The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

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The rapture? Sure. Some people are taken away I see by God, and this is before the last judgement. Now will someone please mind telling me where they GO? And if you are raptured, then wherever you go then, what is you condition when comes the reputed last judgement, of they say, only the resurrected? This is a doctrine which I need explained in natural language!
If you believe God is just and God never changes and God is not a respecter of persons then you would not be able to believe in a 'PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE/DEPARTURE/APOSTASY' BECAUSE God wouldn't ask anything of us that He didn't ask of Himself and Jesus was tempted by Satan (we get through that by quoting 'it is written'/gospel armor) and Jesus was perfected by what He suffered (and we geth through that by knowing what is written/gospel armor/faith)

So the Day of the Lord is the ending of one age and the 1000 years it takes to tie up all the loose ends (people who didn't hear the TRUTH or what ever reasons God has them 'rise' for the 1000 years)

To end the 'flesh age' means in a moment in time ALL FLESH is going to have to change. Heaven (unseen) is coming to earth (seen) and there has to be a final moment. THAT is what it is all about this 'rapture' thing. (another reason not possible pre trib is if all alive and remaining are changed, there is no one left to be alive and remaining but common sense doesn't seem to play any part in Gods word for some)

So Satan has been kicked out of heaven and him and his angels come and take over kingdoms on earth. (beast). There will be the deadly wound come to the WWO and Satan will fix it and the whole world will worship after the image he sets us because he is performing MIRACLES (lying signs and wonders) First thing out of Jesus mouth when asked about end times is 'do not be deceived by any man, if they say he is here or there don't believe it'.

Comes at the end of his time here that he claims as he stands in Gods place to be Him and kills the two witnesses.

Same hour BIRTH pains of a new age. Two witnesses rise, earthquake and SUDDEN DESTRUCTION. All flesh with mark of beast drop dead

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


NO OTHER time will the division of man kind be more pronounced. Marked or Not. In darkness or in the light of the lamp.

Judgment super easy too. If you endure to the end the PROMISES ARE ALL YOURS.

So once all marked die the ALIVE AND REMAINING are transformed and meet with the armies coming to set up the kingdom of heaven here on earth as was offered 2000 years ago but rejected the WRATH OF GOD the bowl judgments are dumped out. Satan is bound and the Rod of iron rule begins.

At least that is where I was led. SIMPLICITY IN CHIRST.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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The topic Paul address is second coming and rapture
In Verse 1 Paul say our gathering together with Him = rapture
Paul is not starting a wholly new topic in chapter 2 verse 1.

He had ALREADY been talking about verse 1's Subject in chapter 1, when he had said "[ye who are troubled] REST WITH US IN THE REVELATION OF..." (where that text goes on to spell out what will be taking place ON THE EARTH during the Trib years); 2Th2:1 further states, now about our Rapture... (and this is NOT the last mention of this Subject either, in this context).




Recall, I said that in these two epistles, Paul speaks of the event of our Rapture / SNATCH something like 8-9 times, using A VARIETY OF terms and phrases (not merely in 1Th4:17 ["harpazo / snatch / rapture... IN THE AIR"] and 2Th2:1 ["OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM"] only! No.)
 

TheDivineWatermark

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^ yep if rapture already happen Paul will not be on earth to wrote to Thessalonians's.
And think how long it would have taken Paul to COMPOSE such a letter and to have it DELIVERED to them and then READ...




...more than "a singular 24-hr day" surely... and we're supposed to think that the Thessalonians would be distraught by a "false claim" (supposedly) "purporting that the rapture IS ALREADY HERE / IS PRESENT [PERFECT INDICATIVE]"... told to them by "sinners" also (supposedly) having been left behind on the earth (and NOT having been [by the angels / reapers (told to)] "GATHER YE *FIRST* the TARES..." like Jesus had said...); As if that idea could sound even remotely "believeable" (to them) :rolleyes:


These supposed scenarios make zero sense of the actual TEXT, here.


[it is NOT what VERSE 2 has Paul in this text INFORMING about!!]
 

Jackson123

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Paul is not starting a wholly new topic in chapter 2 verse 1.

He had ALREADY been talking about verse 1's Subject in chapter 1, when he had said "[ye who are troubled] REST WITH US IN THE REVELATION OF..." (where that text goes on to spell out what will be taking place ON THE EARTH during the Trib years); 2Th2:1 further states, now about our Rapture... (and this is NOT the last mention of this Subject either, in this context).




Recall, I said that in these two epistles, Paul speaks of the event of our Rapture / SNATCH something like 8-9 times, using A VARIETY OF terms and phrases (not merely in 1Th4:17 ["harpazo / snatch / rapture... IN THE AIR"] and 2Th2:1 ["OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM"] only! No.)
Yep, verse 1 is the topic Paul addressed, it are rapture and second coming
Verse 2 and 3 explanation when verse 1 happen.

It seem Thessalonians's think rapture and second coming already happen.
Paul make sure that day will not happen before rebellion and ac reveal

Rebellion AND ac not rebellion THAN ac
 
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Revelation 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

BASIC COMMON SENSE WILL TELL YOU 'THEY WHICH ARE WRITTEN...' enter in. SO MUCH FOR 'BEING IT'.

Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.


Body of Christ is just another way to address ALL CHRISTIANS who are a part of the Lord. They don't have some special mission, no special privilege's. NO PETER was informed the gentiles would be referred to as body of Christ HE just knew they would no longer be UNCLEAN and UNINVITED.

If they wanted IN, then they didn't have to follow all the laws of Sacrifice EITHER and they TOO would get to find forgiveness through the blood of Christ.

Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.


Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel:

Not separate, MADE ONE WITH. Came on board of what was already taking place. Salvation opened to whomsoever would.

You would think after the first generation they would be all about reading the OT knowing it WAS CHRIST IN WRITING, but 2000 years later still don't seem to be that concerned. AH, we never learn.....And you can bet GOD KNOWS THAT and if someone thinks they are getting out of it because they are a 'gentile' they are incorrect I think.

Brides, Body of Christ, The church are all just names for CHRISTIANS in groups. But even in the messages to the churches it is made clear to HIM THAT OVERCOMES... To HIM that endures to the end. There is no GROUP non judgment luck of timing get out of trib free card. We as Christians are promised persecution and be it REGULAR OR GREAT if you are here you are staying here until the job is done.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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It seem Thessalonians's think rapture and second coming already happen.
Paul is saying (in verse 2), don't let anyone convince you that THE DAY OF THE LORD IS PRESENT / IS ALREADY HERE [perfect indicative]"--the PERIOD OF TIME of JUDGMENTS unfolding upon the earth (aka the [7] TRIB YEARS-- don't be TROUBLED or ALARMED by such a "claim").

It wasn't.

And Paul explains WHY that WASN'T and CANNOT BE SO.
 
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Yep, verse 1 is the topic Paul addressed, it are rapture and second coming
Verse 2 and 3 explanation when verse 1 happen.

It seem Thessalonians's think rapture and second coming already happen.
Paul make sure that day will not happen before rebellion and ac reveal

Rebellion AND ac not rebellion THAN ac

HERE IS HOW GOD PUTS IT AND I BELIEVE JUST HOW HE MEANS IT. I am willing to bet HE has a great command of the language


1Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.



2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means for that day shall not come


EXACT SAME EVENT. not two.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
[...]
There is ONE EVENT at ONE POINT IN TIME / ONE TIME-SLOT, in v.1 (when WE GO "TO the MEETING [NOUN] OF THE LORD IN THE AIR"--no unbelievers / unsaved / lost person participates)
EXACT SAME EVENT. not two.
Verse 1 (two clauses) = ONE EVENT / ONE TIME-SLOT (ONLY!) <--happens on a singular 24-hr day






[Verse 2's Subject (the "false claim") is talking instead about an earthly PERIOD OF TIME]
 
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2Thessalonians 1:3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;

4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith IN ALL YOUR PERSECUTIONS AND TRIBULATIONS THAT YE ENDURE

5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, THAT YE MAY BE COUNTED WORTHY of the kingdom of God, for WHICH YE ALSO SUFFER

6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

IT IS A RIGHTEOUS THING WITH GOD TO RECOMPENSE TRIBULATION

HOW EXACTLY DO YOU THINK THE JUDGMENT COMES UPON THE EVIL WICKED NASTY PEOPLE? BY WHAT THEY THINK? MAYBE GOD NEEDS MORE THAN THAT TO SENTENCE THEM TO THE LAKE OF FIRE.

MAYBE THAT IS WHY WE ARE SENT OUT LIKE SHEEP AMONGST WOLVES?

OR IS THAT JUST FOR ALL GENERATIONS BUT THE LAST?

THESE ARE QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ASKED.


7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
 
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There is ONE EVENT at ONE POINT IN TIME / ONE TIME-SLOT, in v.1 (when WE GO "TO the MEETING [NOUN] OF THE LORD IN THE AIR"--no unbelievers / unsaved / lost person participates)


Verse 1 (two clauses) = ONE EVENT / ONE TIME-SLOT (ONLY!) <--happens on a singular 24-hr day






[Verse 2's Subject (the "false claim") is talking instead about an earthly PERIOD OF TIME]

IF YOU ARE SAYING WHEN THE LORD RETURNS FOR THE DAY OF VENGEANCE, WE THAT ARE ALIVE ARE GATHERED TO HIM, I AGREE.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Apostasy and the man of lawlessness

NOT apostasy THAN a man of lawlessness

Jesuit change the word and to than
Paul repeats the SEQUENCE 3x in this passage

(IOW, the man of sin "BE REVEALED" does not occur at three different points in time just because this word ["revealed"] is used 3x in the passage, regarding him... Instead, Paul is repeating the SEQUENCE [the SAME SEQUENCE] 3x in this text, which AGREES with the SAME SEQUENCE shown in all other related texts on this Subject [in Scripture])




[one of those 3x in this text is stated like this: "AND THEN [kai tote] shall that Wicked BE REVEALED" (and a "movement" is what preceded that very thing, meaning, his being "REVEALED")]
 
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Paul repeats the SEQUENCE 3x in this passage

(IOW, the man of sin "BE REVEALED" does not occur at three different points in time just because this word ["revealed"] is used 3x in the passage, regarding him... Instead, Paul is repeating the SEQUENCE [the SAME SEQUENCE] 3x in this text, which AGREES with the SAME SEQUENCE shown in all other related texts on this Subject [in Scripture])




[one of those 3x in this text is stated like this: "AND THEN [kai tote] shall that Wicked BE REVEALED" (and a "movement" is what preceded that very thing, meaning, his being "REVEALED")]
No, he just repeats the same thing 3 times to make sure there is no mistaking what GODS TRUTH is.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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IF YOU ARE SAYING WHEN THE LORD RETURNS FOR THE DAY OF VENGEANCE, WE THAT ARE ALIVE ARE GATHERED TO HIM, I AGREE.
No, I'm saying:

--"INFLICTING VENGEANCE ON [them that...]" (2Th1:8) does not merely transpire on "a singular 24-hr day" (the "24-hr day" of Christ's "RETURN" to the earth Rev19. No);

--"avenge IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (Lk18:8) is the same time-span and time-period that Rev1:1[/4:1 / 1:19c]'s "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" is speaking of (which is the "7 year tribulation period," [commonly so called]... the period of time that LEADS UP TO His Second Coming / RETURN to the earth... and which involves the SEALS / TRUMPETS / VIALS, "the man of sin" IN HIS TIME [the "IN THE NIGHT [/DARK / DARKNESS]" time-period], and numerous "SIGNS" pointing toward and leading up to Christ's "RETURN" to the earth Rev19);

--"with His mighty angels, IN FLAMING FIRE [inflicting vengeance on them that...]" should take the reader back to the same wording in Lamentations 2:3-4 (which is also similar language to that of 2Th2:7b-8a... with v.8a being at the START of those future "7 years," just like v.9a is), to see that this is not merely talking about "a singular 24 hour day," any more than Hab1:6,12 is (it ISN'T), where that passage states that "For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans / the Babylonians..." and "O LORD, thou hast ordained them [the Chaldeans / Babylonians] FOR / TO EXECUTE JUDGMENT; and O mighty God, thou hast established them [the Chaldeans / Babylonians] FOR / TO EXECUTE CORRECTION"--i.e. not merely on "a singular 24- hr day" NO)


--[much more, but my lids are starting to become droopy with tiredness... good night, all!]
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Wrong. There is no movement mentioned.
I was talking about the sentence WITH the "AND THEN [kai tote]" (<--in the words just prior to that part [is where a "movement" is]); so the THIRD MENTION of "revealed"... in vv.7b-8a



(btw, SIMILAR WORDING to that found in Lam2:3-4, as I'm continually pointing out)


[b/c Jackson was suggesting there's no such wording (in BLUE ^ ) in this text, and that some "Jesuits" MADE IT UP. Not.]
 

Jesus_Leads

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The False Teaching of what happens at the Rapture.

I believe people have been taught through preaching, books, videos etc a wrong view of what happens at the Rapture.

This false teaching says that when people are caught away to meet the Lord others will see them rise in the air, and great devastation will happen. Planes will fall out of the sky as Christian pilots are taken away, plus cars and buses, trains etc will all crash because their drivers were believers and were caught away.

People are told that unbelievers will be shocked and horrified as they realise they have been `left behind.`

None of this is a true picture, I believe, of what will really happen at the rapture.

The Truth of what will happen at the Rapture.

God`s word says that we will see that Day, (of the Lord) approaching and thus get together more.

`...exhorting, (encouraging and warning) one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.` (Heb. 10: 25)

I believe the Holy Spirit will be stirring our spirits expectantly so that we know the time is very close.

`To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear...` (Heb. 9: 28)

In the world people will think WW 3 is happening. The Russian Federation plus Iran, Ethiopia and Libya, (Ez. 38: 1 - 5) will be brought down by God to the mountains of Israel for judgment. The amassing of those troops will be very plain to see. Even now there is movement in those nations. People of the world will be looking at their phones, TV, etc in great fear of a nuclear World War.

The Lockdowns due to a supposed pandemic will keep people separate from others. Most will only be concerned with getting supplies, (which may be limited) and returning home.

Then when those who are eagerly waiting and looking for the Lord are taken, their bodies will be changed and there will be nothing left to indicate where they are. If some people do notice that so and so is not around there are many reasons for that - gone into a covid quarantine camp, visiting relatives, gone on holiday, etc etc.

Have you ever thought about this?
Hey everyone I believe our lord will save us before tribulation but I have a doubt with two verses which are as follows.

Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition,
2 Thessalonian2:3

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.
2 Peter 3:10 RSV

In 1st verse antichrist has to showup before rapture and also there's a great destruction happening during rapture these two are not mentioned in other verses which explains rapture so can some one help me to understand this.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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And I pointed out that you added "movement" when none was mentioned by Paul in the passage.
I said a movement...

notice: "...UNTIL out of the midst he BECOME, AND THEN [kai tote] shall that Wicked BE REVEALED..."








["until OUT OF THE MIDST he BECOME" is a "movement" of some kind--I did not say the WORD "movement" was written in the text... I'm saying it's DESCRIBED by means of other words]
 

ewq1938

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UNTIL out of the midst he BECOME
That has to be one of the worst translation suggestions I have ever read. The KJV translation is better and correct while that is nonsense that isn't even real English.

"until he be taken out of the way"
 
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