Believers Sins Are Forgiven & Washed Away Forever

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Jun 5, 2020
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#21
“we reject any suggestion that such chastisement could include damnation.”

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭

Judged by their own works both groups are saved though ? And not damned based on thier deeds ?

do you see salvation here also ?

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭

your think they are also saved who don’t repent and obey the gospel ? Bekng shut out from Christ and being punished with everlasting destruction ?


These also they’re saved ?

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they also are saved too who continue on willfully sinning making repentance irrelevant ?

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this reward for those who obey and do good

immortality, eternal life:

is the same as this

“obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil,”

indignation and wrath but they aren’t damned ? They are saved too ?

We who believe should all ask the question Peter poses here and let the scripture answer it for us

“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭4:17-18KJV‬‬

Paul answered that

the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭

when your reading Paul know that all he taught was meant to bring you into repentance and obedience to the gospel because it’s salvstion

“For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s what it’s all about because we have to answer for our deeds we can repent and be forgiven or we can refuse and serve sin d carry it all to judgement on this day

Paul had a message of terror among his epistles and spoke it to all of them as a warning

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God;
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we won’t accept the evil of sin and that we keep serving it well never find repentance which is what Gods waiting for

Why hasn’t Jesus come back yet ?

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we have to find repentance it’s the reason he came

I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭

why is it so important to Jesus ?

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he doesn’t want us to perish like in the beginning and allll throughout God is warning people and saying believe and be saved “

it’s simple really Jesus came to save sinners who had no hope of salvation before he came , all he requires is for us to hear his teachkngs and words hear about his death and resurrection and believe and follow those thkngs we learn that’s always going to save people but if we reject the clear truths about sin and repentance and judgement we’re rejecting the salvation he has offered us

we need tomlewrn to understand sin is poisonous to the human soul Christ came to take it’s done trim and dominion over us away we can be saved

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the New Testament solidifies this repeatedly if ye serve sin ye shall die but if you mortify the deeds of the flesh you will live
I didn't read your post because a) it's too long and b) more importantly, the emphases throughout the text make it difficult to read. Can't you say something without all the emphases?
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,267
432
83
#22
We need to be careful in how we present the remission or forgiveness of sins.

When a sinner repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, all his or her past sins are forgiven.

The Hyper-Grace crowd refuses to accept these teachings, and insists that once a person is saved they do not need to deal with their present sins. That is a lie.

Would you be kind enough to cite the scriptures on hyper grace that you tied this Forgiveness post to. Thx, in advance. FD

Repentance vs Faith

In relation to salvation, repentance means to change your mind from unbelief/rejection of who Christ is to belief/acceptance of Christ as God's Son. More specifically placing one's faith in Jesus's sin atoning sacrifice & resurrection.

Ultimately, there is only one sin that Jesus's payment doesn't/won't forgive/pardon: "Unbelief" in & the rejection of, Christ's sin payment & resurrection, until/at life's end/death. (We all die Heb 9:27)

Jn 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
(MY MOTE: You'll die in you sins if you don't repent from everyone? NO! You will die in your sins if you don't BELIEVE in Christ!)

I believe the word repentance is the most misunderstood & misused word in Christianity. Invariably people like you tie repent to every sins. Jesus added thoughts to the law (Matt 5:21-28) good luck controling/repenting from every single one of them.

Jn 12:32 Jesus said; And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
(MY NOTE: Jesus was in fact lifted up. Everybody is drawn to/offered salvation via God's Holy Spirit. Sadly, not everyone excepts/embraces it, by FAITH)

Jn 16:
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
(MY NOTE: The Holy Spirit will reprove/expose/convict everyone of, sins? NO of "SIN" singular.)

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
(NOTE: The only SIN that condemns one to eternal separation/damnation is UNBELIEF! Continued rejection of Christ's sin payment & resurrection, until/at life's end. Jesus sin payment covers/includes all sin except rejection of His finished works at life's end/your death)

1 Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
(MY NOTE: Anyone that believes they can conquer their own sin nature, without Gods help is mistaken)

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches """of his goodness""" and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that """the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance"""?
(MY NOTE: It's thru the GOODNESS of GOD not thru OUR OWN great work of sin repentance, obedience or self-control. That we REPENT/change our thinking/course. It's salvations seal of indwelling Holy Spirit that leads us to REPENT/change our thinking outlook & direction).

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all them which heard the word.
(MY NOTE: They Believed (vs43) & as Peter spoke (vs44) The Holy Spirit fell on them (vs45). NO REPENTANCE of any kind here, No water baptism, No circumcision, they brought no sin sacrifice to the Temple, No law keeping etc)

Thru faith & faith alone, placed in Jesus redemptive work & resurrection. These gentiles were given/received the baptism OF & were eternally sealed BY God's indwelling Holy Spirit (vs45) = SAVED - FINISHED TRANSACTION! Also see Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30/sealed until the day of redemption, Rom 8:38-39)

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life
(MY NOTE: God has GRANTED the gentiles repentance.)

Rom 1:5 "Through him we received grace" & apostleship "to call all the Gentiles to the obedience" "that comes from faith" for his name’s sake.
(MY NOTE: Believers are called to obedience thru faith")

Rom 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, ""so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience"" ""that comes from faith""
(MY NOTE: Obedience comes from faith)

Repentance doesn't forgive/pardon sin, water baptism doesn't forgive/pardon sin, obedience doesn't forgive/pardon sin, sabbath observance doesn't forgive/pardon sin, etc.

There's only ONE thing that can Purify/wash sin's stain off a soul. Faith placed in the sinless shed blood & resurrection of Jesus the Christ!

It's just sad when Christians claim what our great God & Savior suffered & died for, "OUR SINS", just isn't quite good enough. And somehow their great self-works [Ck Isa 64:6 on that one] is how we obtain God's GIFT of eternal life.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,267
432
83
#23
Yes, He forgives! His mercies are forever more, I am so grateful!! I need Him and His Grace everyday. I do believe He does expect us to walk with Him, with all we have, to lay down our lives. I just read this and thought it nice in its accuracy and simplicity....

Ours is to do our best and He covers their rest.

It isn't always easy but those things He wants us to do, or not do, make sense. He wants us to cause no harm to any neighbor or ourselves, to love, in thought, word and deed. When we are living to please Him our lives are usually more peaceful.

His mercy and our faith should be effectual and evident. None of us are Him though...in these imperfect bodies, we will always need His grace to cover.
Hi,
Agreed we should do our best to love God 1st & one another. Christ will do the rest.

Matt 22:
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 And Jesus replied to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’

38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself [that is, unselfishly seek the best or higher good for others].’

40 The whole Law and the [writings of the] Prophets depend on these two commandments.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22&version=AMP (Also see Mark 12:28-34, John 13:34-35)
(MY NOTE: If we truly love God & our brother. We won't kill, steal, covet, falsely accuse etc)

1 Jn 2:
1 My little children (believers, dear ones), I am writing you these things so that you will not sin and violate God’s law. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate [who will intercede for us] with the Father: Jesus Christ the righteous [the upright, the just One, who conforms to the Father’s will in every way—purpose, thought, and action].

2 And He [that same Jesus] is the propitiation for our sins [the atoning sacrifice that holds back the wrath of God that would otherwise be directed at us because of our sinful nature—our worldliness, our lifestyle]; and not for ours alone, but also for [the sins of all believers throughout] the whole world.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 John+2&version=AMP
(MY NOTE: Jesus is not only our sin atoning sacrifice, but also our interceding sin advocate & our final sin Judge [Jn 5:22]. Final sin verdict NOT GUILTY!)

Ultimately our commitment to the Lord is a marriage vow. Having said that, babes in Christ must, by faith, start somewhere. Understanding they are loved by Christ have been eternally forgiven.

It's a better starting point then today's unfortunate unscriptural presentations. That The Lord that died, to free them from sins (under Mosaic law) penalties. By taking ALL sins penalties upon Himself, on a cross. Additionally, no living person today has ever been under Mosaic law.

Finally:
True faith comes from the heart, Christ knows everyone's true heart.

1 Cor 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

If someone is making faith statements/confessions trying to cover their bases. They are only fooling themselves. Peace, FD
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,818
1,073
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Oregon
cfbac.org
#24
.
Some of the posts I see plastered hereabouts, with their excessively bold
oversize letters, resemble the obnoxious placards of frustrated activists;
shouting, baring their teeth, and spraying spittle.
_
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,215
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Midwest
#25
Eph 1:7 In Jesus Christ we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins,
(MY NOTE: Believers HAVE <Present Tense > redemption & FORGIVENESS of sins < Sins is Plural! Also see Col 1:14 & 2:13)

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(MY NOTE: Salvation is obtained by God's GIFT of grace [Rom 3:24, Eph 4:7]. Accessed thru faith placed in Jesus faithful sin atoning death & resurrection [Rom 5:1-2]

Eph 4:32 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
(MY NOTE: Written to believers see Col 1:2. Forgive each other as God FORGAVE < Past Tense/Done > you.)

Col 3:13 Bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.
(MY NOTE: Written to believers see [Col 1:2]. Vs 13 As the Lord has < Past Tense/Done > FORGIVEN you)
Amen! Totally agree, confirmed by Scripture:

The THREE Tenses Of God's ETERNAL Salvation:

"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not
trust in ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead: Who delivered
us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in Whom we trust that He
will yet deliver us;" (2 Corinthians 1:9-10 KJB!) =

Precious friend(s), Is not the Solution to Confusion recog-
nizing These THREE, And, Also, God's Differences Between
"HIS Relationship With us," And "our fellowship with HIM!"?

God's Will, Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE? Very Simply:

► faith ◄
1) Past Tense = "...God delivered us from so great a death...":

God Establishes HIS Eternal Relationship With
those who humbly repent and:

believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The LORD JESUS CHRIST,
HIS Death (
Precious BLOOD), Burial, And HIS Resurrection,
According To The Scriptures!

(1 Corinthians 15:3-4; cp Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5 KJB!)

"GRACE Through faith" In The Merits
Of HIS
ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Results:

All sins Forgiven, His Eternal Life, And, Peace With God!
(Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 2:13; Romans 6:23; Romans 5:1)

This Is Eternal Deliverance From the Penalty of sin,
The So Great A [Second ] Death! (Revelation 21:8) =
Justification
and Spiritual Sanctification
(2 Corinthians 1:10a cp Romans 3:24)

(More Biblical Confirmation is here: God's ETERNAL Assurance!
And here:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!)

► faith ◄
God's ETERNAL Justification/Relationship Is First, And, Then:

►► love ◄◄
(2) Present Tense = "...God doth deliver us...":

All believers Should do "good works" {Which will Never
Equal CHRIST's Payment For the above Penalty of sin!},
for Which we Are Created In CHRIST JESUS, to perform
for Him, having "been Called into fellowship With Him!"
(
Ephesians 2:10; 1 Corinthians 1:9) Amen?:

We "work out our own salvation" (Philippians 2:12). This
Should Be a lifetime of Daily submission, and renewing,
being "not conformed to this world" (Romans 12:1-2),
for Grace Deliverance From the power of sin!}
(2 Corinthians 1:10b) = personal sanctification:

(2a) Christ Living In us, To Fulfil:

All Of His Law, In "One Word: Love thy neighbor as thyself!"
(
Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10)

(2b) His Spirit Guiding and Teaching us, How To:

"Study to shew thyself Approved Unto God, work-man that
needeth not
to be ashamed, Rightly Dividing The Word Of Truth!"
(
2 Timothy 2:15 KJB)

Eternal Results: reward [or loss *] (1 Corinthians 3:8-15),
ruling and reigning [or not *] With CHRIST, Which Will Finally Be
At The Judgment Day!


* More study: Finishing The Race
►► love ◄◄:

►►► Blessed HOPE! ◄◄◄
(3) Future Tense = "...God Will Yet Deliver us":

CHRIST's Glorification of All "members" Of HIS Body!!
{This Is Eternal
Deliverance From the Presence of sin!}
(1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-57;
2 Corinthians 1:10c). Hallelujah! Praise HIS Excellent Name!!
----------------------------------
Conclusion: Of course, Many Still Refuse to believe God's Own BLOOD
Is ALL-Sufficient for TOTAL Payment For
their sins; how then does the
"sinners payment" EQUAL "God's PAYMENT"? still Baffling to me, but:

BIG Differences Between the THREE tenses Of God's Eternal Salvation,
And Between God's Relationship And our fellowship! Correct?

Please Be Very Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!:

(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 3:9 GRACE/Mystery
fellowship
{Romans – Philemon}, For AllTo See,” today?)
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,145
5,722
113
#26
I didn't read your post because a) it's too long and b) more importantly, the emphases throughout the text make it difficult to read. Can't you say something without all the emphases?
“I didn't read your post because a) it's too long “


Yeah the real way to really understand the Bible , is to avoid the huge volume of repeated scripture saying the same thing. Got it 🙂

“more importantly, the emphases throughout the text make it difficult to read. Can't you say something without all the emphases?”


And sure since you are genuinely willing to consider scripture for you I sure will

so I hope you’ll actually read this and actually reply to what’s there rather than seeking to avoid it so here you are upon your request this is what nearly 70 years has taught me

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of

the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:


but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m pretty sure it’s not the emphasis I’m using that makes it hard to grasp , I think it’s an unwillingness to acknolwedge what’s there

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see it still says the same thing no matter whether the letters are bold doesn’t change the message that you disagree with

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬ ‭

Again after we receive the Holy Spirit we can’t keep living like we’re filled with a sinful spirit we can’t serve satans Will me live in Christ at the same time

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;

but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God.

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:15

Why repent we’re already saved

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Wait is Jesus actually telling us something that can save us from perishing ? Is he trying to save us by telling us the truth about sin and repentance ?

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’ll stop there because I don’t think you’ll acknolwedge any of it bold or not . But there ya go any more complaints to avoid what it says ?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#27
Would you be kind enough to cite the scriptures on hyper grace that you tied this Forgiveness post to. Thx, in advance. FD
I will quote from Got Questions, since they have an article on this subject: "The term hyper-grace has been used to describe a new wave of teaching that emphasizes the grace of God to the exclusion of other vital teachings such as repentance and confession of sin. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it."
https://www.gotquestions.org/hyper-grace.html
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#28
One grace is true and teaches us repentance and to live right and live lives being accountable for the things we do wrong not pretend don’t we’re not accountable now can you imagine Gods children on earth sinning against everyone and claiming I’m saved I’m Gods child I can live anyway I wish d inherit salvstion anyways
If one reads all of the posts, one need not imagine, for it appears right here.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,267
432
83
#29
I will quote from Got Questions, since they have an article on this subject: "The term hyper-grace has been used to describe a new wave of teaching that emphasizes the grace of God to the exclusion of other vital teachings such as repentance and confession of sin. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it."
https://www.gotquestions.org/hyper-grace.html
So, as usual no scripture to support of your false claim. Only because you say so.

I can't find hyper grace in any bible. I can't find gotquestions in any version either.

Sorry, that doesn't work for me. I stand behind the verses I posted in the OP . And the scripture I cited in my reply to you. You're free to believe & promote your heart, as am I.

To be clear, neither in this post, nor at any other (I've placed 100's). Have I ever advocated ungodly living or claimed one can sin with impunity.

Nor have I ever said sin doesn't have consequence.

I've said we access righteousness, justification, salvation through faith (Rom 5:1-2) & not thru works (Eph 2:9), obedience, repentance etc.

Sin can bring consequence that may manifest itself, in many different ways. A health issue, a broken relationship, disease, lost rewards earned etc.

A believer's sin will not result in the loss of salvation. Unlike you, I'll provide scripture (1 Cor 3 below) that support my position/belief. BTW, Unbelief is the only unforgivable sin, that can't be cleansed by the blood of Christ.

1 Cor 3:
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
(MY NOTE: Rewards are given based on work done in Christ's name. Even a drink of water given is His name will receive a reward (Matt 10:42, Mk 9:41 )

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
(MY NOTE: Gold & silver = Good works done in Christ's name. Hay, wood & stubble = no works, selfish works, even bad works)

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
(MY NOTE: Every work good & bad will be tested)

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
(MY NOTE: Good works done in Christ's name will receive a reward)

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
(MY NOTE: Hay, wood & stubble deeds will burn-up, bringing shame & loss = "Of Rewards". Not the loss of one's salvation)

Rereading verse 15: he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Christ bought us/our sins for a price, His sinless life:

Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and "hath given himself" for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had "by himself purged our sins", sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

1 Cor 6:20 For "ye are bought with a price": therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Cor 7:23 "Ye are bought with a price"; be not ye the servants of men.

Tit 2:14 "Who gave himself for us", that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

2 Cor 1:
9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:

10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us

All the praise, glory & honor, belongs to our great God & Savior, Jesus the Christ! AMEN & Amen
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
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#30
“we reject any suggestion that such chastisement could include damnation.”

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭

Judged by their own works both groups are saved though ? And not damned based on thier deeds ?

do you see salvation here also ?

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭

your think they are also saved who don’t repent and obey the gospel ? Bekng shut out from Christ and being punished with everlasting destruction ?


These also they’re saved ?

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they also are saved too who continue on willfully sinning making repentance irrelevant ?

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this reward for those who obey and do good

immortality, eternal life:

is the same as this

“obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil,”

indignation and wrath but they aren’t damned ? They are saved too ?

We who believe should all ask the question Peter poses here and let the scripture answer it for us

“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭4:17-18KJV‬‬

Paul answered that

the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭

when your reading Paul know that all he taught was meant to bring you into repentance and obedience to the gospel because it’s salvstion

“For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s what it’s all about because we have to answer for our deeds we can repent and be forgiven or we can refuse and serve sin d carry it all to judgement on this day

Paul had a message of terror among his epistles and spoke it to all of them as a warning

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God;
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we won’t accept the evil of sin and that we keep serving it well never find repentance which is what Gods waiting for

Why hasn’t Jesus come back yet ?

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we have to find repentance it’s the reason he came

I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭

why is it so important to Jesus ?

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he doesn’t want us to perish like in the beginning and allll throughout God is warning people and saying believe and be saved “

it’s simple really Jesus came to save sinners who had no hope of salvation before he came , all he requires is for us to hear his teachkngs and words hear about his death and resurrection and believe and follow those thkngs we learn that’s always going to save people but if we reject the clear truths about sin and repentance and judgement we’re rejecting the salvation he has offered us

we need tomlewrn to understand sin is poisonous to the human soul Christ came to take it’s done trim and dominion over us away we can be saved

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the New Testament solidifies this repeatedly if ye serve sin ye shall die but if you mortify the deeds of the flesh you will live
So YOU are plumb outta luck

No WAY are you holy enough to be saved by your holiness.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
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#31
lol huh ?

no the lord said what he said To us and said believe it and you’ll be saved

it just says what it says and I believe it it’s not “ Christ already did everything g for me “ it is “ God has remade me at the core and I can do all thkngs through Christ who gives me strength “


Christ is about taking broken lost people and making them strong faithful children of God who are empowered by his nature and spirit to overcome Satan me his plot to kill us

God is informing us of the truth

our goal is to walk to walk d he’s the one who gives us the strength to do so and be saved no I think we couldn’t manage without God , but with him we are well able “


This doesn’t mean we now get to re wrote salvation Christ is able to change the sinner in us to a righteous child of God who’s able to walk

“I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭4:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christ is about empowering us to do what we need to do this is dependance upon him but not independent from his word

salvstion is explained well in scripture it’s not a hostage situation or forcible thing but an true and sure offer that if we accept the gospel and believe we shall be saved

as we hear and believe our expectations are going to grow in the end we’re going to be new kind of person o isn’t driven by satans Will but by Gods Will just as we say “ we’re all just helpless sinners “ we can come to place where we say “ we are the children of God free ofnthe dominion of sin well able to walk upright lives because of him

no one can manage without God but this doesn’t mean his words aren’t true and correct that require of us that’s always been the plan

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22-24, 26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus teaches us about true salvstion and it does require of us
You are speaking about going on with the Lord which Peter says we are foolish if we do not do so, forgetting that we have been washed of our sins.

But you cannot go on with the Lord, you can't grow, you can't add virtue to faith until you are CERTAIN that you are elect, saved. Holiness is KNOWING, knowing that He has already done it.

We ARE sanctified [people love Hebrews don't they] for all time by a single sacrifice when we come to Him by faith. It must be so else if we sin deliberately after we have no further sacrifice THAT'S what Hebrews teaches throughout.
We've got to press on beyond the basics not keep going over the same old ground ... hold fast our first confession which is the cross, the single sacrifice which once for all time sanctified us ...

If you are struggling to attain sanctification [holiness] you are not believing, our struggle is not against sin, only Jesus ever did that and won. Our struggle is for FAITH to BELIEVE it.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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#32
I thank The Lord for his Grace. Only by His grace can a sinful wretched creature like me, be transformed into something useful or somewhat pleasing to Heaven. Ephesians2:8-9 For by Grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works lest any man should boast
Well said, AMEN & Amen
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,481
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#33
God is the one who began this good work in you, and I am certain that he won't stop before it is complete on the day that Christ Jesus returns.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
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#34
We need to be careful in how we present the remission or forgiveness of sins.

1. It is Christ Himself who said that repentance is necessary for the forgiveness of sins.

2. When a sinner repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, all his or her past sins are forgiven.

3. At the same time, the old Adamic sin nature is NOT eradicated. The tendency to sin remains.

4. Therefore believers are commanded to "crucify the flesh" and to "walk in the Spirit".

5. However it is possible for Christians to sin, and they can and do sin after salvation. There is no sinless perfection for those who have been saved. But there is imputed righteousness.

6. Therefore the Bible addresses Christians and says that if we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. We also make God a liar.

7. But if we confess our sins (which includes repentance) God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

8. However some Christians may not repent and change their ways, and therefore there is also a "sin unto death" for those who are believers.

9. Therefore Paul warns Christians to examine themselves, particularly before partaking of the Lord's Supper. Those who partake unworthily may be subject to premature death (the sin unto death).

10. The Hyper-Grace crowd refuses to accept these teachings, and insists that once a person is saved they do not need to deal with their present sins. That is a lie.
Faith and works....not for me? Not for me, thank the Lord! After I am saved and have the right foundation, my obedience will be judged at the judgment seat of Christ for rewards or the lack thereof, not for salvation. See 1 Corinthians 3.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#36
Faith and works....not for me? Not for me, thank the Lord!
How did you arrive at this bizarre conclusion? This thread has nothing to do with faith vs works. It has everything to do with sin vs righteousness.
 
Jun 28, 2022
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#37
Ps 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us.

Eph 1:7 In Jesus Christ we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins,
(MY NOTE: Believers HAVE <Present Tense > redemption & FORGIVENESS of sins < Sins is Plural! Also see Col 1:14 & 2:13)

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(MY NOTE: Salvation is obtained by God's GIFT of grace [Rom 3:24, Eph 4:7]. Accessed thru faith placed in Jesus faithful sin atoning death & resurrection [Rom 5:1-2]

Eph 4:32 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
(MY NOTE: Written to believers see Col 1:2. Forgive each other as God FORGAVE < Past Tense/Done > you.)

Col 3:13 Bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.
(MY NOTE: Written to believers see [Col 1:2]. Vs 13 As the Lord has < Past Tense/Done > FORGIVEN you)

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
(MY NOTE: Christ obtained ETERNAL REDEMPTION for us)

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
(MY NOTE: This new sin management covenant is EVERLASTING. Not just 1 year or until the next time to stumble N fall)

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
(MY NOTE: Christ PERFECTED FOREVER those He has sanctified)

Ps 37:28 (A) For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever,
(MY NOTE: He PRESERVES his saints FOREVER)

Rev 1:5 Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto Jesus Christ that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
(MY NOTE: ALL our sins washed/removed/forgiven. Also see Col 1:14 & 2:13)

Believer's sins are forgiven & washed away via an EVERLASTING COVENANT!

KJ Bible Dictionary: FORGIV'EN - Pardoned remitted.
https://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-dictionary/forgiven.html

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Forgiven - [ A-2,Verb,G5483, charizomai ]
"to bestow a favor unconditionally," is used of the act of "forgiveness," whether Divine, Ephesians 4:32; Colossians 2:13; Colossians 3:13; or human, Luke 7:42-Luke 7:43 (debt); 2 Corinthians 2:7, 2 Corinthians 2:10; 2 Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:32 (1st mention)

King James Bible dictionary say's: Believers' sins are PARDONED.

Vines Bible dictionary say's: The believer's sin forgiveness is UNCONDITIONAL & NOT until the next time you slip/fall/sin. AMEN & Amen
True.

However, as you may know, you've now provided an open invitation to the Adversary by making this post.

There shall come that which abrogates the scriptures and insists Salvation is work on their part.
 
Jun 28, 2022
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#38
Faith and works....not for me? Not for me, thank the Lord! After I am saved and have the right foundation, my obedience will be judged at the judgment seat of Christ for rewards or the lack thereof, not for salvation. See 1 Corinthians 3.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Amen. 🕊️ We who are in Christ have Christ in us. The spirit leads us in the path of righteousness.

There are those who believe they labor to obey and thus retain Salvation.

It's sad. 😢 The human nature is egocentric.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
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113
#39
How did you arrive at this bizarre conclusion? This thread has nothing to do with faith vs works. It has everything to do with sin vs righteousness.
Brother, I believe I misread your post. Forgive me. We are on the same page. Many believers never get out from under their sin...poor discipleship...poor churches...no involvement with other believers...many factors may come into play especially in this day where there are sooooo many weak churches.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,267
432
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#40
How did you arrive at this bizarre conclusion? This thread has nothing to do with faith vs works. It has everything to do with sin vs righteousness.
Above was you reply to this post:
Post #34 where: John146 said:
Faith and works....not for me? Not for me, thank the Lord!

Nehemiah6, you promote/demand repentance & confession for every post conversion sin. These actions require acts of self-works. Not to mention it's an impossible task. Jesus added thoughts to keeping Mosaic law (Matt 5:21-28)

In post #12 you said this:
5. However it is possible for Christians to sin, and they can and do sin after salvation. There is no sinless perfection for those who have been saved. But there is imputed righteousness.

Nehemiah6, Is Christ's righteousness imputed or earned from repenting (self-works) & confessing (self-works) from every post conversion sin? Righteousness is a gift from God. Gifts are given, not earned.

In post #12 (5 above) was written to me. Please reply with any post I've said anything about a believer's sinless perfection. Thx, in advance FD