Doctrine of Unconditional Election
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One's belief does not/cannot save anyone. Instead, with the Eunuch (and as with all saved) belief comes from
salvation, not the reverse. That he was saved is evidenced by the fact that God led Philip to
preach the gospel to him having saved him first. Many hear the gospel with man's ears, but only those saved
can hear with spiritual ears and truly comprehend - likewise, the Eunuch - he did not/could not of himself come
to true faith but only because he was already indwelt with/by the Holy Spirit.
Saviour is a title which is only rightfully reserved for and belonging to Christ; no man can lay claim to it.
However, you, and your theology, would replace Christ with yourself.
And that unequivocally is a violation to and direct contradiction of the gospel.
salvation, not the reverse. That he was saved is evidenced by the fact that God led Philip to
preach the gospel to him having saved him first. Many hear the gospel with man's ears, but only those saved
can hear with spiritual ears and truly comprehend - likewise, the Eunuch - he did not/could not of himself come
to true faith but only because he was already indwelt with/by the Holy Spirit.
Saviour is a title which is only rightfully reserved for and belonging to Christ; no man can lay claim to it.
However, you, and your theology, would replace Christ with yourself.
And that unequivocally is a violation to and direct contradiction of the gospel.
To believe is a gift - a fruit of the Spirit. The salvation your verse references is actually of final salvation occurring in the day of the Lord - the last day.
[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[Jhn 10:26 KJV] 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
[1Co 5:5 KJV] 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[Jhn 10:26 KJV] 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
[1Co 5:5 KJV] 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Do you mean Romans 11:6?
And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
Does that mean you count faith as a work?
And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
Does that mean you count faith as a work?
[Jhn 6:28-29 KJV]
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
That's true. God saves people when they decide to believe the gospel.
That is exactly backwards.
The Eunuch was not saved until Philip preached Jesus to him.
No, people do not become saved until they hear the gospel and decide to believe it.
Again, exactly backwards.
That's right.
That's not right.
I do not understand why people are drawn to Calvinism. The only thing I can figure is that generally speaking, people do not like responsibility, and Calvinism removes all responsibility from people and puts it all on someone else, in this case God. It's basically fate. You won the lottery, and those poor unbelievers are the unlucky losers.
That is exactly backwards.
The Eunuch was not saved until Philip preached Jesus to him.
No, people do not become saved until they hear the gospel and decide to believe it.
Again, exactly backwards.
That's right.
That's not right.
I do not understand why people are drawn to Calvinism. The only thing I can figure is that generally speaking, people do not like responsibility, and Calvinism removes all responsibility from people and puts it all on someone else, in this case God. It's basically fate. You won the lottery, and those poor unbelievers are the unlucky losers.
There are so many different views on this. I was under the impression that you were an
anti-Calvinist, and I apologize if I got you confused with someone else (since your view
as expressed above seems to fall into that "camp." Though truly it would be nice of these
things could be discussed without all the Calvin this and Calvin that LOL)
anti-Calvinist, and I apologize if I got you confused with someone else (since your view
as expressed above seems to fall into that "camp." Though truly it would be nice of these
things could be discussed without all the Calvin this and Calvin that LOL)
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Not possible. Those dead in sin cannot decide.
You don't believe Christ is the Saviour?
Nope. The preaching and belief occurred after his salvation.
[Luk 8:10 KJV] 10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
According to you maybe, but that doesn't make it so.
[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Because Christ is the Saviour, we are not. What do you think Christ as Saviour means?
The responsibility for salvation is upon God alone. Would you turn it into a work of man?
You would place the responsibility for your salvation under your own works?
You don't believe Christ is the Saviour?
Nope. The preaching and belief occurred after his salvation.
[Luk 8:10 KJV] 10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
According to you maybe, but that doesn't make it so.
[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Because Christ is the Saviour, we are not. What do you think Christ as Saviour means?
The responsibility for salvation is upon God alone. Would you turn it into a work of man?
You would place the responsibility for your salvation under your own works?
Jesus Christ is the Savior. He provided the way to salvation. He died for the sins of the whole world. Salvation is available to anyone, and anyone has the capacity to decide to believe the gospel. That's why we preach it to people. We are ambassadors for Christ. If God determines who is saved and people have no say in it, then being an ambassador for Christ is meaningless. For that matter, life is meaningless. We're all puppets, marionettes in a predetermined puppet show. where God pulls all the strings.
I don't buy it.
I know you do, and neither of us is likely to change our mind. But maybe.... You never know.
I don't buy it.
I know you do, and neither of us is likely to change our mind. But maybe.... You never know.
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"a way to salvation" in effect means that you are saying that He is not the Saviour - the Saviour, in order to be the Saviour, must alone be
the one who saves without any other explicit or implicit conditions. Anything short of that, is in effect saying that He is not. He either fully is, or He isn't - can't have it both ways. Just being "a way to salvation" is worthless.
the one who saves without any other explicit or implicit conditions. Anything short of that, is in effect saying that He is not. He either fully is, or He isn't - can't have it both ways. Just being "a way to salvation" is worthless.
Question: how can someone be the Saviour without being the one who does the saving?
Answer: he can't - so therefore, a logical impossibility!
Seriously?
Definition of Saviour:
saviour, deliverer, preserver
That definition leaves no room for anyone besides Christ.
Wait.. do you hear what you just said? You've contradicted yourself within two sentences - both statements simply cannot be true. For a true Saviour there can be no "but(s)" associated to Him - it's all or nothing.
People believe BECAUSE they've been saved. - saved by the SAVIOUR. Did you not read/understand Gal 5:22? Faith comes from the Holy Spirit in becoming born-again as a part of salvation.
If people have to believe in order to be saved, then by that, and were it even possible for someone to do, that would beyond question make them their own saviour, not Christ.
Answer: he can't - so therefore, a logical impossibility!
Seriously?
Definition of Saviour:
saviour, deliverer, preserver
That definition leaves no room for anyone besides Christ.
Wait.. do you hear what you just said? You've contradicted yourself within two sentences - both statements simply cannot be true. For a true Saviour there can be no "but(s)" associated to Him - it's all or nothing.
People believe BECAUSE they've been saved. - saved by the SAVIOUR. Did you not read/understand Gal 5:22? Faith comes from the Holy Spirit in becoming born-again as a part of salvation.
If people have to believe in order to be saved, then by that, and were it even possible for someone to do, that would beyond question make them their own saviour, not Christ.