Girls, don't you think you're being a little too hard on your stalker if...

[allforfun]

I understand your sentiment, but I think there can be a bit of problem with this whole 'stalker' thing. See, there is no objective standard as to what stalking actually is so it's defined entirely by the supposed 'victim'. Essentially, a man is a stalker if someone says he is. For example, I know a chap who was accused by a lass of stalking simply because he had a good memory, and was able to recall details she had told him the previous time they had met.

So again, I think I can understand your feeling, but there's always another side to the story, and I believe that Christian charity demands that we see people in the best light possible, which means giving folk the benefit of the doubt. I suppose what I don't understand is that if you know the bloke is well meaning, how could that possibly make you feel unsafe?

Stalking is not an abstract term. Nice try. Even a conservative definition here is "unwanted repeated contact". Does that not make a person feel unsafe? Even if he doesn't mean anything by it, if a guy repeatedly calls and it is unwanted, it becomes daunting. Even if he never physically threatens a woman, but tries to talk to us repeatedly with and it is unwanted, it can be come tense. We don't know how it will turn out, what can make him snap.

I know that it is hard to be a man, because women are accusatory. Your chap got a bad rap. I'm sorry. But on a whole? Stalking is not an abstract term. It is never ok. Even as Christians, I don't think Jesus would say "hey, forgive him one more time and see what happens".

"Supposed Victim" used in quotes is so derogatory that I don't even have words for that. I supposed you think most women asked for it too. Don't answer that, it is rhetoric.

 

[Maddog]

Stalking is not an abstract term. Nice try. Even a conservative definition here is "unwanted repeated contact".

Oh I'm sure there are all manner of definitions, and maybe things are different over there, but in the UK there is certainly no legal definition of stalking. In practice, it really does all hinge upon how the accuser feels towards the defendent. His intentions and the extent of his contact matter little, what matters is how the accuser feels. This sits a little uneasy with me.

Does that not make a person feel unsafe? Even if he doesn't mean anything by it, if a guy repeatedly calls and it is unwanted, it becomes daunting. Even if he never physically threatens a woman, but tries to talk to us repeatedly with and it is unwanted, it can be come tense. We don't know how it will turn out, what can make him snap.

'Make him snap?' This is exactly the kind of thing I'm getting at. I'm not trying to be unsympathetic, but I just don't see why one would assume a man is dangerous because he's rung you up a few times. I can accept that he ought not to be a pest, but I don't get where the fear for one's own safety comes from.

I know that it is hard to be a man, because women are accusatory.

Glad you said that, because yes, they can be, and frequently unjustifiably so, in my experience.

"Supposed Victim" used in quotes is so derogatory that I don't even have words for that.

It's not derogatory at all. It's simply the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Until we know he is guilty we cannot know that she is actually the victim of any wrongdoing hence 'supposed victim'. For instance, was the woman in my example really a victim? A victim of someone remembering the very things she had personally disclosed to them, perhaps?

I supposed you think most women asked for it too. Don't answer that, it is rhetoric.

If you don't mind, I will answer because I see that as an unfair indictment of me so I will defend myself. I never said that, and I never intended my words to be construed in such a way. I think you misunderstood what I was saying, but hopefully I cleared up what I meant above.

 

[allforfun]

If you don't mind, I will answer because I see that as an unfair indictment of me so I will defend myself. I never said that, and I never intended my words to be construed in such a way. I think you misunderstood what I was saying, but hopefully I cleared up what I meant above.

Oh you cleared it up all right. I'm so sorry you are so "victimized" by us women. So sorry indeed.

 

[GreenNnice]

Allfun, I think Maddog is speaking from his heart what he says , and, genuinely answering you from a pretty good perspective of guys everywhere. Maddog responds what I feel is quite thoughtfully (and not disengenuous at all, by virtue of listening to what you said then giving his answers to 4-5 of your points. I hope I don't make you upset by saying this or other ladies out there...but a girl once told me her family was having troubles. I asked how things were a few days later(keep in mind , please, this was a girl I liked) , she got really, really upset for even bringing it up. I meant no harm. I genuinely was wanting to know what happened positively and just let her know I cared of those troubles.

Anyway, that's all for now, except, Zere, I HEART your shirt dude and that too can be sooo much how a guy wants a girl to see him, imho.

 

[allforfun]

Allfun, I think Maddog is speaking from his heart what he says , and, genuinely answering you from a pretty good perspective of guys everywhere. Maddog responds what I feel is quite thoughtfully (and not disengenuous at all, by virtue of listening to what you said then giving his answers to 4-5 of your points. I hope I don't make you upset by saying this or other ladies out there...but a girl once told me her family was having troubles. I asked how things were a few days later(keep in mind , please, this was a girl I liked) , she got really, really upset for even bringing it up. I meant no harm. I genuinely was wanting to know what happened positively and just let her know I cared of those troubles.

Anyway, that's all for now, except, Zere, I HEART your shirt dude and that too can be sooo much how a guy wants a girl to see him, imho.

I am sure he did. I answered very genuinely as well but most if not all the women's perspective on this thread has been dismissed as we are overly concerned, we are victimizing men, we are mistaking men's intentions. So clearly whatever I have said has been overlooked as well. And that is fine, you or anyone else has zero reason to read it or believe it, but why ask the question if the answers are just going to be marginalized?

I am sure you meant no harm. I was not there for the conversation. But as a girl I can say this. She might have gotten upset with where you brought it up, it might not have been a great time to have brought it up or a myriad of other reasons that upset her that had nothing to do with you. Take that as not an insult.

So, questions were asked in the thread and answers were given. I wonder if the answers were taken to heart or just ignored like it so obviously feels like.

 

[Maddog]

Oh you cleared it up all right. I'm so sorry you are so "victimized" by us women. So sorry indeed.

You just broke my sarcasm detector. I'm also unsure what point you're trying to make.

 

[BLINDSIDE_CHIK]

My definition of a stalker is someone who persistently keeps bugging you, and following you after you tell him to stop! He's real dumb if he asks for personal information...especially if he's a stalker and expects you to give it to him. The worse ones are the ones who get mad after you tell them you are not interested! or if you ignore them.

Definition: a person who harasses or persecutes someone with unwanted and obsessive attention. (I think that's all that needs to be said) I don't think there's multiple definitions of a stalker. A stalker is a stalker and no he doesn't deserve another chance if he's "STALKING" you.

That's all.

 

[Maddog]

Definition: a person who harasses or persecutes someone with unwanted and obsessive attention.

That may do for a working definition, but problems arise when there is a difference between one's perception of the alleged stalker's actions and the reality of them.

 

[BLINDSIDE_CHIK]

Stalker, Predator, whatever you call it, doesn't matter. Whom ever it may be, if they are constantly talking to you after you tell them not to, they are a threat. Even if they weren't in all reality a "stalker" and if they are so gentleman like and only trying to get to know someone, they should state that. Or be so "gentlemen like" and stop bugging her after she asks them to. But even then, if the woman doesn't want to contact them they don't HAVE to. It's not an obligation. If I don't want to talk to someone, and after I tell them to stop and they keep trying to talk to me, they will be reported. I am sure the police or who ever deals with the situation will identify them as a harassment.

 

[Maddog]

Stalker, Predator, whatever you call it, doesn't matter. Whom ever it may be, if they are constantly talking to you after you tell them not to, they are a threat. Even if they weren't in all reality a "stalker" and if they are so gentleman like and only trying to get to know someone, they should state that. Or be so "gentlemen like" and stop bugging her after she asks them to. But even then, if the woman doesn't want to contact them they don't HAVE to. It's not an obligation. If I don't want to talk to someone, and after I tell them to stop and they keep trying to talk to me, they will be reported. I am sure the police or who ever deals with the situation will identify them as a harassment.

It may be fairly clear cut if there's actual deliberate contact being made (though I'd challange the idea that that automatically makes them a threat, but I digress), but there may be little or no contact at all and someone may still be perceived as a stalker (eg. it could simply be a matter of proximity).

 

[jimmydiggs]

Maddog, this will help your friend.

 

[gypsytraveler]

Here are some suggestions I would give to the guys that I know and have labeled as stalkers
1. Do not stare at the girl the entire time she is in your vicinity
2. Do not invade her personal space when you do try to talk to her (standing too close can make a girl feel unsafe in your presence.)
3. Do not mistake a girls one word answers as being interested in you.
4. Do not assume that just because she said hi once to you that it automatically makes you Facebook buddies.
5. Do not use sneaky methods for getting a girls number ( for example: looking it up on the internet)
6. Unless a girl personally gives you her number and says it is ok for you to text her, don't text her hoping to strike up a quick romance.
7. If you tell a girl you like her through a text message and she replies that she is not interested and your not God's will for her life. Do not try to make yourself look more godly to her in hope she will change her mind.
8. and finally, do not try to insert yourself into the girls personal life after she told you to back off.

Those are some of the things that the two guys I know, that are labeled stalkers in my eyes, done to put me off for ever being interested in them in any way.

 

[xJoe]

A stalker is a idolater in my opinion. A guy who puts to much emphasis or pursuit on a person is a Idolater. When a Guy puts so much emphasis on a woman it's taking it away from where it should be.
We should stalk God not other things or people. I broke up with a girl who made me her God. I don't want to be someones God, it might seem nice for awhile and such but honestly it's unhealthy. A person shouldn't be on our mind all the time even if we are dating them.
If I am interested in someone I express my interest and try to get to know them and see where it goes. If they seem uninterested then I back off.
Also even when I'm dating someone I hate it when I have to spend every living second of my day talking to them, what am i suppose to get done? Then they complain that I don't talk to them enough.
God < someone no matter who it is, it's considered idolatry. If someone can't find contentment in there day without talking to someone there interested in then they honestly need a priority check.

 

[thimsrebma]

David, we all make mistakes. Look no further than King David in the bible. He saw Bathsheba while he was on a different roof. Then though committed sin by having sex with a married woman.

Airway, we all make mistakes, what you said above-mentioned, although I, too, like the action hero , Harry Callahan , in The Gauntlet, Dirty Batry, etc. But saying the TWO comment you said here --- and, may God bless and be with you as we all say things from time to time we wish we could take back--do not need to have been said. A 'stalker' is a very serios term for a girl, the thread intent is for more of an understanding of what a guy can do to remove himself from 'stalker' status and, maybe, he can still let the Lord lead in his honest pursuit of her and win her back.

From the 1980's hit comedy sitcom, The Cosby show---

Irkle: I really like you, Vanessa. Why won't you go out with me. I give you flowers, cards, and, you know, my little cute wink like this, I don't see why not.

Vanessa: Irkle, I would only go out with you IF you were the last man on Earth !

Irkle pauses. Then replies to the girl of his dreams: 'So you're saying there's a chance.'

I think you mixed up a few shows.

Steve Urkle was a nerd on the show Family Matters and he was in love with the girl next door, Laura Winslow.

Vanessa was the 3rd child on The Cosby Show and she never dated an Irkle.

 

[Jullianna]

Doesn't it appear that harassment has been confused with stalking in our society? Or is it just me?

 

[allforfun]

Doesn't it appear that harassment has been confused with stalking in our society? Or is it just me?

I don't think they are that different. They are both behaviors that upset the person it is aimed at, whether aimed in affection or not.

I think the confusion I have seen from my perspective in this thread is whether the person who is receiving the attention should be defining it as stalking/harassment/undesired or just over reacting. And almost every guy has said that the woman is over reacting.

That to me is more upsetting then how we are defining it.

I'm an odd duck, I admit.

 

[lightbliss]

If someone is harassing or stalking me, I should be okay with that because I might not see it from their perspective? I should feel bad about being uncomfortable with their actions? "My bad, stalker. Feel free to continue causing me distress." Call me crazy but I do not agree with that mind-frame, at all.

If A truly liked B enough to contact B often, A should have enough common sense and respect to know where boundaries lay and not cross them.

I know the intention of this thread was light-hearted but there is nothing light about having a stalker and I was shocked when I read the title. I think a different term should have been used, perhaps 'a persistent man'

 

[BLINDSIDE_CHIK]

But just know guys, (or even girls) if you mess or even talk to the person without his/her wanting you around any longer. You can get into trouble. Most times the girl is believed over the guy. But anyway....Call it whatever. Verbally or Physically, Harassment is harassment and is not to be played with. Stalkers: If he/she doesn't want you around, you better leave or you will just have take it up with the law and can waste your time debating with the police what the term is called in the station.

 

[Jullianna]

I don't think they are that different. They are both behaviors that upset the person it is aimed at, whether aimed in affection or not.

I think the confusion I have seen from my perspective in this thread is whether the person who is receiving the attention should be defining it as stalking/harassment/undesired or just over reacting. And almost every guy has said that the woman is over reacting.

That to me is more upsetting then how we are defining it.

I'm an odd duck, I admit.

Hmm...wonder how many men would be surprised at how many men file complaints against female stalkers...happens more and more all the time, especially with the advent of the Internet. It's really not a game. It's a crime.

 

[thimsrebma]

Doesn't it appear that harassment has been confused with stalking in our society? Or is it just me?

Harassment is very broad. It can include contacting someone numerous times after being asked to stop, following someone, etc. Basically anything that is bothersome or unwanted attention for various reasons.

Stalking is a more specific type of harassment ususally by someone who has some serious issues. For what ever reason they are fixated on someone and must know there where abouts at all times.