false gospel

[needmesomejesus]

Then James 2:24 is false and the people who believe "faith without works is dead" are deceived. And so Martin Luther alone is right, and we should remove the book of James from the New Testament. And we should add the word "alone" to Romans 3:28, even though the word "alone" is not there in the Greek NT. We must listen to what Martin Luther says, because he says it is so, it must be so. He said. "I will have it so. And it is so. It is so, because I, Martin Luther, say it is so." His reply to Dr. Link in 1529 AD.
In Erie Scott Harrington

1st off James was written to believers. So James isn't questioning their salvation. Ephesians 2:8-9 clearly says that you can't be saved by your works God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. This verse is talking about if you don't have works along with your faith no one else will know you are saved. So when you get to the believer's judgment and Christ asks you what you did for Him you won't have anything to say because no one knew you were saved. That doesn't make you less Christian than others. And you not having works does not affect where you will spend eternity.

 

[Abiding]

Faith justifies....faith which worketh by Love. Love is a work and produces fruit. So faith produces works and fruit. Faith without works isnt faith...stretching
forth a whithered hand was a work of faith. Hairslitting dogma is boring isnt it.

 

[4runner]

Originally Posted by FireOnTheAltar

Just because God's love is unconditional, that does not mean that salvation is. While salvation is indeed the work of the Holy Spirit and not the work of man, one must surrender to the call to the Holy Spirit to be saved. The same holds true through out our Christian walk. The role of the Holy Spirit is to clean us up and lead us into Christ likeness, to become an "over comer". That is the will of God for every believer however, this can not be accomplished if the so called believer continually refuses to yield to the call of the Holy Spirit. Now God is more than willing to forgive when we are willing to yield to the Holy Spirit through repentance however, if we continue to refuse to repent, the Holy Spirit can and will abandon you to a reprobate mind per Romans chapter 1.

I have found in numerous cases that the doctrine of Unconditional Eternity Security produces religious sinners consumed with religious pride under the assumption that they can now live however they like without regard for God, salvation or the Holy Spirit. This mindset is an absolute abomination in comparison to scripture.

Excellent post brother

this is SO WRONG.

Once again Zone I feel sad for you. I will pray God will deliver you from your deception

 

[4runner]

Originally Posted by 4runner

I wonder what Jesus meant by this?

Revelation 2: 5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Crazy guy He believed whole churches much less individuals could fall away, and crazier still He believed in repentance and works
According to eg Jesus was a conditional, Lordship, works salvationist heretic.

hmm. So if I am a believer, and not under blessing but under chasticement to get me to return. What kind of Light can I show to the world? Seems like it would be extinguished. And I could do nothing for God.

You are exactly right, as Jesus said in Matthew 7 ''first get the plank out of your eye''.

 

[4runner]

Jesus didnt say could fall or might fall, He said they already fell.
If they didnt repent they would lose their witness and usefullness.
Why? becuase they left their first love.

They were doing all the works a church could do, they failed in no work.

I agree, and that shows we can fall, thereby making the teaching of eternal security or OSAS false

 

[4runner]

Nor do I understand that people do not understand that if I live 20 years longer, and never commit another sin (which is impossible I might add)

All thing are possible with God
Matthew 19:26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Ephesians 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

God can do all thing if you believe
Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

It is impossible for you eg, because you refuse to believe

 

[4runner]

I would love to see where in the Bible it says you have to wait till you die or are raptured to receive eternal salvation.

Matthew 24
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

2nd Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

Hebrews 3
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:


Here are 6 passage of scripture that says we must finish the race/endure until the end to obtain eternal life as Paul says in Philippians 3
Philippians 3
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

And again in 1st Corinthians
1st Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


Paul knew starting the race meant nothing, but finishing the race brought about eternal life.


I have shown you many passages that says we must endure to be granted eternal life, now you give me one that says starting the race is all we must do.

 

[JaumeJ]

My original message is AMEN..........it still is. (I just discovered that the quick reply requires more than ten characters.)

 

[4runner]

The biggest verse used to combat eternal security is Hebrews 6:3-6 For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come—and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame. The only problem with that verse is that its says if you do lose your salvation you will never gain it back. So according to losing your salvation theory if you do lose your salvation is is IMPOSSIBLE to gain it back. So if you go with that verse if you turn away from Christ you are damned to hell and you will never be forgiven again. Just something to think about

You are wrong on many areas in this one post
#1 Hebrews 6:4-6 is not the main passage that disproves OSAS
#2 you must read it closer. It doesnt say anyone that falls away cant be reconciled, it says ''those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come'' if they should fall away tit is impossible to turn them back to repentance

These that have known the Lord so intimately and still at some point walk away from Him WILL NOT repent, not that they CANNOT.

 

[4runner]

ah but they have to know who the Holy Spirit is and experience the good things of Heaven and been entrusted with the power of the age to come first for that curse to take into effect. most don't even know what the power of the age to come is much less have tasted of it.

Exactly...........

 

[needmesomejesus]

You are wrong on many areas in this one post
#1 Hebrews 6:4-6 is not the main passage that disproves OSAS
#2 you must read it closer. It doesnt say anyone that falls away cant be reconciled, it says ''those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come'' if they should fall away tit is impossible to turn them back to repentance

These that have known the Lord so intimately and still at some point walk away from Him WILL NOT repent, not that they CANNOT.

Hmm... interesting I've seen many people who were close to Christ and walked away and still came back. Also once you're in Christ hands you can't be plucked away. Romans 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Red33]

Hmm... interesting I've seen many people who were close to Christ and walked away and still came back. Also once you're in Christ hands you can't be plucked away. Romans 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

That is the hope and assurance that anchors our soul. That is God's faithfulness to those that He has purchased with His own blood. That is God promising to never leaving or forsaking us in any way. That is God starting a good work in us and performing it until the day of redemption when He takes us home. And that is the Father that waits with patience and longsuffering for the return of His prodigal son and restores him 100 % with no probation and no remembrance of his sins, might I add.

Can't be plucked and can't be separated. The prodigal son tried to separate himself but ended up coming back. He was dead but is alive again. Some believers, like to the elder son, didn't like that and didn't like the unconditional mercy and grace that the Father showed to His prodigal son by restoring him despite all his willful sin of riotous living, that included living it up with prostitutes (harlots). I am not condoning his sin, but it was not an issue to the Father that restored him and rejoiced in his return with a huge celebration. The Father never brought up his sin, only his elder brother did that.

 

[4runner]

Hmm... interesting I've seen many people who were close to Christ and walked away and still came back. Also once you're in Christ hands you can't be plucked away. Romans 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I notice you ignored the passages I gave about enduring to the end. Secondly I see you are not quite grasping what the writer of Hebrews is trying to say in Hebrews 6, thirdly just because no one else can cost you your salvation doesnt mean you do not have the free will to walk away, lastly, although it is true that nothing can separate us from God's will doesnt mean that nothing can separate us from a relationship with Him

 

[AnandaHya]

Hmm... interesting I've seen many people who were close to Christ and walked away and still came back. Also once you're in Christ hands you can't be plucked away. Romans 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

once you are in Christ you can never be lost, but first you must examine your heart and ask yourself. do you truly believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior and that HE love YOU and died on the cross for you. then you must confess with your mouth with a believing heart that Jesus is Lord and Savior, died on the cross and ROSE AGAIN for your sins.

then God will send the Holy Spirit to seal you and your life and you will never be lost. You must keep faith and keep believing in His promise.

He loves YOU. I have faith that some day you will believe it too with your whole heart.

see you in heaven sis.

 

[AnandaHya]

here's an interesting verse I've been wondering about. why does it say the person will still be in Heaven? personally I don't care if I'm least or great as long as I make it through the gates at least that was what I was thinking but what are your thoughts on it?

Matthew 5:19
Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[needmesomejesus]

I notice you ignored the passages I gave about enduring to the end. Secondly I see you are not quite grasping what the writer of Hebrews is trying to say in Hebrews 6, thirdly just because no one else can cost you your salvation doesnt mean you do not have the free will to walk away, lastly, although it is true that nothing can separate us from God's will doesnt mean that nothing can separate us from a relationship with Him

sorry i did not see those ill reply to those directly. I beleive once you're truly saved you can't walk away no matter how hard you try. You may say you hate God, but in your heart you know the truth about God. I say this because I'm a living example. I think you are confusing a broken relationship with God with a broken fellowship with God.

 

[needmesomejesus]

Matthew 24
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

2nd Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

Hebrews 3
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:


Here are 6 passage of scripture that says we must finish the race/endure until the end to obtain eternal life as Paul says in Philippians 3
Philippians 3
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

And again in 1st Corinthians
1st Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


Paul knew starting the race meant nothing, but finishing the race brought about eternal life.


I have shown you many passages that says we must endure to be granted eternal life, now you give me one that says starting the race is all we must do.

matthew 24 is talking about being persecuted so i don't understand how that applies to the topic. also mark 13:13 is talking about the difference b/w believers and nonbelievers.
2 timothy is specifically talking about paul before he dies
hebrews 3 - i don't think it has to do w/ losing your salvation
i don't understand philipians 3
1 cor 9:27 and i don't understand that either
eternal life is given as soon as you become a believer these passages don't say you have to live a life of good works to obtain it. that's not biblical.

 

[CB]

Does our understanding or belief in eternal security or not believing dictate a "false gospel"?? Is it our understanding of dead doctrines that save us or our simple faith in a RISEN Christ? The gospel was for lay people, i.e. the poor, the illiterate, the hurting, the outcast (sermon on mount). Never did Christ affirm the neccessity to believe in peculiar doctrines and especially never did he advocate a westernized version of christianity that excludes others who share in his life. Christ saves and when he does its to the uttermost! Not our understandings of various theological points. Salvation is his to give and he doesn't give it based on our "correct doctrines". Jesus said to those religous leaders of his day "You examine the Scriptures carefully because you suppose that in them you have eternal life. Yet they testify about me" John 5:39.

 

[4runner]

matthew 24 is talking about being persecuted so i don't understand how that applies to the topic. also mark 13:13 is talking about the difference b/w believers and nonbelievers.
2 timothy is specifically talking about paul before he dies
hebrews 3 - i don't think it has to do w/ losing your salvation
i don't understand philipians 3
1 cor 9:27 and i don't understand that either
eternal life is given as soon as you become a believer these passages don't say you have to live a life of good works to obtain it. that's not biblical.

Your right it doesnt say you have to live a life of good works to obtain eternal life. It says we must continue to believe/trust/ put our faith in Jesus until the very end of our lives to obtain eternal life. In Philippians 3 Paul tells us he has not yet obtained eternal life/resurrection of the just. If OSAS were true he would have obtain eternal life the very second he got saved

 

[4runner]

Does our understanding or belief in eternal security or not believing dictate a "false gospel"?? Is it our understanding of dead doctrines that save us or our simple faith in a RISEN Christ? The gospel was for lay people, i.e. the poor, the illiterate, the hurting, the outcast (sermon on mount). Never did Christ affirm the neccessity to believe in peculiar doctrines and especially never did he advocate a westernized version of christianity that excludes others who share in his life. Christ saves and when he does its to the uttermost! Not our understandings of various theological points. Salvation is his to give and he doesn't give it based on our "correct doctrines". Jesus said to those religous leaders of his day "You examine the Scriptures carefully because you suppose that in them you have eternal life. Yet they testify about me" John 5:39.

Your right the belief in eternal security for or against will not save you or damb you. However the application of eternal security can damb you.

Ask yourself:

1. Is this life, your pet theology, or your favorite sin worth your soul?
2. Would you not give up everything for a chance to spend eternity with God?
3. The great day of judgment will indeed come one day. are you ready today, to stand before God and give an account?