What is the Difference Between Determination and Desperation?

seoulsearch · May 2, 2018

Hey Everyone,

In another thread, we were talking about a scenario in which a good Christian guy was looking for a good Christian wife... And so, he proceeds to start asking girls out.

First, he asks 3 girls out at his church, one after the other, but they all say no.

Then, he sets his sights on his workplace. He asks 2 girls out at his place of employment, about 4 months apart, but these girls also turn him down.

Because the people at his church tell him to "keep trying" and "never give up", he decides to keep going and has now joined 3 dating sites in the hopes of finding his "true love". He always prays over every situation (asking someone out, joining a dating site, etc.) and he believes every decision he has made in all of this has been "led by God."

Some would call this determination.

Others would call it desperation.

* What would YOU call it, and what do you think is the difference?

* Have you experienced both determination AND desperation yourself? Not just with dating, but maybe with a job, trip you wanted to take, etc.? How is it different when you are determined to go after something, rather than desperate to get something?

* When it comes to other people, what makes a person sound determined to you, and what makes them sound desperate? Is desperation a turn-off?

I'm looking forward to reading other people's thoughts and experiences.

NoNameMcgee · May 2, 2018

desperation kind of points to distress....

there is this negative connotation about it

to be determined just means resolved

i guess you cross the line between the two when you go outside of your own morals or what is truely right in order to achieve what you want

(like lying or stealing or harming someone)

:EDIT: desperate also includes wanting or needing something so bad your standards change in order to get it....

like someone stranded on an island and eating leaves or bark to live

Lynx · May 2, 2018

Determination: "I want this, and I am going to take these measures to get it."

Desperation: "I must have this, and I have to take these measures to get it."

The difference is in how important the objective is to the person in question. As such, one can seem like the other to an outside observer. This is one of those things that can only be determined by the person who is either determined, desperate or both. This is also one of those things that people make the wrong call on, and then gossip a lot about. >.>

toinena · May 2, 2018

Determination: Set a goal, work systematically towards it, measure the progress, take action to adjust the course, get the result you aimed for, or an adjusted version of it.
Desperation: Have a vague idea of wanting something, no methode or systematic thinking on how to gain it, jumping at possibilities without a clear goal, messing up and never stepping back to view where you go wrong. (I was there without knowing it.... )

zeroturbulence · May 2, 2018

seoulsearch said:

Hey Everyone,

In another thread, we were talking about a scenario in which a good Christian guy was looking for a good Christian wife... And so, he proceeds to start asking girls out.

First, he asks 3 girls out at his church, one after the other, but they all say no.

Then, he sets his sights on his workplace. He asks 2 girls out at his place of employment, about 4 months apart, but these girls also turn him down.

Because the people at his church tell him to "keep trying" and "never give up", he decides to keep going and has now joined 3 dating sites in the hopes of finding his "true love". He always prays over every situation (asking someone out, joining a dating site, etc.) and he believes every decision he has made in all of this has been "led by God."

Some would call this determination.

Others would call it desperation.

* What would YOU call it, and what do you think is the difference?

* Have you experienced both determination AND desperation yourself? Not just with dating, but maybe with a job, trip you wanted to take, etc.? How is it different when you are determined to go after something, rather than desperate to get something?

* When it comes to other people, what makes a person sound determined to you, and what makes them sound desperate? Is desperation a turn-off?

I'm looking forward to reading other people's thoughts and experiences.

On the surface, I would call that determination because he is not giving up even though he keeps getting rejected...

But IF he is doing all this because he feels like he can't go on living unless he finds a girlfriend, then that's desperation..

(and not amore')

Depleted · May 2, 2018

seoulsearch said:

Gen. 1:[FONT=&quot]20 And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.”[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]21 So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.”[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]23 And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.[/FONT]

And fish were created. And those fish begat more fish and more fish and more fish, until the waters were teaming with fish.

And then there was a flood over the whole earth bringing freshwater and saltwater fish into one body of water. I'm assuming many died, because saltwater fish need salt water, while freshwater need fresh water. But enough survived that we still have plenty of fish even today.

There was this one particular species of fish. I don't know what kind, other than it was found in the waters around Iraq and grew big enough to swallow 200 pounds of food in one gulp. But from Day Five in creation, the Lord predestined that one species of fish to survive all the way until the time of Jonah. And, he predestined one particular fish from that family to be under that ship that day of the storm to swallow Jonah. AND, he predestined that particular fish to just happen to vomit out Jonah right outside Nineveh three days later. Exactly when Jonah decided to follow God's will.

I think about that fish a lot. My parents were like that. Mom was born in Falls River, MA. Dad was born in Syracuse, NY. Mom moved 23 times by the time she was 18. And then she moved more often afterward. Dad never moved, even once, until after college. And then he moved just once -- to South Jersey -- before he met Mom. They met in Wilmington, Delaware of all places, at a party.

How much was God involved in setting those two strangers up? Like that fish for Jonah.

And then there was me and hubby. He grew up in Philadelphia. I grew up in South Jersey. Seems likely we would meet, right? Not really. My seventh grade science teacher was his BIL that same year. (Just got a little ew-ew, didn't it? lol) A year later, I moved to Illinois. Then to Virginia, back to Illinois, over to North Jersey, and ended up going to college a few towns from where I grew up. Between my sophomore year and junior year, I tried getting accepted into Penn State. I was accepted to Penn State, but turned down the offer for one silly reason. Transferring would mean, I'd have to live with Dad for at least one semester. (I had tasted the freedom of living on my own, and wasn't going back. lol) Meanwhile, he moved out of the city, his marriage ended, and he moved over to South Jersey.

A friend had been telling me about his goofy church. Something about God telling him he shouldn't follow the pastor to South Florida. (Personally, trying to figure out why a whole church would move 1500 miles away, simply because some pastor asked, but later on found out not-a-pastor, a charlatan.) When the "pastor" was taking a third of the church with him, something prompted me to go visit this friend's church. Really nice people, but in the midst of great uphevel. My first invite in that church was for a farewell party for that charlatan. (Didn't know he was a charlatan at the time, but over all didn't much like him either. Kind of thinking he was all-that-and-a-bag-of-chips with a audience of people around him who seemed to agree with his self-opinion of himself.) If he wasn't leaving, I wouldn't have stayed.

But he left, and one of the broken people he left behind ended up being my husband.

All that, (and agreed that was a lot), to say God orchestrates everything. The fish was at the right place at the right time. My parents were at the right place at the right time. Hubby and I were at the right place at the right time. I tend to trust God will land us where he wants us for whatever purpose he wants us to be there, including to find The One. Not determination nor desperation. Predestined by the Lord.

As for determination? That was hubby on our first date. He told me flat out, "I am the type of guy who needs a wife, so I'm looking for the wife." Hour #4 in a five hour date, mind you, but that was the first date.

And he was telling that to someone who five hours before that usually would have been the one saying, "Yeah, but I'm not looking for a husband." Not quite sure when God changed my mind on that one, but I do know this. An hour later, when the date was over, I called Dad to tell him I had just found The One. (And, yes. Dad took that like you would expect him to. lol)

I think it's best to go through life assuming if God wants you married, he'll set you up, even in ways you'd never expect. He's good at predestining. My parents' marriage wasn't a happy one, but if they never married, there would be eleven less people in the world. (Counting my brothers, their children, and two grandchildren in that number.) My husband's last marriage wasn't a happy one, but if he didn't get married, there would be one less person in the world, and had we met back then, he would have been my babysitter, not my husband. lol So, even if it doesn't seem to work out, it still works out perfectly. God is THAT good at that predestining stuff.

Lots of fish in the sea, but only one will be at the right place and time.

seoulsearch · May 2, 2018

Hi Lynn,

Thank you for sharing your story. I've heard lots of stories such as this... about the most unlikely people meeting.

Now days I guess it's a lot more common though with the help of the internet.

My former father-in-law marveled once (regarding my ex-husband and myself) that "two Asian-born kids raised on opposite ends of the world could meet in the middle of Nowheresville, Midwestern USA."

I wish so much that my husband would have chosen to stay with me.

I must admit, that when I read stories like yours, I always have a strong feeling of, "If God could do that for (Depleted), I wonder why He doesn't decide to do that for me (and so many others here.)" Maybe He thinks I'm not ready, maybe it's not my calling, maybe He has reasons I wouldn't understand even if He told me.

For whatever reason, God has different stories for some of us, and there may not ever be a right person at the right time.

I met a truly noble Christian man many years ago who was around 60 years of age and had lost his wife tragically when they were in their 20's. He held out hope all those years that he would marry again, but for whatever reason, it didn't happen, and it wasn't looking like it would (though of course, anything is possible and he was still hopeful.)

I'll be honest. If anyone would have told me when I was 25 that I would still be single at age 44, I would have hung myself on the spot. I wouldn't have been able to bear the thought.

I remember the day a 'friend" told me, "You are just going to have to accept that (your husband) is NEVER coming back", and it felt like she was throwing shards of glass through my soul and crushing them at the same time.

Is there still a right someone in the right place at the right time? I don't know.

But I, like many singles here, are trying to make the best of the lives we were given... alone.

tourist · May 2, 2018

I believe a desperate person would tend to lower his or her expectations and overlook serious negative attributes in an attempt to find someone that believe in him or her. The thing is, such a person probably wouldn't even believe in themselves let alone the other person.

Thin line between determination and desperation.

While determination may be admirable it would be best to allow God to search and find the one of your heart's desire. Thinking back to my youth I may have been a little desperate or perhaps thrilled that someone seemed to show a genuine interest in me and married me (23 years old). The sad thing is that's all it was, it was just for show.

Took me 18 years to recover and finally trust God to find someone that would accept and love me for who I am. The same thing is true for my current (and last) spouse.

My determination to find a wife turned into desperation. I had crossed the line and paid dearly for it. Funny thing is I don't even remember why it was so important in the first place. Perhaps it had to do with sex as I knew it was wrong to have sex outside of marriage. I was a virgin when I met my first wife. She was too, but that turned out to be a lie. Unfortunately, I allowed temptation to overcome me and we had premarital sex. You know, that was probably the beginning of the end of that relationship.

This marriage was not blessed by God as I don't believe that He joined us together. I was young and hormones were raging. I screwed it up big time.

The only good thing to come out of that horrific marriage was my daughter. Truthfully, there is only one day that I do regret about that marriage and that was my wedding day.

Lesson #1 - Marry for love and not for sex.

I have learned other lessons as well throughout the years.

Tommy379 · May 2, 2018

Desperation can breed determination.

When your back is against the wall, no choice but to move forward.

When you can't escape the fight, might as well win.

Desperate battles are made for victory.

toinena · May 3, 2018

Tommy379 said:

Or defeat...

kaijo · May 3, 2018

I think that Desperation might be driven by "self".
e.g , "I want a partner because i don't want to be alone."

And perhaps Determination is driven by things other than just "self".
e.g, "I want a partner to start my own family with and experience what it feels like to truly care for others instead of just caring for myself".

Just a guess ^^

Tommy379 · May 3, 2018

toinena said:

Defeat is intolerable.

Lynx · May 3, 2018

But sometimes inevitable.

Depleted · May 3, 2018

seoulsearch said:

You're not alone. Alone is sitting at home forever all by yourself. You're just not married. No curse or shame in that. But, God has given you the right people at the right time always. People don't have to be spouses to be people. You've got people!

You've got people on here. I bet you have people off here too. God is always sending the right people at the right time. I remember so many of those people in my life. One was the friend I had who told me about a Bible study before school the first morning I was saved. Her name was Patti. She was the right people at the right time. And, when I moved, we lost touch, so she is no longer the right people at this time.

I remember Mark. Mark was the right people at the right time in college, when I was backslidden, but he became a new believer. He was the same guy who told me about that weird church with that weird pastor who wanted his church to move with him, so he was the right people at the right time twice. Mark was at my wedding, but he wasn't quite up to being married himself yet. That's about when hubby and I moved, and now the only time I "see" Mark is on FB.

Wendy was the right people at the right time too, in a different way. Wendy was the woman who told us she was offended because we were walking out of church before the sermon. We realized that that church still had people we loved, but it wasn't teaching us what we needed, so Wendy was the right people at the right time to tell us to leave. (Not what she meant when she talked to us. lol But, hey, that was the shove we needed.)

You're ex- was a right people too. He served some purpose in the Lord for you, and probably for himself too. Right people aren't always forever. God gives us for now.

PennEd is right people. Here I am married, and PennEd is married, yet the Lord brought us together at the right time, so the Lord can do something wonderful for both of us. PennEd orchestrated a cleaning/fixing project for John and my house. Obvious how it benefited John and me. BUT it also benefited Ed and friends too in just as many ways.

Never thing right people at right time means spouse. It can mean spouse. More often than not, it doesn't. The Lord always sends the right people at the right time, and it doesn't mean marriage-material.

Depleted · May 3, 2018

Tommy379 said:

It's a lot more tolerable than you can imagine. (Ends up? The Lord is sovereign even in our defeats.)

seoulsearch · May 3, 2018

Depleted said:

You're not alone. Alone is sitting at home forever all by yourself. You're just not married. No curse or shame in that. But, God has given you the right people at the right time always. People don't have to be spouses to be people. You've got people!

You've got people on here. I bet you have people off here too. God is always sending the right people at the right time. I remember so many of those people in my life. One was the friend I had who told me about a Bible study before school the first morning I was saved. Her name was Patti. She was the right people at the right time. And, when I moved, we lost touch, so she is no longer the right people at this time.

I remember Mark. Mark was the right people at the right time in college, when I was backslidden, but he became a new believer. He was the same guy who told me about that weird church with that weird pastor who wanted his church to move with him, so he was the right people at the right time twice. Mark was at my wedding, but he wasn't quite up to being married himself yet. That's about when hubby and I moved, and now the only time I "see" Mark is on FB.

Wendy was the right people at the right time too, in a different way. Wendy was the woman who told us she was offended because we were walking out of church before the sermon. We realized that that church still had people we loved, but it wasn't teaching us what we needed, so Wendy was the right people at the right time to tell us to leave. (Not what she meant when she talked to us. lol But, hey, that was the shove we needed.)

You're ex- was a right people too. He served some purpose in the Lord for you, and probably for himself too. Right people aren't always forever. God gives us for now.

PennEd is right people. Here I am married, and PennEd is married, yet the Lord brought us together at the right time, so the Lord can do something wonderful for both of us. PennEd orchestrated a cleaning/fixing project for John and my house. Obvious how it benefited John and me. BUT it also benefited Ed and friends too in just as many ways.

Never thing right people at right time means spouse. It can mean spouse. More often than not, it doesn't. The Lord always sends the right people at the right time, and it doesn't mean marriage-material.

Right now I am wishing He would send me someone to make me a sammich. Maybe two.

(Thank you for your thoughts, Lynn, and for sharing. I want to read them again after I've had some sleep.)

And, single or not, the avatars of your little friends always make me smile... They always seem to appear in the right place, and at the right time.

Susanna · May 3, 2018

Lynx said:

My drill instructor told me defeat was not an option. Haha, I guess he had no knowledge to CC threads.

Lynx · May 3, 2018

Susanna said:

Of course he said that. What kind of drill instructor would he be if he did not say that? It wouldn't be right for him to tell his students, "now remember, only one person can win and the law of averages says it will not always be you, so always be ready to be defeated."

Of course the statement is perfectly logical. But he would also be perfectly fired on the spot.

G00WZ · Dec 28, 2022

Determination proves itself, it's self affirming, desperation is self lacking and tries hard to be proven and validated. They both are self affirming but desperation is negative and designed to torment you.

Determination is like "im the man i get all the girls" and so he goes out and proves himself right and he gets the girl. Desperation is like "im lonely and i need a girl friend" so he goes out and proves himself right as he continues to chase and fail to get one to cure his lonelieness. That's why once a man might start hitting the gym or doing things to improve and boost his self image/value things just magically start appearing in his life. Once that self opinion changes things just come right after to affirm and support how you imagine yourself.

People with a strong sense of self often times get what they want while the people who are passive sortof just get tossed around by the wind. That's why i always say that the ego can be a powerful too if a person learns how to use it.

Lynx · Dec 29, 2022

G00WZ said:

Determination proves itself, it's self affirming, desperation is self lacking and tries hard to be proven and validated. They both are self affirming but desperation is negative and designed to torment you.

Determination is like "im the man i get all the girls" and so he goes out and proves himself right and he gets the girl. Desperation is like "im lonely and i need a girl friend" so he goes out and proves himself right as he continues to chase and fail to get one to cure his lonelieness. That's why once a man might start hitting the gym or doing things to improve and boost his self image/value things just magically start appearing in his life. Once that self opinion changes things just come right after to affirm and support how you imagine yourself.

People with a strong sense of self often times get what they want while the people who are passive sortof just get tossed around by the wind. That's why i always say that the ego can be a powerful too if a person learns how to use it.

Maybe... But the passive person can feel free to enjoy a nap while the more driven people feel compelled to keep striving.

*Lynx goes off to take a nap on a tree limb.

What is the Difference Between Determination and Desperation?

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