I said:
1. The second death does not have power over those in the first resurrection.
2. However, they still get to be priests and reign with Christ in non-resurrected form.
3. They don’t actually get to come to life (be resurrected) until after the 1,000 years are complete according to Revelation 20:5.
4. The first resurrection must be two groups one before and after the MK.
#1 is obvious and stated.
#2 is a real misread of the verse. Those in the first resurrection are the martyrs from the Trib.
Given the other verses that also explain WHEN the resurrection of believers will occur (1 Cor 15:23, 2 Thess 2:1), John was focused on the trib martyrs, but he didn't say they were the ONLY ONES to be resurrected at the end of the trib. Given the 2 verses above, ALL believers are in that single resurrection. 1 Cor 15:23 says "those who belong to Him". Will you argue that this phrase leaves out ANY group of believers? I hope not.
And they, in their glorified bodies, WILL reign with Christ in their resurrected bodies. I am perplexed at #2. The verse does support that point.
What it supports is that "when He comes" (1 Cor 15:23) all believers will be resurrected and then reign/serve in the Millennial Kingdom.
Therefore, #3 is also misguided. The text is very clear that it is the martyred saints will reign with Christ at their resurrection.
I didn't say others. I was referring to the first part of v.5 "the rest of the dead". They will be resurrected in the SECOND resurrection, which will be for ALL unbelievers and for the purpose of attending the GWT judgment. Which is 1,000 years after the FIRST resurrection of ALL believers.
Acts 24:15 says plainly there will be a resurrection of the saved and a resurrection of the unsaved. That's 2 total.
I am perplexed why you can't see the clarity in v.4 - I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
I see it clearly, and yes, it is clear. John is referencing the dead believers who accompanied King Jesus to earth and will reign with Him, per Rom 8:17b and 2 Tim 2:12. And he included all the trib martyrs as well.
Those who think there is a previous resurrection for other believers have been deceived or just plain taught wrong.
Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15 and 1 Cor 15:23 all reference a single resurrection for believers.
So there cannot be a resurrection before the tribulation. Not possible. Just one.
This verse very plainly says the martyrs "came to life (which is resurrection with glorified body) and reigned with Christ a thousand years". It couldn't be more plain than that.
I don't know why you think I don't agree with this.
Another problem here. Why do you think the record resurrection is BEFORE Gog and Magog??? That's not in Rev 20.
I don't understand your question. What is "the record resurrection"? The FIRST resurrection is when Christ comes back, and ALL believers will be resurrected/glorified. And then reign/serve in the Millennial kingdom. At the end of the Millennium, ALL unbelievers will be killed, and then resurrected for their judgment at the GWT.
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison
8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.
9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Follow the bolded words: when the 1,000 years are over, Satan is released and gathers from the 4 corners of earth, Gog and Magog for battle. After surrounding the camp of God's people (could be all the resurrected saints who had been reigning/serving in the kingdom) fire comes down from heaven and DEVOURS THEM.
Of course. I have seen that clearly for a very long time. Still confused as to why you think I don't see it.
There it is. God brings down fire and destroys ALL the unbelievers on earth. And what follows v.10? v..11-15 is the account of the GWT judgment.
And all unbelievers will be resurrected back into their mortal bodies for judgment.
Hi FG,
Are these the scriptures you are talking about.
Yes, and the formatting of your post needs work. Here, in the middle of your post you say "hi", yet you responded to some of what I posted before that.
1. John 5: 28, 29. `all who are IN THE GRAVES...` As you have pointed out before not all are in the graves but in heaven.
This is referencing the bodies who ARE in the graves. Do you believe that souls of dead people stay in the grave????
Thus the Lord is talking about others who died and are NOT in heaven but in the graves. They will be judged -
Thus, no. All souls depart their bodies. James made the point in 2:26 - As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. Physical death is when the soul/spirit leave the body.
a) those who have done good to the resurrection of life.
b) those who have done evil to the resurrection of condemnation.
Let's agree that this has NOTHING to do with lifestyle. This is directly about the saved and unsaved.
That lines up with the GWT where people are judged according to their works. (Rev. 19: 13) Thus we see that Jesus is referring to TWO TYPES OF RESURRECTIONS - LIFE OR CONDEMNATION.
Yes, I know that. And Acts 24:15 makes the same point.
Note that the OT saints and the Body of Christ are NOT judged for we are under the blood of Jesus and are found in heaven.
Let me introduce you to 2 Cor 5:10 - For we must all appear before the
judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
So yes, ALL believers will be judged for whether we will receive reward or not.
2. 1 Cor. 15: 23. `But each in their own order:
1. Christ the first-fruits,
2. afterwards those who are Christ`s at His coming,
3. then comes the end,.....(Gk. `teleo` to set out for a definite point or goal.)
#3 doesn't go with that verse. Why did you include it there?
The verse tells us who receives a glorified body FIRST: that being Jesus. THEN, when He comes (second Advent) ALL believers will receive theirs (those who belong to Him). If you want to argue that "those who are Christ's" is somehow different than other groups of believers, consider this: what is the difference between "those who ARE Christ's" and "those who BELONG to Him"?
There is NO difference. Therefore, 1 Cor 15:23 says CLEARLY that ALL believers will be resurrected "when He comes". That's 1 event.
During the `setting out,` we know there is the trib, and the millennium. In all that the Lord will be `putting down all rule and authority and power,` till finally death itself. (v. 24)
I don't see a point here. Could you make one or offer explanation? Thanks.
3. Rev. 20: 5 & 6. The resurrections are two TYPES of resurrections - one to LIFE and the other to CONDEMNATION.
Yes. Of course. The FIRST resurrection clearly occurs "when He comes" which is at the end of the Tribulation. The second resurrection is for all unbelievers in order to appear before the GWT.
