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necto: i'll make this is simple as possible.
The Holy Spirit quickens the mind, enlightens the mind, guides, convicts, counsels and teaches >> all about Jesus. we have been given a heart to know God because Jesus is God manifest to man. Jesus is the object our of our desires, love, our faith. we care what He thinks.
our new heart (mind/man) now desires to see Him, to hear Him, to be like Him, to be with Him. we hunger to know everything about Him. for some inexplicable reason, we now hate the things we used to love (even though we may still stumble around in them - we are ashamed of them, not glorying in them), and are grasping for something we didn't know before, in fact something that is outside ourselves, yet which we try to emulate and internalize: His Righteousness.
none of this is remotely possible without The Holy Spirit.
o.k.?
now, with that said: if you are hearing audible voices please say so.
The Holy Spirit quickens the mind, enlightens the mind, guides, convicts, counsels and teaches >> all about Jesus. we have been given a heart to know God because Jesus is God manifest to man. Jesus is the object our of our desires, love, our faith. we care what He thinks.
our new heart (mind/man) now desires to see Him, to hear Him, to be like Him, to be with Him. we hunger to know everything about Him. for some inexplicable reason, we now hate the things we used to love (even though we may still stumble around in them - we are ashamed of them, not glorying in them), and are grasping for something we didn't know before, in fact something that is outside ourselves, yet which we try to emulate and internalize: His Righteousness.
none of this is remotely possible without The Holy Spirit.
o.k.?
now, with that said: if you are hearing audible voices please say so.
the 144.000 appear in a vision. a careful look at the rest of that vision shows that isn't an earthly scene.
what i struggle with is why we are still for some reason keeping israel and judah separate, and the whole house of israel and the church separate.
all that's over with. the church is the New Covenant body of believers, jew first, then gentile.
there's either one new man in Christ or it matters not whether you claim Abraham for your father or anyone else.
what i struggle with is why we are still for some reason keeping israel and judah separate, and the whole house of israel and the church separate.
all that's over with. the church is the New Covenant body of believers, jew first, then gentile.
there's either one new man in Christ or it matters not whether you claim Abraham for your father or anyone else.
that's a new one.
believing israel is the bride.
the gentiles are grafted in to that commonwealth, that Covenant, that marriage. that is spiritual israel....the CHURCH.
in that Covenant there is ZERO distinction: anyone maintaining that there is, is rebuilding what Jesus tore down - the wall of partition.
interesting because some who do this are also busy attempting to tear up what He already laid - the foundation. and they are trying to rehang a veil that was rent long ago during a dark and stormy noonday.
believing israel is the bride.
the gentiles are grafted in to that commonwealth, that Covenant, that marriage. that is spiritual israel....the CHURCH.
in that Covenant there is ZERO distinction: anyone maintaining that there is, is rebuilding what Jesus tore down - the wall of partition.
interesting because some who do this are also busy attempting to tear up what He already laid - the foundation. and they are trying to rehang a veil that was rent long ago during a dark and stormy noonday.
E
Sorry, I still can't agree. Yes, out of egypt he has called his son. You can trace his heritage back to abraham through isaac through Jacob through Judah.
Again. If God wanted us to think it was the churhc or spiritual israel, he would have just said Israel, or the church, or whatever, he would not have broken down 12000 from each tribe.
I think if we look to Romans 11, We see this is the restoration of the nation of Israel as these 144000 have repented, and begin to witness to the rest of Israel, where they all will be saved as prophesied.
Again. If God wanted us to think it was the churhc or spiritual israel, he would have just said Israel, or the church, or whatever, he would not have broken down 12000 from each tribe.
I think if we look to Romans 11, We see this is the restoration of the nation of Israel as these 144000 have repented, and begin to witness to the rest of Israel, where they all will be saved as prophesied.
A
If you wish to follow VW as your shepherd that is your choice. Personally I chose to listen to Jesus and His words.
So you think EVERYTHING VW says is true? or just everything you've read so far?
Do you think VW is perfect then as a mouthpiece of God and that all his words are from God and all his actions are sinless?
I didn't like the explanation since it involved the fact that VW was under the influence of a deceiving spirit claiming to be Jesus and prompting him to set himself up as a self proclaimed prophet and avoid the church and denounce people who questioned him and ignore anything said that did not agree with his views even if they were quotes from the Bible.
have you been following the conversation VW for long? is the the Holy Spirit speaking when VW condemned the members of his church by just watching them walk to their cars through the promptings of a being claiming to be the Jesus?
When pressed VW admitted to not knowing what those people were thinking in their hearts and he was too hasty to condemn them, but I ask would Jesus lead someone to stumble by judging others or would you recognize this as a deceiving spirit?
But God can save who He wishes and it is really in His hands if He chooses to save someone or if He allows them to continue to be deceived and allowed to follow the doctrines of demons.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
God sees into people's hearts, we can only see their works and words and actions. God can save anyone but just because people claim to be saved does not mean in their heart they truly believe.
Necto if it came between defending the Bible which is God's revealed words to the world and defending VW's words and actions, which would you chose?
So you think EVERYTHING VW says is true? or just everything you've read so far?
Do you think VW is perfect then as a mouthpiece of God and that all his words are from God and all his actions are sinless?
I didn't like the explanation since it involved the fact that VW was under the influence of a deceiving spirit claiming to be Jesus and prompting him to set himself up as a self proclaimed prophet and avoid the church and denounce people who questioned him and ignore anything said that did not agree with his views even if they were quotes from the Bible.
have you been following the conversation VW for long? is the the Holy Spirit speaking when VW condemned the members of his church by just watching them walk to their cars through the promptings of a being claiming to be the Jesus?
When pressed VW admitted to not knowing what those people were thinking in their hearts and he was too hasty to condemn them, but I ask would Jesus lead someone to stumble by judging others or would you recognize this as a deceiving spirit?
But God can save who He wishes and it is really in His hands if He chooses to save someone or if He allows them to continue to be deceived and allowed to follow the doctrines of demons.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
God sees into people's hearts, we can only see their works and words and actions. God can save anyone but just because people claim to be saved does not mean in their heart they truly believe.
Necto if it came between defending the Bible which is God's revealed words to the world and defending VW's words and actions, which would you chose?
Anandahaya, I refute what you say, completely. You have misquoted me, and taken what I say out of context.
Do you know what I have called for in all the church? Do you?
That we draw near to God. That is all. That we stop being separate from Him, claiming to be His while never ever drawing into His presence, not even teaching that we should draw into His presence, and instead come close to the Father of Christ Jesus who loves us. If that is what you call mysticism, that is your choice. I have stayed true to the vision He has given me. If that makes me false and a liar in your eyes, I cannot do anything about that either. But what you call discernment is not, but only judgment of things you refuse to hear or understand.
In Christ,
Do you know what I have called for in all the church? Do you?
That we draw near to God. That is all. That we stop being separate from Him, claiming to be His while never ever drawing into His presence, not even teaching that we should draw into His presence, and instead come close to the Father of Christ Jesus who loves us. If that is what you call mysticism, that is your choice. I have stayed true to the vision He has given me. If that makes me false and a liar in your eyes, I cannot do anything about that either. But what you call discernment is not, but only judgment of things you refuse to hear or understand.
In Christ,
Don't get so upset with AnandaHya, for she is not the only one that disagrees with you and your constant prophecies that you claim come from the Spirit. I have disagreed as well and you have accused me of being in danger of blaspheming the Holy Spirit with one of your close friends that is no longer with us. That is quite a charge to make against someone who disagrees with you. Your friend does not believe that God was manifest in the flesh in the person of Christ as the one and true God, but we heard nothing or any rebuke or prophecy coming from you on that matter.
You have many doctrines that you have espoused on this site that have been way out there and contrary to the words of scripture that we have been given, and did any put you on ignore? You have an incurable wound and it effects how you think of the scriptures, of the church and body of Christ and of others. That wound has made you critical and judgmental toward the church, leadership, the gathering of the saint in the body, and most of the teaching of the word and doctrine that is being taught. I do not see you as a gatherer but a scatterer.
You have many doctrines that you have espoused on this site that have been way out there and contrary to the words of scripture that we have been given, and did any put you on ignore? You have an incurable wound and it effects how you think of the scriptures, of the church and body of Christ and of others. That wound has made you critical and judgmental toward the church, leadership, the gathering of the saint in the body, and most of the teaching of the word and doctrine that is being taught. I do not see you as a gatherer but a scatterer.
A
No I have stated what I found your words to say. its in the threads but I will not waste my time or yours by bringing up the past.
If you are saying now that your message is that we need to stop being separate from God then I have no issues with that statement.
Now instead of getting all defensive and mad perhaps you can expound upon your words.
HOW do you draw in God's presence?
How do you listen to the promptings of the Holy Spirit in your life?
you talk about it but how do you teach it, since you claim many do not have the knowledge or do not have the desire to do it.
instead of complaining or spending so many times defending yourself from "attacks" (though I state again I have not tried and attack you personally but instead your words and ideas to my knowledge or my own concious effort)
perhaps helping by giving words of how new Christians should live lives that will glorify the name of Jesus would be more edifying?
just a suggestion.
If you are saying now that your message is that we need to stop being separate from God then I have no issues with that statement.
Now instead of getting all defensive and mad perhaps you can expound upon your words.
HOW do you draw in God's presence?
How do you listen to the promptings of the Holy Spirit in your life?
you talk about it but how do you teach it, since you claim many do not have the knowledge or do not have the desire to do it.
instead of complaining or spending so many times defending yourself from "attacks" (though I state again I have not tried and attack you personally but instead your words and ideas to my knowledge or my own concious effort)
perhaps helping by giving words of how new Christians should live lives that will glorify the name of Jesus would be more edifying?
just a suggestion.
L
Jesus has broken down the wall and you are trying to build it up
Ephesians 2:12-14
(12) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
(13) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
(14) For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Tell me in heaven which gate of the 12 are you planning to go through cause written on the gates is the names of the 12 tribes
Revelation 21:12
(12) And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
To get into heaven we have to go through one of these gates and if the 12 tribes are only from Israel as you say then according to what you say only literal Israel can go into heaven.
But if it is spiritual Israel then then we can all go through the gates and all be a part of the 144 000.
The OT church was a type of the NT church
Acts 7:38
(38) This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
1 Corinthians 10:11
(11) Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
ensamples = types
So that means we have
OT
Jacob (Israel)
12 Tribes
Church
NT
Jesus (Israel)
12 Apostles
Church
Ephesians 2:19-22
(19) Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
(20) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
(21) In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
(22) In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
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E
Nothing here shows how the 144000 in during the tribulation are not jews.
As for rev 12: 12. This is not the entrance into heaven. This is the entrance in to the heavenly city. the new jerusalem. After God makes a new heaven and new earth. This city will be the city of God in that new heavenly creation. One does not have to go through one of those gates to get to heaven. They go through one to enter the new city of jerusalem. Raed the whole chapter. not just a few verses it might help.
Scripture states there will be a repentnace in the land of Israel. God will restore live to the dry bones. bring them back into the land. Paul talks about God removing their blindness and them repenting and comming Back to christ. He says very clearly ALL Israel will be saved (this is not the church)
Rev speaks of two witnesses. they are jews. It may be this very thing of them being killed and rising again that helpts to convert these 144000. Either way. I see nothing that you posted that would make me believe these are not literal jews. And God fulfilling his covenant with them.
As for rev 12: 12. This is not the entrance into heaven. This is the entrance in to the heavenly city. the new jerusalem. After God makes a new heaven and new earth. This city will be the city of God in that new heavenly creation. One does not have to go through one of those gates to get to heaven. They go through one to enter the new city of jerusalem. Raed the whole chapter. not just a few verses it might help.
Scripture states there will be a repentnace in the land of Israel. God will restore live to the dry bones. bring them back into the land. Paul talks about God removing their blindness and them repenting and comming Back to christ. He says very clearly ALL Israel will be saved (this is not the church)
Rev speaks of two witnesses. they are jews. It may be this very thing of them being killed and rising again that helpts to convert these 144000. Either way. I see nothing that you posted that would make me believe these are not literal jews. And God fulfilling his covenant with them.
U
As a modern day prophet of God VW, can I take your words and thoughts on this matter as the truth ? Is there a possibility that you might be incorrect .....or does God guide your thoughts and mind on matters such as this as well ? Being a prophet carries grave responsibilities with it, does it not ? Should you be saying "I believe" such and such.......or can we just take the words of God's modern day prophets as the simple truth....in much the same way that we accept divine scripture as being infallible ? How does this stuff sort out and just how does it work ? God never was One to leave loose ends, agreed ?
Praise God,
I had the Spirit tell me expressly to warn a young woman, "if you continue to sleep with the man you are sleeping with, you will die." I did not even know her, had never meet her, she was just someone at work. I told her what the Spirit said. She was shocked. She did not know how to get away from the man she was with. I told her to let God do it for her. 2 days later she told me that this man had moved to another state.
She had had 7 different operations in the year before this, and the doctors knew she was dying, just not why. I see her almost every night now at work.
In Christ
I had the Spirit tell me expressly to warn a young woman, "if you continue to sleep with the man you are sleeping with, you will die." I did not even know her, had never meet her, she was just someone at work. I told her what the Spirit said. She was shocked. She did not know how to get away from the man she was with. I told her to let God do it for her. 2 days later she told me that this man had moved to another state.
She had had 7 different operations in the year before this, and the doctors knew she was dying, just not why. I see her almost every night now at work.
In Christ