvation. So let's not presume about that.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
FreeGrace2 said:
And that is what I'm asking for. WHERE does the Bible teach that election is for salvation?

You haven't even tried to provide verses that support your view, so how about waiting until you actually give me the opportunity to see the verses that you believe teach what you believe.
It teaches it in plenty of scriptures, I have shared with you numerous times in the past. You deny it, and scoff it.
Amazing. In spite of my repeated requests for verses that actually show election to salvation, you only claim that you already have.

If I was challenged about not having any verses that support what I claim, I'd be filling my posts with them EVERY TIME, to refute such empty claims, or lies.

Why haven't you just repeated what you claim you have already done? Should be easy enough.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
Rather, unconditional election is defined in EVERY verse that includes the purpose of that election.

Eph 1:4 - the "us" refers to "believers", as defined clearly in v.19, "us who believe". The purpose of electing all believers is "to be holy and blameless". Service.

1 Cor 1:27,28
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are notto nullify the things that are,

Red words refer to who God chooses/elects. Blue words refer to the purpose those specific elections. Service.

John 6:70,71
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”
71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

God is omniscient; He KNOWS who would betray Jesus if the opportunity arose. Judas was one who would and was chosen for that.

Acts 9:15 - But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. God chose Paul to be an apostle, to preach the gospel. Service.

Acts 10:41 - He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. Again, to be witnesses of the risen Christ, a service to God.


Rather, salvation is by grace THROUGH FAITH. That is the singular condition. Paul said as much in Acts 16:31. See also John 3:15,16, 36, 5:24.


None of this has relevance to being elected by God.


Right. We are saved THROUGH FAITH. The singular condition for salvation.


This is what believers are elected/chosen for.


It is also NOT OK to believe what isn't found in the Bible.

If you know of any verse that clearly shows election to be to salvation, please share.
Faith is not a condition. It is the gift of God.
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,


Ephesians 2:8-10 OVERWHELMINGLY Proves that salvation is not conditional. Romans 8 shows that it is the saved that are elect.


Your refusal to read and understand these scriptures in no way means these verses are not CRYSTAL CLEAR in their meaning.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
There you go again using one verse to manufacture your own doctrine. Service is NOT the purpose of election.
OK, then. I'm going to fill this post with plenty of verses that show JUST THAT.

You are free to read them if you want. Or avoid them if you want. But you'll have them, none the less. So you will be fully accountable for what the Bible actually says about election. Here are 5 pages of verses for your viewing pleasure.

Election is to service, not salvation.
I Jesus Christ is The Chosen One:


Matt 12:18 - “Here is my servant whom I have chosen, the one I love, in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will proclaim justice to the nations.

Mark 10:45 - For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and give His life a ransom for many (the masses).

1 Pet 2:6 - For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”

Isa 42:1 - “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.

Isa 43:10 - “You are My witnesses”, declares the Lord, “and My servant, whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after Me.”

Luke 9:35 - A voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him.”

Luke 23:35 - The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, “He saved others; let him save himself if he is God’s Messiah, the Chosen One.”

Acts 3:13 - The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus. You handed Him over to be killed, and you disowned Him before Pilate, though he had decided to let Him go.

Acts 3:20 - and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus.

Acts 4:27 - Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against Your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed .

Acts 4:30 - Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.

Acts 10:42 - He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that He is the One whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead.

Acts 17:31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Romans 15:8 - For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs

Eph 1:22 - And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,

Phil 2:7 - but made Himself nothing, taking on the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

Heb 1:2 - but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Heb 2:17 - For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

Heb 3:2 - He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God’s house.

Heb 3:2-6 compares Jesus with Moses as as faithful servant, who was appointed.

Heb 5:10 - God appointed him chief priest in the way Melchizedek was a priest.

Heb 7:28 - For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

Heb 8:3 - Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this One ((Jesus) also to have something to offer.

Heb 10:7 - Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll— I have come to do your will, my God.’ ”

II The original 12 apostles were chosen/appointed for service:

Mark 3:14 - He appointed twelve that they might be with him and that he might send them out to preach

John 6:70 - Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”

Acts 1:2 - until the day He was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles He had chosen.

Acts 1:24-25 - Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart,. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry which Judas left to go where he belongs.”