Identifying the Spirit of Jezebel

[Abiding]

The weird thing is ....its the Jezebel spirit thats behind the Jezebel spirit witchhunt...to weed out the saints who would fight against her.
Its just a wind of doctrine to cause much more division and making those who follow it seem more holy and decerning.

I understand the meaning in Revelation 2 and it is the duty of all believers to take heed. But ive watched where this doctrine originated
recently, and all the books that have been written on this topic. And have seen the believers that have made this term now be in their vocabulary
and use it in their speech, And the fruit of it........Id not be surprised to see the next Jezebel Spirit best seller be signed by Jezebel herself.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

The weird thing is ....its the Jezebel spirit thats behind the Jezebel spirit witchhunt...to weed out the saints who would fight against her.
Its just a wind of doctrine to cause much more division and making those who follow it seem more holy and decerning.

I understand the meaning in Revelation 2 and it is the duty of all believers to take heed. But ive watched where this doctrine originated
recently, and all the books that have been written on this topic. And have seen the believers that have made this term now be in their vocabulary
and use it in their speech, And the fruit of it........Id not be surprised to see the next Jezebel Spirit best seller be signed by Jezebel herself.

Great post. Ironically the scenerio you just described is exactly what happened in Massachussetts when the Calvinistic Puritans attempted to purge the colony of Quakers. The Puritans accused them either of heresey, witchcraft or both then tortured and killed them. Now tell me, what right did the Puritans have to kill anyone when there own belief in the soverienty of God stated that mankind could do nothing to further help or hurt the cause of Christ?

Now let's take a look at the current witchhunt to rid these forums of the dreaded NAR. While I admit to being a Continuationist, I for one have been one of Rick Joyner staunchest critics and have always been the first to question if a certain behavior is authentic or mere hyperspiritualism. Yet I and many others on this board have been declared guilty of being a part of the NAR simply because we share a few core beliefs. Victoms of wild accusations, false assumptions, biting sarcasm and vicious name calling all of which definitely are not characteristics of one inhabited by the Holy Spirit yet all are associated with the Spirit of Jezebel.

How does it feel when the tables have been turned?

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

It's hypocritical to condemn the Jezebel witchhunt, which points the finger at a people's own behaviors to convict them, and not condemn the NAR witchhunt, which points the finger at a few beliefs but not a person own behavior.

For anyone to condemn me of being a part of the NAR simply because I am a Continuationist is no difference than condemning Zone for being a murderer because she is a Calvinist.

 

[Abiding]

Well i think i sorta got that. Heres my position. I rarely make assumptions. I usually try to use facts. And the facts are I really dont know anyone here
that much. So I really cant take sides, except point by point. And Im not an all or none person.

I believe the HolySpirit gives grace to the believer and that is just another name for gift or endowment, or power, how ever you want to put it into terms
doesnt matter to me. We need the Holyspirits guidence and empowerment. And without it we are just dead corpses. And the word to validate or invalidate
what is done in the name of the Holyspirit.

Having said that. Everything that glitters is not gold(sorry for the cliche) and there truly are counterfiets around. And just becuase they wear clothes
doesnt mean I want to throw my clothes away.

I didnt get anything out of your Massachussetts example at all. Alot of history there. Are you making it a parallel to the dangers of the NAR?
If you are fighting for the NAR becuase you believe in the Holyspirits endowments, then you might wonder if you might be a little extreme.

I kinda get your point, i think, maybe not. This I do know, when someone says to me they are a cessationist, or continuationist, or Calvinists, it just tells me
nothing till I have alot of dialogue with them, becuase they are seldom the same. And often the names are misleading from what a person really believes.
Not sure if you were calling me a hypocrite, if so explain.

 

[zone]

It's hypocritical to condemn the Jezebel witchhunt, which points the finger at a people's own behaviors to convict them, and not condemn the NAR witchhunt, which points the finger at a few beliefs but not a person own behavior.

For anyone to condemn me of being a part of the NAR simply because I am a Continuationist is no difference than condemning Zone for being a murderer because she is a Calvinist.

uh.....*cough*

according to you, the "Jezebel" thing is a demonic spirit (made into a funky religion by charismatics i might add).

the NAR is real and is an active and present danger. it's INSIDE THE CHURCH for REAL.
here you are casting out "spirits of Jezebel" and chasing devils around the room...and you are aware of Joyner and entire NAR system and say next to NOTHING (here at least). in fact you get all huffy and resistent when its brought up. you're either for it or against it.

no ground given to demons apparently, but certain men of old can get behind the pulpit? what exactly is your position on the whole thing Fire? and why is Rick Joyner dangerous? if he is, what about the rest of them?

expand on exactly what you mean by "continuationist"....speaking in tongues? or promoting new prophets and apostles?

i'm not a calvinist. condemn away.

 

[Abiding]

Here!..I brought you guys cookies and milk

 

[unclefester]

Here!..I brought you guys cookies and milk

Sucking up, huh ? (what flavor are they

)

 

[Abiding]

the ones on the left are chocolatechip the ones on the right are oatmeal and raison what else?
The milk came from a cow that was raised by a hippychick tho, buts its good

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

Well i think i sorta got that. Heres my position. I rarely make assumptions. I usually try to use facts. And the facts are I really dont know anyone here
that much. So I really cant take sides, except point by point. And Im not an all or none person.

I believe the HolySpirit gives grace to the believer and that is just another name for gift or endowment, or power, how ever you want to put it into terms
doesnt matter to me. We need the Holyspirits guidence and empowerment. And without it we are just dead corpses. And the word to validate or invalidate
what is done in the name of the Holyspirit.

Having said that. Everything that glitters is not gold(sorry for the cliche) and there truly are counterfiets around. And just becuase they wear clothes
doesnt mean I want to throw my clothes away.

I didnt get anything out of your Massachussetts example at all. Alot of history there. Are you making it a parallel to the dangers of the NAR?
If you are fighting for the NAR becuase you believe in the Holyspirits endowments, then you might wonder if you might be a little extreme.

I kinda get your point, i think, maybe not. This I do know, when someone says to me they are a cessationist, or continuationist, or Calvinists, it just tells me
nothing till I have alot of dialogue with them, becuase they are seldom the same. And often the names are misleading from what a person really believes.
Not sure if you were calling me a hypocrite, if so explain.

The principle is simple. Many here condemn others merely because of beliefs rather than personal actions. The NAR being a perfect exanple. I for one have never once claimed to be an apostle or prophet nor have I ever claimed to be perfect, for that matter. Yet I have been accused of being both a member of the NAR as well as a Perfectionist. Both assumptions are based on the wild accusations of one person who who just so happen has a severe disdain for anyone who might disagree with her rather than my own personal actions. Now while I will admit to disagree with their doctrines, not once have I doubted their salvation, called them heretics, accuse them of all kinds of nonsense, etc.

Now let's put the shoe on the other foot. I gave you two scenerios. One being how Calvinissts have a history of persecuting and killing those disagree with them in previous centuries. Now would it be right for me to accuse Zone of being a murderer because she shares the same core beliefs as her murderous Calvinist predecessors? No. it wouldn't.

I've also gave you scenerio of how a person acts who operates under the impression of the Spirit of Jezebel, much of that behaviour has been expressed right here on these boards lately by your buddy Zone who seems to be the #1 witch hunter around these parts. Now would it be right for me to accuse Zone of being a Jezebel? No it wouldn't because I don't her personally at all.

So tell me, what right do you guys have pointing the finger at anyone who's beliefs might differ from yours as a part of some worldwide conspiracy to deceive the church when you don't know them at all?

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

Another example. Red33 and I don't agree on much at all and while, I may consider his views to be Antinomian in nature, never once have I accused him to being an Antinomian, a heretic or even unsaved for that matter. That's for God to work out, not me. We are foolish to believe that we can change anyone but ourselves. It's the Holy Spirit's job to transform lives and the reason why we should keep those who might disagree with in prayer, not that they might conform to yours or my beliefs but that they might put their complete trust and life in the hands of Jesus regardless of what they believe.

The level of wickedness on these boards is incredible especiallky from those attempting to teach others.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

the ones on the left are chocolatechip the ones on the right are oatmeal and raison what else?
The milk came from a cow that was raised by a hippychick tho, buts its good

By the way, I did not call you a hypocrite. How could I? I don't know your lifestyle in comparison to your beliefs at all.

 

[Abiding]

I dont believe any of your examples pertain to me. Ive not been part of any of the things youve talked about. And i havnt seen any killing going
on in cc forums.

Now you are saying "you guys" to me while your saying that youve been falsly accused by assumptions and wild accusations. Bring to me anything I typed
to condemn you are anyone here. Or show me that post I wrote that wasnt a friendly dialogue.

As far as who is given the right to judge doctrine.....that would be everyone. This is also something youve done very much of, your finger is always pointing
so its weird you would ask. But then again, I dont have a problem with it.

And the thing about the Zezebel spirit, it is really a nutty thing to me. Zezebel was a certian kind of woman. Out for power, with a hatred for God, His ways,
And His people. If you wanted to say zone fits that description, then I guess youd have to make that call yourself. But remember there is a war against
the saints and against the unity of the body and the best way to win this is to use the saints themselves against each other, while throwing in damnable
heresy from mild to serious to fight over. Most of them are old favorites, some of them new, all attractive to the flesh. So stay allert brother.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

I dont believe any of your examples pertain to me. Ive not been part of any of the things youve talked about. And i havnt seen any killing going
on in cc forums.

Now you are saying "you guys" to me while your saying that youve been falsly accused by assumptions and wild accusations. Bring to me anything I typed
to condemn you are anyone here. Or show me that post I wrote that wasnt a friendly dialogue.

As far as who is given the right to judge doctrine.....that would be everyone. This is also something youve done very much of, your finger is always pointing
so its weird you would ask. But then again, I dont have a problem with it.

And the thing about the Zezebel spirit, it is really a nutty thing to me. Zezebel was a certian kind of woman. Out for power, with a hatred for God, His ways,
And His people. If you wanted to say zone fits that description, then I guess youd have to make that call yourself. But remember there is a war against
the saints and against the unity of the body and the best way to win this is to use the saints themselves against each other, while throwing in damnable
heresy from mild to serious to fight over. Most of them are old favorites, some of them new, all attractive to the flesh. So stay allert brother.

#1. No one said you couldn't judge one doctrines. Motives however are a different matter altogether seeing as you don't know them.

#2. By agreeing with the people who have made the assumptions and accusations you are basically endorsing their actions.

 

[Abiding]

Hardly, by agreeing with you on a point you make simply does not mean i will agree with you on another point you make...I already said
Im not an all or nothing person. I will do as the Word tell me in one of the very few places we are told to strive, and that is in the unity
of the faith.

If you hold to a strick view of guilt by association then its yours to do and you will get what that gets you. And if being friends with certian
people excludes me from a certain club...well ill try to get by with His grace. I just wont myself allow a division to come by my hands unless
the bible commands.

 

[Abiding]

Ever heard about collateral damage? It happens all the time!

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

Hardly, by agreeing with you on a point you make simply does not mean i will agree with you on another point you make...I already said
Im not an all or nothing person. I will do as the Word tell me in one of the very few places we are told to strive, and that is in the unity
of the faith.

If you hold to a strick view of guilt by association then its yours to do and you will get what that gets you. And if being friends with certian
people excludes me from a certain club...well ill try to get by with His grace. I just wont myself allow a division to come by my hands unless
the bible commands.

All I'm saying is that by agreeing with them you are encourage them to push the envelop even farther.

I for one believe that their are saved and unsaved (wheat and chaff) in every church and denomination. And what separates the wheat from the chaff is not so much doctrine but rather what dwells inside their hearts. Is it Jesus or is it the Flesh? Is light of God or the darkness of the world? Keep in mind that the world exalts knowledge but God exalts the heart.

 

[Abiding]

well isnt that how it works with you? we do our best to take a stand, on what we think is right ....than that throws you into a class of people?
If that happens to me then I guess thats how the cookie crumbles. But not to me. I have close Christian friends who have alot of different views
on things, and also am old enough to see views change and progress. If i only hang around those I am in complete agreement with, it tends to give me
an Im right complex, and limits my chances of learning to a great degree. Also some of the views I have now 10 years ago I scoffed at and was sure
was wrong. Either way im slow to judge, even tho I do. And even then, Im not walking off on anyone over it.

 

[Nalu]

cool.
could we get chapter & verse on all that?

or should we just consult the DSM?

if you can't back all that up in the scriptures, you're adding to the word of God, and in typical hyper-charismatic fashion are involved in demonology.

you realize that whole concept exists only in your charismatic sandbox, right? you're describing sinful women (and your pentecostal group applies this "spirit" to men as well....)
of course you do...nothing escapes you since you are perfect.

That's correct, without Biblical validation, its simply rumors, hearsay, speculation or denominational propaganda.

Zone I don't believe we have met but I do enjoy reading your'e posts. Nice post as usual.

 

[zone]

Love Tobby

hi Tobby.
i know you like short posts, so here's this thing we talked about.

the writer of the article, Bob DeWaay is concerned about certain teachings that focus on demons and stuff. you're prolly familiar with what he calls "Popular Spiritual Warfare Teaching"

Pastor DeWaay is warning us about a popular book by Francis Frangipane that tells christians they're supposed to search for and identify what is supposedly a known and specific demon called Jezebel, who is supposedly playing games in churches.

this sect has developed elaborate lists of demon's names, what they do, what their "strategies" are for taking over churches and so on. there's no basis for any of this in the Bible.

Bob DeWaay is quoting the book by the spiritual warfare guy Frangipane who says what this demon spirit's goal supposedly is (the part in red). Bob summarizes after that:

The Dishonoring of God in Popular Spiritual Warfare Teaching,

by Bob DeWaay

The following is an excerpt from Pastor DeWaay’s article, The Dishonoring of God in Popular Spiritual Warfare Teaching. From the chapter is titled: So Why are There Still Problems?

....To show that I am not over-stating their claims, consider this statement by Francis Frangipane who claims to have sold hundreds of thousands of spiritual warfare books:

"The church that successfully wars against Jezebel will be a church that inherits the glorious "morning star," which will be visible outward glory, a symbol of hidden, inward purity. It will be a church that exercises "authority over the nations," uniquely because it has conquered the Jezebel spirit which sought to strip God's servants of authority.14"

He supposes that the Jezebel in Revelation 2:20 is a spirit being that is currently controlling much of society and the church. Jezebel's principle enemies are modern prophets who are "Elijah" coming in spirit before the coming of the Lord. He states, "Seeing Jezebel so blatantly manifest herself only confirms that the spirit of Elijah is also here bringing repentance and raising up warring prophets throughout our land!"15 In keeping with common dominionist spiritual warfare claims, this assumes that the church throughout history allowed itself and the rest of society to be ruled by Satan's agents, but that now new prophets with new revelations are going to bring us into world dominion.

http://www.spiritualwarfaredeliverance.com/articles-spiritual-warfare-deliverance-healing/html/dishonoring-of-god.html

so, the point is, the spiritual warfare people are saying that this "demon Jezebel's goal is to stop the "bringing [of] repentance and raising up [of] warring prophets throughout our land"

they are saying that there is a whole company of new prophets who are "Elijah" in the spirit on the way, and here now (remember Jesus said that was John the baptist already?).

Pastor DeWaay says "In keeping with common dominionist spiritual warfare claims, this assumes that the church throughout history allowed itself and the rest of society to be ruled by Satan's agents, but that now new prophets with new revelations are going to bring us into world dominion."

~

so, we will have to make a decision about whether The Lord is actually sending new apostles and prophets to take control of the church, as these groups claim, or if the prophets and apostles in the Holy Scriptures are the ones we listen to.

that's as short as i could make it Tobby.
love zone.

 

[zone]

That's correct, without Biblical validation, its simply rumors, hearsay, speculation or denominational propaganda.

Zone I don't believe we have met but I do enjoy reading your'e posts. Nice post as usual.

thank you Nalu.
it is nice to meet you.
i've seen your coffee cup around and i confess i have coveted it. oops.
zone