Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[reneweddaybyday]

1 Cor 2:14 shows us that the natural man has no spiritual capacity to receive and understand the Gospel.

wrong ... 1 Cor 2:14 tells us the natural man receiveth not the hidden wisdom spoken of in 1 Cor 2:7. Quit conflating the gospel with the hidden wisdom about which, apparently, you know nothing.

God never hid the gospel. The gospel is revealed in Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.

The hidden wisdom was hid from ages and from generations (Col 1:26).


Getting back to what is written in John 3, the Lord Jesus Christ makes clear that the reason Nicodemus did not know these things (vs 10) was because he did not receive [lambanō] the witness:

John 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

Jesus makes clear that it was not because Nicodemus could not hear or that Nicodemus could not understand ... but because Nicodemus did not receive our witness.

The word "receive" is translated from the Greek word lambanō which means:

"actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively)accepting what is available (offered). 2983/lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.​

HELPS Word-studies​

... and I know you will not receive the witness because your erroneous dogma requires that one must be regenerated (born again) before he/she can hear. Well that information is not included in the record in John 3 so you're going to have to find another record in Scripture to support your claim.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Now it has been established by me in my previous posts , that Justification before God is prior to ones believing

no ... you have not "established" your claim.

Rebuttals to your claims have been submitted and you outright ignore the point, or you have responded by submitting posts in which words/concepts are added to Scripture which the Author of Scripture did not include.

You claiming to have "established" your claim is not the same as you having "established" your claim.

Living by Faith begins, when God through the Preaching of the Gospel, and the persuasive Power of the Holy Spirit, affirms in the Justified ones soul, that they are Just/Justified and forgiven of all their sins

living by faith begins when a person does not suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18) when God's Word is spoken to him/her or when he/she reads God's Word.

Living by faith begins when we believe God's Word.

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

From faith to faith – the verse reveals that the born again one is made righteous through faith alone ... not from works to faith or from faith to works ... from faith to faith. The life of the born again one is to be lived by faith alone.

Matthew Henry Commentary ... "It is not from faith to works, as if faith put us into a justified state, and then works preserved and maintained us in it, but it is all along from faith to faith."

Their forgiveness Preached unto them Acts 13:38 means their Justification from all sin is announced to them, convincing, persuading them of the same, that's the Spirits Work

While it is true that the Holy Spirit will reprove [convict] the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment (John 16:8), when we continue reading in Acts 13, we read in vs 39:

Acts 13:

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man [the Lord Jesus Christ] is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.


A person coming to understand their sins are forgiven does not justify them.

When a person believes God's Word concerning the Lord Jesus Christ ... Messiah ... then they are justified.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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[reneweddaybyday]

Their forgiveness Preached unto them Acts 13:38 means their Justification from all sin is announced to them, convincing, persuading them of the same, that's the Spirits Work upon the Justified, He convinces them of their discharge from the penalty of their sins and the condemnation sin brings because of the violated, transgressed law !

Quit ripping verses from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed them in order to prop up your erroneous dogma.

Acts 13:39 makes clear that all that believe are justified.

And a person is not justified because he/she is convinced "of their discharge from the penalty of their sins and the condemnation sin brings because of the violated, transgressed law !"

A person is justified when he/she believes in the Lord Jesus Christ for it is only in the Lord Jesus Christ that a person is saved and justified. Period.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

The Salvation here is the Belief of the Truth opposed to believing that which is a lie or not true !

I do not believe the lie which you have declared and to this day you have not repented:

those He died for do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners

I have given you many opportunities to repent and state that you no longer hold to that erroneous dogma, but you remain adamantly rebellious in refusing to repent.


1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry ...

When we are Justified by Faith, it means that it has been given to be Justified within ourselves [with the knowledge of it]

...

That results in Justification by Faith, to receive by God giving them a Knowledge of their Salvation in the remission of their sins !

"When we are Justified by Faith, it means that" ... we believe what God tells us in His Word. Period.

We do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18) ... we simply believe what is written. Period.

fyi, brightfame52, we are not "Justified within ourselves". We are justified in the Lord Jesus Christ. Period.

Nor are we justified by "God giving them a Knowledge of their Salvation in the remission of their sins !" We are justified in the Lord Jesus Christ. Period.

Quit spouting your erroneous dogma ... read Scripture just as it is written ... trust God and believe what He says.


Romans 10:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
.

 

[brightfame52]

Justifying the Ungodly and how !

That God Justifying the Ungodly is an accomplishment of Christ's death, its seen in Paul's Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Now notice as highlighted Vs 33b " It is God that Justifieth" and heres how highlighted in Vs 34b "It is Christ that died", and 34c goes on to say" yea rather, that is risen again"

After dying and Justifying, His being risen validates they are Justified as pointed out in Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification

In other words, if being delivered for our offences did not satisfy completely Gods Law and Justice for our sins, did not fully wipe our record clean before Him, then Christ would not have risen from the dead, since Justice would not have been completely satisfied !

Justice was fully satisfied because He died, and the Resurrection proved it !

Now to say one must become a believer or exercise faith in Christ, in order to be made Just/Righteous before God, after Christ has died for them, and rose again from the dead as a testimony to His Justifying death before Gods law and Justice, its to tell a lie, such a lie is against the very testimony of Christ's Resurrection, its against the merits of Christ's blood, that the blood is not the sole reason why God Justifieth the Ungodly, which is contempt for the Blood of Christ ! It tends to elevate the merit of what the sinner does to be justified before God, rather than what the death of Christ did to cause us to be Justified before God ! 15

 

[brightfame52]

wrong, brightfame52. God does need to state "elect" in the verses ... otherwise "world" and "the whole world" and "whosoever" come to mean whatever the reader determines. And that is not proper interpretation of Scripture ... that is eisegesis.

Exegesis and eisegesis are two conflicting approaches in Bible study. Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.​

​

The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.​

​

Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.​

https://www.gotquestions.org/exegesis-eisegesis.html​

​

what is "a given fact" is what God states in His Word. And God tells us for whom the Lord Jesus Christ died:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Just read what is written ... no insertion of words which do not appear in the text in your feeble attempt to promulgate your erroneous dogma.





sigh … more of your eisegesis. Ripping a verse out of the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed it does not change the meaning of the verse to your stated dogma.

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ





"Jn 3:16-17; 1Jn 2:2 and the likes Jn 1:29" denote what God, the Author of Scripture, tells us.

And that would be the world, the whole world ... that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life (John 3:16).
.

Its already a given known fact that Christ exclusively died for His Elect, or His Sheep, or Church. So thats the worlds He Loved and died for.

 

[brightfame52]

wrong ... 1 Cor 2:14 tells us the natural man receiveth not the hidden wisdom spoken of in 1 Cor 2:7. Quit conflating the gospel with the hidden wisdom about which, apparently, you know nothing.

God never hid the gospel. The gospel is revealed in Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.

The hidden wisdom was hid from ages and from generations (Col 1:26).


Getting back to what is written in John 3, the Lord Jesus Christ makes clear that the reason Nicodemus did not know these things (vs 10) was because he did not receive [lambanō] the witness:

John 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

Jesus makes clear that it was not because Nicodemus could not hear or that Nicodemus could not understand ... but because Nicodemus did not receive our witness.

The word "receive" is translated from the Greek word lambanō which means:

"actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively)accepting what is available (offered). 2983/lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.​

HELPS Word-studies​

... and I know you will not receive the witness because your erroneous dogma requires that one must be regenerated (born again) before he/she can hear. Well that information is not included in the record in John 3 so you're going to have to find another record in Scripture to support your claim.
.

Once again, 1 Cor 2:14 says it plainly that the natural cannot spiritually understand the Gospel because its Truths must be spiritually discerned, which a natural person is without the Spirit .

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The word natural is used in Jude 1:19

These be they who separate themselves, sensual ,having not the Spirit.

So the natural man is anyone who doesnt have the Spirit, which is all of us by nature prior to regeneration. So prior to regeneration we lack the Spiritual capacity to receive, understand spiritually the Gospel, for we are remaining sensual, natural.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

brightfame52 said:
Now it has been established by me in my previous posts , that Justification before God is prior to ones believing
no ... you have not "established" your claim.

Rebuttals to your claims have been submitted and you outright ignore the point, or you have responded by submitting posts in which words/concepts are added to Scripture which the Author of Scripture did not include.

You claiming to have "established" your claim is not the same as you having "established" your claim.




brightfame52 said:
Living by Faith begins, when God through the Preaching of the Gospel, and the persuasive Power of the Holy Spirit, affirms in the Justified ones soul, that they are Just/Justified and forgiven of all their sins
living by faith begins when a person does not suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18) when God's Word is spoken to him/her or when he/she reads God's Word.

Living by faith begins when we believe God's Word.

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

From faith to faith – the verse reveals that the born again one is made righteous through faith alone ... not from works to faith or from faith to works ... from faith to faith. The life of the born again one is to be lived by faith alone.

Matthew Henry Commentary ... "It is not from faith to works, as if faith put us into a justified state, and then works preserved and maintained us in it, but it is all along from faith to faith."

Justification of the elect occurred before they believe, just like the non imputation of their sins occurred before they believed, which so says the Gospel 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation

That's a Gospel fact alone proves that the elect world is Justified before God prior to any of them believing. If God doesn't impute sin to that world, its Justified from all sin.

brightfame52 said:
Their forgiveness Preached unto them Acts 13:38 means their Justification from all sin is announced to them, convincing, persuading them of the same, that's the Spirits Work
While it is true that the Holy Spirit will reprove [convict] the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment (John 16:8), when we continue reading in Acts 13, we read in vs 39:

Acts 13:

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man [the Lord Jesus Christ] is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.


A person coming to understand their sins are forgiven does not justify them.

When a person believes God's Word concerning the Lord Jesus Christ ... Messiah ... then they are justified.

A Person is Justified before God on the basis of non imputation of sin #12 Cor 5:19 and #2 Christs blood shed Rom 5:9 and both happened before they believed.

Then sometime in their life, they will be regenerated and brought into contact with the Gospel, which Gospel the forgiveness of their sins is preached to them, or their Justification from sin is announced, or declared to them.

 

[brightfame52]

Quit ripping verses from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed them in order to prop up your erroneous dogma.

Acts 13:39 makes clear that all that believe are justified.

And a person is not justified because he/she is convinced "of their discharge from the penalty of their sins and the condemnation sin brings because of the violated, transgressed law !"

A person is justified when he/she believes in the Lord Jesus Christ for it is only in the Lord Jesus Christ that a person is saved and justified. Period.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.





I do not believe the lie which you have declared and to this day you have not repented:




I have given you many opportunities to repent and state that you no longer hold to that erroneous dogma, but you remain adamantly rebellious in refusing to repent.


1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry ...





"When we are Justified by Faith, it means that" ... we believe what God tells us in His Word. Period.

We do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18) ... we simply believe what is written. Period.

fyi, brightfame52, we are not "Justified within ourselves". We are justified in the Lord Jesus Christ. Period.

Nor are we justified by "God giving them a Knowledge of their Salvation in the remission of their sins !" We are justified in the Lord Jesus Christ. Period.

Quit spouting your erroneous dogma ... read Scripture just as it is written ... trust God and believe what He says.


Romans 10:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
.

Already been through this with you.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

...

His being risen validates they are Justified as pointed out in Rom 4:25

Why do you feel the need to conflate what is written in Romans 8:33-34 with what is written in Romans 4:25?

If God had wanted Romans 8:33-34 to be part of the context of Romans 4:25, He would have included the verses within the context of Romans 4:25.

The fact that God did not include Romans 8:33-34 in Romans 4:25 is indicative that He wanted to include in the context of Romans 4:25 the verses with which He surrounded 4:25 ... and it just so happens that Romans 4:25 is completely sandwiched between 2 verses which indicate when we believe on Him Who raised up Jesus from the dead ... righteousness is imputed to us and we are justified by faith:

Romans 4:

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

That is what God wants us to know in Romans 4:25.

Quit conflating records in Scripture ... read Scripture as God has written it. Read Scripture the way you would read a book ... or if you are not interested in reading the whole Bible, at least read each book that way. Start at Rom 1:1 and read all the way to Rom 16:27. When you're done, read it again from 1:1 to 16:27. Let God work on your heart to bring increase and understanding.

if being delivered for our offences did not satisfy completely Gods Law and Justice for our sins, did not fully wipe our record clean before Him, then Christ would not have risen from the dead

false claim.

I have already shown you Scripture which states that the Lord Jesus Christ could not be held by the grave. In other words, the Lord Jesus Christ would have risen from the grave if no one believed.

I will answer the question for you, brightfame52:

Even if no one believed, the Lord Jesus Christ would not have remained in the grave because, according to Acts 2:24, it was not possible that He should be holden of it.

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

If you disagree, please provide Scripture (chapter and verse) which indicates the Lord Jesus Christ would have remained in the grave.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Its already a given known fact that Christ exclusively died for His Elect, or His Sheep, or Church. So thats the worlds He Loved and died for.

nope ... what is "already a given known fact" is that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the world, the whole world. In your attempt to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma, you have to manipulate Scripture and that is something God warns against. Just read Scripture as written. God knows what He is doing:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

1 Cor 2:14 says it plainly that the natural cannot spiritually understand the Gospel

nope ... 1 Cor 2:14 states the natural man cannot understand the hidden wisdom of God spoken of in 1 Cor 2:6-7.

Again, reading the context within which 1 Cor 2:14 sits, we find that 1 Cor 2:6-7 is talking about the hidden wisdom. The hidden wisdom is not the same as the Gospel. The Gospel was never hid by God. The Gospel is declared throughout all of Scripture ... from Genesis to Revelation.

1 Corinthians 2:

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect [of full age, mature]: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The hidden wisdom was not revealed in prior generations according to Eph 3:8 and Col 1:26:

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ

Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints

Yet the Gospel is proclaimed throughout all of Scripture ... from Genesis to Revelation.

For you to continue to insist that the Gospel is the hidden wisdom spoken of in 1 Cor 2:6-7&14, Eph 3:9, and Col 1:26 is error on your part.

Even the devil knew the Gospel because we know the devil said to the Lord Jesus Christ I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God – Luke 4:34

However, 1 Cor 2:8 tells us that if the devil and his cohorts had known the hidden wisdom, they would never have crucified the Lord Jesus Christ.

So, the devil knew the gospel which, according to you, is the hidden wisdom of 1 Cor 2:6-7 & 14 but according to Scripture, the devil would not have crucified the Lord of glory if he had known it but, according to you, he knew it and crucified the Lord Jesus Christ anyway???

I will believe God on this one and leave you to your erroneous dogma.

So prior to regeneration we lack the Spiritual capacity to receive, understand spiritually the Gospel

Your continued insistence that the Gospel is the hidden wisdom of 1 Cor 2:14 conflicts with Scripture.

Quit trying to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma. You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Justification of the elect occurred before they believe

nope ... righteousness is imputed when a person believes:

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

No faith in the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ = no righteousness ... no remission of sins that are past.


Romans 4:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 4:3 tells us righteousness is imputed when a person believes.

Romans 4:4-5 tell us faith ≠ works. So for you to continue to insist that faith is some sort of "work" on the part of man is nothing but you trying to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma.

sometime in their life, they will be regenerated and brought into contact with the Gospel, which Gospel the forgiveness of their sins is preached to them, or their Justification from sin is announced, or declared to them

You believe that the gospel is "the forgiveness of their sins is preached to them, or their Justification from sin is announced, or declared to them" ???

That is not the gospel. I can believe from here to kingdom come that no sin is imputed to me, but that will not save me.

The gospel is the Lord Jesus Christ is Lord. The Lord Jesus Christ died for my sins as stated in Scripture. The Lord Jesus Christ was buried and the Lord Jesus Christ arose from the dead the third day as stated in Scripture.

Romans 10:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Confess with my mouth that the Lord Jesus Christ is Lord. This is more than just saying the words. Anyone can say the words "Lord Jesus Christ".

Believe in my heart that God raised the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead. This is more than just mental assent ... that some folks "say a guy rose from the dead". This is belief from the heart ... you know in your knower.

The word "confess" in vs 9 is translated from the Greek word homologéō which means to voice the same conclusion, i.e. agree ("confess"); to profess (confess) because in full agreement; to align with (endorse); speak the same thing, i.e. "assent, agree with, confess, declare, admit" (Vine, Unger, White, NT, 120)

Someone preached the Gospel to me and I did not suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18). Instead of suppressing the truth, I agreed and "confessed" ...

I confessed that the Lord Jesus Christ is Lord in my life and I believed in my heart that God raised Him from the dead. At that very moment, I was saved ... justified and made righteous ... right at that moment (notwithstanding the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified and arose 2000 yrs ago).

At that very moment, I was no longer under lordship of the god of this world. I belong to the Lord Jesus Christ because I declared Him as my Lord over me. The devil no longer has a hold on me (even though he will try his darnedest to trick me ... just like he did with the Lord Jesus Christ if thou be the son of God – Matt 4:3). No ifs, ands, or buts about it. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God and I belong to Him. And He, as my Lord, leads me through this life. He is Lord of All that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Why do you feel the need to conflate what is written in Romans 8:33-34 with what is written in Romans 4:25?

If God had wanted Romans 8:33-34 to be part of the context of Romans 4:25, He would have included the verses within the context of Romans 4:25.

The fact that God did not include Romans 8:33-34 in Romans 4:25 is indicative that He wanted to include in the context of Romans 4:25 the verses with which He surrounded 4:25 ... and it just so happens that Romans 4:25 is completely sandwiched between 2 verses which indicate when we believe on Him Who raised up Jesus from the dead ... righteousness is imputed to us and we are justified by faith:

Romans 4:

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

That is what God wants us to know in Romans 4:25.

Quit conflating records in Scripture ... read Scripture as God has written it. Read Scripture the way you would read a book ... or if you are not interested in reading the whole Bible, at least read each book that way. Start at Rom 1:1 and read all the way to Rom 16:27. When you're done, read it again from 1:1 to 16:27. Let God work on your heart to bring increase and understanding.




brightfame52 said:
if being delivered for our offences did not satisfy completely Gods Law and Justice for our sins, did not fully wipe our record clean before Him, then Christ would not have risen from the dead
false claim.

I have already shown you Scripture which states that the Lord Jesus Christ could not be held by the grave. In other words, the Lord Jesus Christ would have risen from the grave if no one believed.

The elect whom Christ died for, that death of His Justified them before God, and the resurrection of Christ gives evidence of that Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

 

[brightfame52]

nope ... what is "already a given known fact" is that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the world, the whole world. In your attempt to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma, you have to manipulate Scripture and that is something God warns against. Just read Scripture as written. God knows what He is doing:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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Those verses pertain to the elect exclusively.

 

[brightfame52]

nope ... 1 Cor 2:14 states the natural man cannot understand the hidden wisdom of God spoken of in 1 Cor 2:6-7.

Again, reading the context within which 1 Cor 2:14 sits, we find that 1 Cor 2:6-7 is talking about the hidden wisdom. The hidden wisdom is not the same as the Gospel. The Gospel was never hid by God. The Gospel is declared throughout all of Scripture ... from Genesis to Revelation.

1 Corinthians 2:

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect [of full age, mature]: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The hidden wisdom was not revealed in prior generations according to Eph 3:8 and Col 1:26:

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ

Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints

Yet the Gospel is proclaimed throughout all of Scripture ... from Genesis to Revelation.

For you to continue to insist that the Gospel is the hidden wisdom spoken of in 1 Cor 2:6-7&14, Eph 3:9, and Col 1:26 is error on your part.

Even the devil knew the Gospel because we know the devil said to the Lord Jesus Christ I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God – Luke 4:34

However, 1 Cor 2:8 tells us that if the devil and his cohorts had known the hidden wisdom, they would never have crucified the Lord Jesus Christ.

So, the devil knew the gospel which, according to you, is the hidden wisdom of 1 Cor 2:6-7 & 14 but according to Scripture, the devil would not have crucified the Lord of glory if he had known it but, according to you, he knew it and crucified the Lord Jesus Christ anyway???

I will believe God on this one and leave you to your erroneous dogma.





Your continued insistence that the Gospel is the hidden wisdom of 1 Cor 2:14 conflicts with Scripture.

Quit trying to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma. You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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The natural man cannot receive the Spiritual things of God, which the Gospel is. Paul calls the Gospel Spiritual things 1 Cor 9:11

If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

John Gill writes of 1 Cor 9:11

If we have sown unto you spiritual things,.... The preachers of the Gospel are compared to sowers of seed; the seed they sow is the word of God, which is like to seed, for its smallness and despicableness in the eyes of carnal men; and yet as the seed is the choicest which is laid by for sowing, the Gospel is most choice and excellent to true believers;

 

[brightfame52]

wrong ... 1 Cor 2:14 tells us the natural man receiveth not the hidden wisdom spoken of in 1 Cor 2:7. Quit conflating the gospel with the hidden wisdom about which, apparently, you know nothing.

God never hid the gospel. The gospel is revealed in Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.

The hidden wisdom was hid from ages and from generations (Col 1:26).


Getting back to what is written in John 3, the Lord Jesus Christ makes clear that the reason Nicodemus did not know these things (vs 10) was because he did not receive [lambanō] the witness:

John 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

Jesus makes clear that it was not because Nicodemus could not hear or that Nicodemus could not understand ... but because Nicodemus did not receive our witness.

The word "receive" is translated from the Greek word lambanō which means:

"actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively)accepting what is available (offered). 2983/lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.​

HELPS Word-studies​

... and I know you will not receive the witness because your erroneous dogma requires that one must be regenerated (born again) before he/she can hear. Well that information is not included in the record in John 3 so you're going to have to find another record in Scripture to support your claim.
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The Gospel is and always has been hidden to the natural man, them which are lost. 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

2 Cor 4:3-4



3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

brightfame52 said:

Justification of the elect occurred before they believe
nope ... righteousness is imputed when a person believes:

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

No faith in the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ = no righteousness ... no remission of sins that are past.


Romans 4:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 4:3 tells us righteousness is imputed when a person believes.

Romans 4:4-5 tell us faith ≠ works. So for you to continue to insist that faith is some sort of "work" on the part of man is nothing but you trying to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma.

Oh no, Righteousness/Justification is imputed to a person by virtue of Christs death for them, and then later on they are given Faith to believe.

Christs death for His Sheep occurred in 33 ad, but some of His Sheep weren't born sinners until the 1900s, well when they were born sinners, they were born Justified and forgiven from all their sins, by what happened for them in 33 ad at the Cross. And since they are Justified by the cross, they are given new spiritual life and then Faith to believe the Gospel of their Justification.

 

[brightfame52]

How to deny Justification by Grace !

There's Two scriptures, the Word of God, that clearly state that Justification is by the Grace of God Rom 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Titus 3:7

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Now a way that evil men deny this Spiritual Blessing in Christ Jesus is by stating or even inferring that one for whom Christ died, is not Justified before God and by God [for it is God that Justifieth Rom 8:33] before they become believers, for if we in any degree believe that or lend support to that, we deny Justification by Grace, and at the same time lend support to Justification by works !

 

[OIC1965]

Friend the Holy Ghost didn't die for sins, neither does scripture declare that. You quoting that scripture is pointless in that regard.

The 'HE" is referring to God in the phrase "church of God".

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The elect whom Christ died for

"The elect whom Christ died for" – I have provided Scriptural support which indicates the Lord Jesus Christ died for the world, the whole world ... that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

You reject Scripture and have provided absolutely no Scriptural support for your claim that the world, the whole world, whosoever believeth equals a subgroup of humanity which you deem to be "elect".

You suppress the truth in unrighteousness in your feeble attempts to support erroneous dogma.

that death of His Justified them before God, and the resurrection of Christ gives evidence of that Rom 4:25

Romans 4:

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 25 –

for our offences – because we had offended

for our justification – because our justification was effected – the work which forever secured justification was completed ... finished.


And justification is imputed if we believe (Rom 4:24) and when we believe, therefore being justified by faith (Rom 5:1).

And, according to Acts 2:24, even if no one believed, the Lord Jesus Christ would not have remained in the grave because it was not possible that He should be holden of it

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.


So, your claim in your Post 2964 that "if being delivered for our offences did not satisfy completely Gods Law and Justice for our sins, did not fully wipe our record clean before Him, then Christ would not have risen from the dead" is a lie from the pit ... false doctrine.
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