Someone is in Big Trouble

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jun 28, 2022
1,258
383
83
That's true, so the textual 'experts' have their system of analyzing, comparing and combing over the tons of manuscript evidence to come up with the closest to the originals. Consequently their conclusions end them up in those two camps. (Majority vs Critical).
When we don't have the autographs, understandably, what's to do?

Have you Google image searched the books of the bible? New or old testaments.
Fragments. Maybe a page but with a huge gap. Fascinating to look and see what remains now.
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
When we don't have the autographs, understandably, what's to do?

Have you Google image searched the books of the bible? New or old testaments.
Fragments. Maybe a page but with a huge gap. Fascinating to look and see what remains now.
you can use the codex sinaiticus for reference. it's pretty much the same as the codex vaticanus and alexandrinus.

https://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=59

Revelation 1:11 saying: What thou seest write in a book, and send to the seven churches, to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamus, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,330
113
the Tanakh is the best manuscript we have based upon originality. the codexes are best for New Testament. they fit the papyrus fragments the best.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
And actually I think it is applicable to anyone who thinks to go that route.
absolutely -- me and you included. and that's hard, and i'm equally guilty
i just didn't want you to pass over pel insinuating mem isn't a Christian, for spurious reasons -- that's what she responded to.
yes, you can tell i love her. i call her a friend and sister
should she have held her tongue? yeah, ideally. but i understand why she didn't because i do the same thing.
in several threads i have telephone-man personally attacking me baselessly a lot, and i have been pushed to respond sometimes without grace even though i've striven to be patient and wise.


so i forgive mem, and i forgive pel -- and i forgive cellular-person too.
your overall point, blues, is 100% right: we need to learn to be able to overlook insult and speak with love, always.
it is our continuing debt, the only thing we should owe anyone: love
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
Okay, that's up to you. But it's about more than someone being in trouble with God. It's about someone tampering with the scriptures and I think anyone who's concerned about knowing the truth would want to know who it was. Not so the guilty parties will "be in trouble," but so fewer people will be deceived.
I'm not at the point of giving that verdict. I do agree it is a serious offense, especially if done deliberately,
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
When we don't have the autographs, understandably, what's to do?

Have you Google image searched the books of the bible? New or old testaments.
Fragments. Maybe a page but with a huge gap. Fascinating to look and see what remains now.
See post #123 above. Some say the NT is basically a commentary on the OT. At least the OT has been proven 'tamper-proof'.
 
Jun 28, 2022
1,258
383
83
Okay, that's up to you. But it's about more than someone being in trouble with God. It's about someone tampering with the scriptures and I think anyone who's concerned about knowing the truth would want to know who it was. Not so the guilty parties will "be in trouble," but so fewer people will be deceived.
With the news about Creflo Dollar, that's a blessing that is all over the Net. If his parishioners don't hear him as a conman with a new $cheme, that's sad but maybe God's plan.

We know pastors face a strict judgement. Does Creflo?🤔
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
With the news about Creflo Dollar, that's a blessing that is all over the Net. If his parishioners don't hear him as a conman with a new $cheme, that's sad but maybe God's plan.

We know pastors face a strict judgement. Does Creflo?🤔
Yes!
2 Peter 2:1-3 KJV
[1] But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. [2] And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. [3] And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
 
May 22, 2020
2,382
358
83
if you follow their exchange, he accused her of not being a Christian when she pointed out that politics and religion are irrevocably intertwined. she responded with basically "wow"

so the 'name calling' actually started with @peldom10 not with @Mem -- and if you know much of pel's history on the forum, and his embroilment in all things secularly-republican, contrasted with mem's near total disinvolvement with politics, then pel's crazy accusation and mem's rebuff make more sense.


That is not true...I pointed out the difference of being politically oriented vs righteous oriented. One can make it fit or not...your choice.

where did you get that from?

Another leftist transference.

Geesscchh!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
That is not true...I pointed out the difference of being politically oriented vs righteous oriented. One can make it fit or not...your choice.

where did you get that from?
from here:

For the God fearing original Bible believing Christian....we must separate ourselves from conflicting politics.
Otherwise you are a secular politically based sinner.
as opposed to you being a religious politically based sinner? The point is that not even those that claim secular positions can legitimately claim 'no religion,' and neither can those that claim religion legitimately remove themselves from politics.
If you were Christian oriented...you would not have that question.
mem pointed out that a person who gives themselves to politics remains political even tho they may claim religion as their justification.
your response was to call her unchristian.

then:


Another leftist transference.

Geesscchh!
you oddly cast some weird secular political slur at me, in fact justifying mem's observation that claiming religion does not legitimately remove yourself from politicking.
 
Jun 28, 2022
1,258
383
83
Yes!
2 Peter 2:1-3 KJV
[1] But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. [2] And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. [3] And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
There is also James warning.
James 3:1 says, “Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.”

https://www.gotquestions.org/teachers-judged-more-strictly.html
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
It doesn't say adding or taking away 'truth' but adding or taking away 'words'.

Revelation 22:18 (KJV) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Why must we complicate that which is spoken quite clear as a warning?
Keyword: heareth

All of that depends on whether or not someone audibly heard the words of the prophecy of that book. That might sound like splitting hairs, but that’s literally what Revelation 22:18 says.

Are deaf people exempt from Revelation 22:18?
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
I consider myself a moderate cautioning against taking scripture both too simply and too complexly.
There’s certainly a fine balance, but I steer more toward scrutinizing the finer details. The Bible is very wordy with a lot of information packed into short sentences. Every word counts in the Bible.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
I will add another can of worms to the Op.
How many "add to" or "take away" from the text by not understanding because they don't properly study to show themselves approved?
The word “study” here isn’t used in a scholarly sense where you’re supposed to sit down, devote time, and attention to acquiring knowledge from the Bible.

Study in 2 Tim. 2:15 more accurately translates to “make every effort” or “try hard.”

G4704 spoudazó (source: BibleHub)
Strong's Concordance
spoudazó: to make haste, hence to give diligence
Original Word: σπουδάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: spoudazó
Phonetic Spelling: (spoo-dad'-zo)
Definition: to make haste, to give diligence
Usage: I hasten, am eager, am zealous.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
Keyword: heareth

All of that depends on whether or not someone audibly heard the words of the prophecy of that book. That might sound like splitting hairs, but that’s literally what Revelation 22:18 says.

Are deaf people exempt from Revelation 22:18?
I believe this was discussed earlier…

Revelation 22:18 KJV
[18] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

It also says ‘written’, so it could be taken along the lines of “All that hear the prophecy of this Book, let it be known that whoever adds to the words written in this book, God will add the plagues etc.”.

Thus the warning isn’t directly directed at the hearers, deaf people included.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
I believe this was discussed earlier…

Revelation 22:18 KJV
[18] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

It also says ‘written’, so it could be taken along the lines of “All that hear the prophecy of this Book, let it be known that whoever adds to the words written in this book, God will add the plagues etc.”.

Thus the warning isn’t directly directed at the hearers, deaf people included.
okay I can kinda see that, but it looks like he is only addressing people that hear the words of the prophecy.

Kinda like if I wrote you a letter, “Dear crossnote” then everything in the letter is addressed to you. In the same sense, John seems to be saying “Dear people who hear the words of this prophecy” which, to me, means it’s only to people who hear the prophecy. Who knows for sure.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
okay I can kinda see that, but it looks like he is only addressing people that hear the words of the prophecy.

Kinda like if I wrote you a letter, “Dear crossnote” then everything in the letter is addressed to you. In the same sense, John seems to be saying “Dear people who hear the words of this prophecy” which, to me, means it’s only to people who hear the prophecy. Who knows for sure.
How about this? “Those of you who are hearing these words, don’t even think of adding or taking away these words, written or orally etc”.