Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[brightfame52]

renewed

our repentance is not required
lie

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 11:20 Then began he [Jesus] to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not

Mark 6:12 And they [the 12 apostles] went out, and preached that men should repent

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;


... just a sampling. But clearly your erroneous dogma is not in alignment with Scripture.
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Repentance isn't required to be performed by the sinner to get Justified or saved, its an evidence of having been given repentance by the Lord. God gives repentance to His elect Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 11:18

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Repentance unto God is the fruit of the New Birth, its not in the natural man as Im sure you suppose it is !

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Listen, what you are ignorant of is the fact that the grave could not, under any circumstances, hold the Lord Jesus Christ:

Acts 2:

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

...

27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

And your point ? This doesnt invalidate the fact that when Christ rose from the dead, that it was evidence that those He died for had been Justified Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

 

[brightfame52]

brightfame52 said:
The Resurrection of Christ is evidence that all for whom He died and rose again in behalf of, that they have been credited with Justification of Life
the Lord Jesus Christ died for all descendants of Adam ... the world ... the whole world.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


Under your erroneous dogma you have to manipulate the plain words of Scripture to align with your error. That is improper interpretation of Scripture. You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where your dogma is in error you are to let go of the error.
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False teaching, Jesus Christ died for everyone who has been Justified, so those scriptures[world] relate to the Justified !

 

[FreeGrace2]

The elect have been chosen and placed in Christ by the Father before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The "us" in Eph 1:4 is clearly explained/defined in Eph 1:19 as "US who believe".

So, iow, v.4 actually reads: "According as He has chosen BELIEVERS in Him before the foundation of the world"

However, the rest of the verse specifies the PURPOSE of this election/choosing.

"that (purpose clause) we (believers) should be holy and without blame before Him".

Believers are chosen for service to Him.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So the elect have always been in Christ by the purpose and election of God !

This poster quotes to "support" this claim, but it is false.

The ONLY WAY to be "in Christ" is by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and being placed there by the Holy Spirit. So the whole idea of 'the elect have always been in Christ" ig ignores clear Scripture.

Eph 1-
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

But no surprise. Calvinists have never been known for rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Again Justification before God is prior to Faith in Christ, its based on the Blood of Christ Rom 5:9

Well, this poster is clearly "on a roll". A roll of false claims.

Justification before God is on the basis of faith in Christ.

Acts 13:39 - Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses
Rom 3:28 - For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Rom 4-
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, has discovered? If Abraham was indeed justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not before God.
Rom 5:1 - Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
Rom 5:9 - Therefore, since we have now been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from wrath through Him!

What this poster fails to grasp is that 5:9 speaks of the target of one's faith, meaning Christ's work on the cross. We know this from Rom 3 and 4, plus 5:1, all of which teaches that our justification is based on our believing in the work of Christ on the cross.

Therefore, justification before God is based on our faith in Christ. It doesn't occur before, as this poster opines.

 

[FreeGrace2]

False teaching, Jesus Christ died for everyone who has been Justified, so those scriptures[world] relate to the Justified !

The false teaching is to claim that Christ DIDN'T DIE FOR EVERYONE, as this poster does frequently.

He died for everyone so that no one has any excuse for ending up in the LOF.

Consider this: if Christ HADN'T died for a person, that person WOULD HAVE a clear excuse for being in the LOF, and claiming that God wasn't fair, since all humans are sinners anyway.

Calvinism creates excuses for all who will end up in the LOF, if Christ didn't die for them.

And Calvinism gives unbelievers a reasonable charge that God is unfair. They can't explain why God chose some for heaven and the rest for the LOF.

In reality, since God has already revealed Himself, per Rom 1:19-21, and the grace of God that brings appears, offering salvation to everyone (Titus 2:11), no one has any excuse for not recognizing Him as Creator and being thankful to Him, and seeking for Him, as Acts 17:27 says.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

James 4:12 ... who art thou that judgest another?

God gave me the right to judge what a person says about salvation Matt 7:15-20

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Knowing evil fruit takes judgment does it not ?

Also 1 Jn 4:1-3

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Thats word try is the greek word dokimazō :

1. to test, examine, prove, scrutinise (to see whether a thing is genuine or not), as metals
2. to recognise as genuine after examination, to approve, deem worthy

That takes good judgment to do, and its an imperative.

Besides, dont be hypocritical, you been judging everything I post.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Romans 3:

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


And please do not ignore the fact that Scripture makes clear that faith ≠ works

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Already dealt with, you have a spurious understanding of Faith and believing, you have dilapidated and cheapened them to human actions of the flesh.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

when you read Rom 5:9, have you already forgotten what you read in Rom 5:1? ... and the verses in Rom 4 which tell us faith ≠ works???

God expects us to keep in mind what we have read in Scripture so we do not make the same mistake you have made in wholly removing justification by faith as shown in Rom 4 – Rom 5:1.

Quit trying to force Scripture to align with your erroneous dogma. You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where your dogma is in error, let go of the error.

False accusation, I have explained Rom 5:1 in light of Rom 5:9 and again, Faith in Vs 1 receives as a testimony the Truth of Vs 9 of having been Justified by Christs blood.
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[brightfame52]

It is written

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


Your erroneous dogma has failed again when the light of Scripture scrutinizes your fallacious claims.
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Says nothing about Faith being a requirement in order for God to Justify a person. A Person is Justified by the blood of Christ and the Grace of God Rom 5:9; 3:24

You add works to justification. You live by the sword, you die by it. Hope you can keep the whole Law !

 

[brightfame52]

What is Justification of Life ?

Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

This scripture has always been handled deceitfully by the adversaries of the Gospel, they force it to say and mean all men without exception have a chance at being Justified, and that Christ died for all men without exception, yet that is not true; This scripture applies to the Church, the Body of Christ, whom is the Head and Saviour of the Body Eph 5:23

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Now the word Head here has the same connotations of being its Prince as in Prince and Saviour Acts 5:31. The word head is kephalē and means:


I.the head, both of men and often of animals. Since the loss of the head destroys life, this word is used in the phrases relating to capital and extreme punishment.


II.metaph. anything supreme, chief, prominent

A.of persons, master lord: of a husband in relation to his wife


B.of Christ: the Lord of the husband and of the Church


C.of things: the corner stone

That word Chief means:



c.1300, "head, leader, captain; the principal or most important part of anything;"

And the word Prince as in Acts 5:31 is the greek word archēgos and means:


I.the chief leader, prince

A.of Christ



II.one that takes the lead in any thing and thus affords an example, a predecessor in a matter, pioneer


III.the author

So what we have in Eph 5:23 is just a restatement of Acts 5:31 ! Peter calls Him a Prince and a Saviour, Paul calls Him the Head and Saviour, so the Body is the same, Israel in Acts 5:31 and the Church in Eph 5:23 !

Now as the Head of the Body and looking back at Rom 5:18, through His One Righteous Act, it brought to the Body, the Church Justification of Life, or its Life out of Justification.

Those whom receive Justification by Christ's death, as an evidence and confirmation of the same, they must also receive Life, that is Spiritual Life, out of and away from spiritual death, because their wages of sin death has been totally satisfied in their behalf by their Head and Saviour, and so Life out of death is their just and appropriate due, because sin and its wages can no longer be charged against them.

Also this giving of them Spiritual Life is evidence of their Union with their Head when He also rose from the dead out of their condemnation and death; For it is written Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

And for this cause Life must follow Justification Rom 5:18, so Paul terms it Justification of Life, they're joined together by God Himself.

Now we know from the sacred scriptures all men without exception have or will have Life, Jesus said of some Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

They shall not see Life, thats a permanent indictment, so that eliminates them from being any Christ died for, and by that they received Justification of Life Rom 5:18 ! 14

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Romans 3:

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

This scripture reveals righteousness by the Faithfulness of Christ, and the evidence of having this righteousness is that one will be caused to believe, whether jew or gentile. . Also being the genitive, faith of Jesus Christ can denote that the faith to believe comes from Jesus Christ, He's the source of our faith Heb 12:2 and not ourselves. By Him being Abrahams seed Gal 3:16 He produces believers, since believers also are Abrahams seed spiritually Gal 3:29,7

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

 

[brightfame52]

God is Just in Justifying the Ungodly !

Rom 3:24-26

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

God is Just in Justifying the Ungodly [while actually being ungodly] because of the redemption provided for them in Christ Jesus their Surety Head.

Those Christ died for, His death alone for them put away sin and the consequences thereof, all of its penalties, death included, by making propitiation/satisfaction by His Blood, which is again the propitiation in Vs 25

By this [His Blood] God's Wrath has been appeased, not by their Faith in His Blood, but by His Blood alone God was appeased on their behalf ! And because of this, Christ's blood has so washed away the sins of theirs and its effects, its now so , as if they never sinned, and they are completely Righteous before Him, all of which is solely based on His Precious Blood, and So God Justifies them, even while and when they themselves are personally born into this world in a ungodly state, when they are children of wrath as others Eph 2:3, and while they are with enmity in their minds and heart against God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Now again, while those Christ died for are in this state of ungodliness, because of Christ's Blood, they are Justified, made Righteous before God, Hence, God Justifieth the Ungodly !

 

[brightfame52]

God is Just in Justifying the Ungodly !2

Now its only True that God is Justifying the Ungodly, only if indeed they have been Justified before Him while being Ungodly !

The Death/Blood of Christ is the basis of God Justifying them, not because of their believing, being obedient, but while being unbelieving and disobedient, and that's why it is also stated that they have been reconciled to God while being enemies Rom 5:10, which is just another way of stating that God Justified the Ungodly, while being ungodly, and until this is understood and embraced, we have no ideal what Justification by Grace is all about, nor do we properly understand Rom 4:5 and the blessed Truth that God justifies the Ungodly; And all who have been Justified by God while ungodly, based upon the redemption in Christ Jesus, all of them shall be given the Spirit of Faith to see it, realize it, and believe in Jesus for it, Hence Paul goes on to say that God is Just and the Justifier of them which are now believing in Jesus, that's because by new birth they have been given faith to believe the fact that they had been Justified, reconciled to God by Christ's blood while being enemies and ungodly !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

reneweddaybyday – Post 2331

You provide no post submitted by me which proves up your accusation and you will not find any post submitted by me which corroborates your claim.​

​

So again, those words came directly from your keyboard ... you are the only one who has made that blasphemous statement in this thread.​

brightfame52 – Post 2074

Christs death was worthless.​

I have provided proof that you are the only one on this thread who has made that claim.

I stand by that !

smh

 

[reneweddaybyday]

reneweddaybyday – Post 2256

When you combine your statement with my statement, it appears that I submitted both statements (which I didn't).​

​

I replied to your Post #2216 where you did the same thing.​

​

However, I am no longer going to respond to posts you submit like that. I will point out that you have botched your response, but I'm not going to take the time to figure out who said what.​

​

You need to take the time to learn how to submit posts so that it is clear as to who said what.​

brightfame52 – Post 2288

Hogwash​

reneweddaybyday – Post 2332

No, it is not "hogwash". It is rude on your part to combine your statements with my statements and submit a post where it appears I made both statements.​

​

When you submit posts in which you do that, you just reveal your pride and arrogance ... maybe because you consider yourself "elect" and I am merely a "whoseover".​

Yes it is hogwash

Intentionally obtuse.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Limited atonement is the "L" in TULIP aka the five-points of calvinism.

There are also calvinists who hold to four-point calvinism in which limited atonement (the "L") is not held to as adamantly as you hold to it. Four-point calvinists believe in unlimited atonement.

I know that, nevertheless limited atonement is a key truth in the Gospel of gods Grace, regardless what you or others call it. So when you reject Limited atonement, or unconditional election and the others, you are rejecting key truths of the Gospel and will be accountable to God for the same !

You claim "limited atonement" is a "key truth" on the one hand, yet on the other hand, you must manipulate Scripture in order to get Scripture to align with your dogma ... and that is something for which you "will be accountable to God for the same !"


Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
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[reneweddaybyday]

the verse does not state that faith "will be given".

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

The verse states that the promise ... will be given to those who believe.

Because to believe it must be given

Intentionally obtuse.

It is the promise that is given.

Just more of your manipulation of Scripture in order to align Scripture to your dogma ... and that is something for which you "will be accountable to God" !

You teach erronously that Faith is a condition men meet to get saved, thats works, thats law keeping.

Since Scripture is very clear in telling us that faith ≠ works, you are in error when you claim "thats works, thats law keeping".

I have the right perspective of Faith in salvation, its a fruit of the Spirit, given when one is born again

... just more of your "born again in order to believe that through which a person is born again" dogma ... under your erroneous dogma how many times must a person be born again before they are really, truly, really, really, really, scout's honor born again???


And it's really interesting that you continue to insist faith is fruit of the Spirit, yet will not answer the questions I have asked you several times now ...

love is the fruit of the Spirit as well. Are you saying that natural man cannot love because love is the fruit of the Spirit?

What about temperance (self control)? No natural men have self control?

How about patience? No natural men are patient?

Or is it only faith that you claim is withheld from mankind ... or given only to the "elect" so that the "elect" is born again and has fruit of the Spirit so he/she can believe the gospel by which he/she is born again ?

Why won't you answer the questions, brightfame52???
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[reneweddaybyday]

When the Lord Jesus Christ walked the face of the earth, He studied the Scriptures. He is our example ... we are to follow Him.

Studying Scripture was good enough for Him and I will follow Him.

Maybe if you studied the Scriptures a little more diligently, you'd be able to see the erroneousness of your dogma.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

scriptures dont save anyone from their sins, Christ does whom they reveal.

since it is clear the Lord Jesus Christ is revealed in Scripture, there is no need to argue that it is pointless to study God's Word.

The problem is not with Scripture. The problem is that folks don't open the Book and read it.

The problem is that the Bible, the Word of God, is "setting around collecting dust".

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee ...

What is "disrespectful to the Spirit of Truth" is to have the Bible, the Word of God, "setting around collecting dust".

you say any natural man can pick it up, knock dust off it, and read it and understand it with his spiritually darkened mind and heart.

Please provide the post where I said that, brightfame52.

Its implied

got it. I never said it, but you're gonna say I said it ... just more of your revisionist manipulation. I'm not surprised though, since you do the same with Scripture.

Psalm 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

That's just the entrance of thy words ... when a person first starts reading Scripture. Scripture tells us about itself ... Scripture gives light ... Scripture gives understanding. Again, this is just the beginning, when a person first starts to read Scripture.

Yes this is true of the regenerate

Intentionally obtuse ... again, why would you advocate that it is a good thing for folks to leave their Bibles "setting around collecting dust".

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick [Greek zaō = life], and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

so whats your point ?

Just trying to help you understand that Scripture is more than just "words written on paper".

Again, you have such a low opinion of Scripture.


Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Why do you waste time doing all that

Because you spewed your lie that the Word of God "takes no effect inwardly"

Studying the word hasn't helped you one bit

Yet another lie from the pit because you do not understand the power of the Scriptures.

I dont see where you understand the scriptures.

just because I do not agree with your erroneous dogma ... that does not mean I do not understand Scripture.

Im just being honest.

"code" for allowing yourself to behave in a rude and disrespectful manner. It makes you feel better when you're "just being honest" because it feeds your flesh.
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