The Lord's Day (Rev. 1:10) - Sabbath (7th) or Sunday (1st) or Eschatological day or something else?

[posthuman]

have actually read my linked materials. The quote is from "Apostolic Constitutions" (supposedly late 3rd C.) and is being used to refute Catholics that claim Christians were not keeping Sabbath so late after Jesus' ascension. Neither I nor brother Bob Pickle, place any credence in that source to identify the Lord's day of Revelation 1:10 precisely because of its Catholic nature, which denies what scripture teaches in several places (Isaiah 8:20).

Interesting.

So you are saying you use it as proof and simultaneously reject it as proof.


That doesn't strike you as duplicitous?

 

[posthuman]

It is a Catholic document used (like a hostile witness) to refute Catholics and their mistaken notion in regards Sabbath keeping. Of course Catholics claim the the Lord's day is Sunday. See 'pope' Sylvester I.

I found the whole website bizzarly disengenuous. It's a strawman; the claim has never been that no Christians ever observed sabbath. The fact is that Christians have ubiquitously met on the 8th/1st day because it is the day Christ rose, which is a fact that your own so-called refutation supports.

 

[gb9]

some here in the b d f pushing a obscure belief ???

no, surely not!

 

[Rondonmon]

Actually the "Sabbath" has several designations in scripture.

1. The seventh day
2. Sabbath of the LORD
3. My (God's) rest
4. My (God's) holy day
5. The holy (day) of the LORD
6. (God's, the LORD'S) day
7. That day approaching (dualistic)
8. The Lord's ... day
9. It
10. The Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation
11. His (God's) rest
12. (God's day to) Remember
13. Hallowed (day)
14. Sanctified (day)

Its the Sabbath..........The Lord's Day is the day he rose, Sunday. All days are holy in Christ. /thread

 

[Rondonmon]

I have read the entire bible (KJB) and even read the entire Catholic Bible (St. Joseph's New American Ed.), and considered great portions in Hebrew, koine Greek, Latin, German, Spanish, French, Italian, old English, Gothic, Samoan, etc.

I have never read in any location, in any of those Bibles, or languages thereof, that "the Lord's day" is "Sunday" (Roman) or even "the first [day] of the week" (scriptural).

If you are saying I have missed such evidence in my reading, then please point to the verse or verses which demonstrate your position.

You probably think we should keep the Sabbath, thus why would anyone want to listen to someone with that kind of understanding?

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

Interesting.

So you are saying you use it as proof and simultaneously reject it as proof.


That doesn't strike you as duplicitous?

No, because it is using the enemies proof against themselves. Sort of like, using the known forged "Donation of Constantine", which utilizes 'officially' as a Tite for the 'pope', "Vicarius filii dei". It was used for many centuries as proof (by Romanism) of papal authority over Rome. So it is used as a hostile witness against it's own fabricators. The Catholic principles upon which it is founded are rejected by non-Catholics, even before it was proved to be a lie, but the title therein shows how they themselves, at the time, was fully known and accepted by themselves. We do not acknowledge that they actually are Christ's vicar (that is the role of the Holy Spirit), but we acknowledge that they themselves make the claim to be such (thus is anti-christ, vicarius christi, vicarius filii dei).

Same for what we are presently discussing. We do not accept the false premises and historical revisionism of Catholic documents, we simply use their statements against their own position which are contradictory.

Nothing disingenuous about that. Catching a liar in their lies, with their lies, is normal and standard practice in court of law, it's called perjury.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

You probably think we should keep the Sabbath, thus why would anyone want to listen to someone with that kind of understanding?

Yes, all humanity should repent, see Acts 14:15-16. However the goal of the OP is simply to identify Revelation 1:10's "the Lord's day". I have not asked anything else in regards Salvation, repentance, etc. It is just a poll thread, to present evidence on your vote, and discussion of vote and evidence.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

... It's a strawman; the claim has never been that no Christians ever observed sabbath. ...

Really? No one?

"... the article he quoted that you replied to said this "after Christ’s resurrection no biblical data suggests that Christians kept the Sabbath" -- so the evidence you are looking for is absence of evidence: the argument presented in the article he quoted is that there is no Biblical evidence of Christians keeping sabbath. therefore, the 'evidence' you want to be listed is the entire NT -- in which you will find zero record of believers keeping sabbath and zero record of believers being commanded to keep it. ...." - https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...k-biblical-reason.180484/page-10#post-3759881

"... I have shown you historical evidence that Christians have considered the 8th day their day of worship and did not keep the sabbaths of the law, long before Constantine ..." - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/today’s-church’s-misunderstandings.192873/page-30#post-4408182

You also have numerous statements like this one:

"... all this does is document that Jews who rejected the gospel and continued living under Moses have continued to keep the sabbath.
which is a fact no one questions, at all. ..." - https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-or-something-else.204024/page-3#post-4772957

And that is just you. Looking over the whole forum, numerous others say that Christians never kept Sabbath.

So, do you agree that in the NT, Christians were keeping the Sabbath in Acts 13-18?

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

... The Lord's Day is the day he rose, Sunday. All days are holy in Christ. /thread

Where is any of what you have stated, in the Bible (Isaiah 8:20)? I am looking for, from you, Book, Chapter, Verse(s.).

Surely you could even look in the Gospel and Epistles of John, which were supposedly written post Patmos, to start with.

 

[Grandpa]

Actually, scripture show the disciples (as did the "Jews" before them) met "daily". The word "Sunday" is not found in scripture. "Sunday" is pagan Roman time (midnight to midnight), and not scriptural time (even unto even; sunset to sunset). The phrase "first [day] of the week" only coincides with the pagan Roman time of "Sunday" in part. Why would a "Jew" or "Christian" claim "Sunday" as any kind of "holy" time? Please see the images in the third post for more details.

Well neither is saturday. But people call it a "saturday" sabbath.

I wouldn't claim any day as "holy" time. I would meet on Sunday because that's when Christians meet based on when Christ resurrected.

I would meet on Saturday if I were practicing Judaism.


So choose one. Doesn't matter to me. Just don't mix the two.

 

[Grandpa]

Context. Law of prieshood changed from Levitical to Melchizedical. Ten commandments are not altered in Hebrews and existed before there ever was a levitical priesthood inaugurated. They remain as ever which is why you still need the priest. See Hebrews, "true tabernacle" in Heaven, and Revelation with the "ark" therein.

None of what you said is actually true.

It is just wrong assumptions you make.

Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


The High Priest being changed, there is of necessity, a change to the Law. You should look into it.

 

[Grandpa]

There is no one posting in this thread that claims that anyone can be or is being, or will be, justified by any law keeping.

I teach:

Isa 45:25: "In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory."

Now the OP is clear. The thread is not about salvation, justification, sanctification, glorification, etc. It is only about simply identifying Revelation 1:10's "the Lord's day" in the context of scripture.

If you want to understand what the passage you cited means that "the just shall LIVE BY FAITH" please begin a separate thread and I will gladly go over the many scriptures, in their context, about living the 'eternal life' of perfect obedience to God's law by faith of Jesus.

Seems like YOU are claiming justification by law keeping in your last sentence.

I know what Lawyers and Pharisees teach. Its all against ACTUAL scripture but packaged to SEEM like its not.

 

[Poinsetta]

some here in the b d f pushing a obscure belief ???

no, surely not!

The pharisees kept the sabbath but the real rest day is the seventh day sunday

Correct me if im wrong

 

[gb9]

The pharisees kept the sabbath but the real rest day is the seventh day sunday

Correct me if im wrong

not wrong.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

... The Lord's Day is the day he rose, Sunday. All days are holy in Christ. /thread

Where is any of what you have stated, in the Bible (Isaiah 8:20)? I am looking for, from you, Book, Chapter, Verse(s.).

Surely you could even look in the Gospel and Epistles of John, which were supposedly written post Patmos, to start with.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

Good evening.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

None of what you said is actually true ...

All of what I said about Hebrews 7 is true. You the played the Bait and Switch tactic, and cited Galatians. By doing this you also Moved the Goalpost. You quoted Hebrews 7 about the change of the law, attempting to try to teach God's Ten Commandments changed. I showed you that the context of Hebrews 7 law change was from Levitical priesthood to Mekchizedical, and has nothing to do with God's spiritual Ten Commandments. You then go completely off the reservation of Hebrews 7 and the real Tabernacle in Heaven and the real Ark therein and the need of the Great High priest for a transgressed Law to Galatians which isn't dealing with the facts I presented. All you did was Change the Subject.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

The pharisees kept the sabbath but the real rest day is the seventh day sunday

Correct me if im wrong

According to the Bible, what day of the week did Jesus rise from the dead?

According to the Bible, what day of the week did Jesus remain in the tomb?

According to the Bible, what day of the week was Jesus crucified at Calvary?

According to the Bible, what day of the week did the last supper take place?

Thank you.

 

[Grandpa]

All of what I said about Hebrews 7 is true. You the played the Bait and Switch tactic, and cited Galatians. By doing this you also Moved the Goalpost. You quoted Hebrews 7 about the change of the law, attempting to try to teach God's Ten Commandments changed. I showed you that the context of Hebrews 7 law change was from Levitical priesthood to Mekchizedical, and has nothing to do with God's spiritual Ten Commandments. You then go completely off the reservation of Hebrews 7 and the real Tabernacle in Heaven and the real Ark therein and the need of the Great High priest for a transgressed Law to Galatians which isn't dealing with the facts I presented. All you did was Change the Subject.

I didn't change anything.

I showed, from scripture, that your assumptions are false.

Once you are shown your assumptions are false then everything else in your Legalistic Pharisaic philosophy crumbles.

But you need ears to hear and eyes to see, which Pharisees don't have.

 

[posthuman]

Really? No one?

"... the article he quoted that you replied to said this "after Christ’s resurrection no biblical data suggests that Christians kept the Sabbath" -- so the evidence you are looking for is absence of evidence: the argument presented in the article he quoted is that there is no Biblical evidence of Christians keeping sabbath. therefore, the 'evidence' you want to be listed is the entire NT -- in which you will find zero record of believers keeping sabbath and zero record of believers being commanded to keep it. ...." - https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...k-biblical-reason.180484/page-10#post-3759881

"... I have shown you historical evidence that Christians have considered the 8th day their day of worship and did not keep the sabbaths of the law, long before Constantine ..." - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/today’s-church’s-misunderstandings.192873/page-30#post-4408182

You also have numerous statements like this one:

"... all this does is document that Jews who rejected the gospel and continued living under Moses have continued to keep the sabbath.
which is a fact no one questions, at all. ..." - https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-or-something-else.204024/page-3#post-4772957

And that is just you. Looking over the whole forum, numerous others say that Christians never kept Sabbath.

So, do you agree that in the NT, Christians were keeping the Sabbath in Acts 13-18?

It isn't controversial IMO that many Christians did not keep sabbath. it ought to be obvious by any cursory reading of the NT - and you yourself called the sources that say otherwise, utterly untrustworthy.