The Heresy of Perfectionism

[4runner]

and there are many who want to claim to be teachers and do not listen when people say they are only brethren and child of God seeking to grow in Christ and learn His will who will place on your shoulders the yoke of the law and place you back in the bondage of lies and deception.

they will yell "Attack" whenever anyone says anything that disagrees with their beliefs and not actually read what is going on or discuss what others think but instead play victim or become offensive and start attacking themselves.

Yes it is very sad that someone would act this way. smh

 

[zone]

The Heresy of Perfectionism

from R.C. Sproul Mar 14, 2011 Category: R.C. Sproul

An ancient heresy of the distinction between two types of Christians, carnal and Spirit-filled, is the heresy of perfectionism. Perfectionism teaches that there is a class of Christians who achieve moral perfection in this life. To be sure, credit is given to the Holy Spirit as the agent who brings total victory over sin to the Christian. But there is a kind of elitism in perfectionism, a feeling that those who have achieved perfection are somehow greater than other Christians. The “perfect” ones do not officially—take credit for their state, but smugness and pride have a way of creeping in.

The peril of perfectionism is that it seriously distorts the human mind. Imagine the contortions through which we must put ourselves to delude us into thinking that we have in fact achieved a state of sinlessness.

Inevitably the error of perfectionism breeds one, or usually two, deadly delusions. To convince ourselves that we have achieved sinlessness, we must either suffer from a radical overestimation of our moral performance or we must seriously underestimate the requirements of God’s law. The irony of perfectionism is this: Though it seeks to distance itself from antinomianism, it relentlessly and inevitably comes full circle to the same error.

To believe that we are sinless we must annul the standards of God’s Law. We must reduce the level of divine righteousness to the level of our own performance. We must lie to ourselves both about the Law of God and about our own obedience. To do that requires that we quench the Spirit when He seeks to convict us of sin. Persons who do that are not so much Spirit-filled as they are Spirit-quenchers.

One of the true marks of our ongoing sanctification is the growing awareness of how far short we fall of reaching perfection. Perfectionism is really antiperfectionism in disguise. If we think we are becoming perfect, then we are far from becoming perfect.

I once encountered a young man who had been a Christian for about a year. He boldly declared to me that he had received the “second blessing” and was now enjoying a life of victory, a life of sinless perfection. I immediately turned his attention to Paul’s teaching on Romans 7. Romans 7 is the biblical death blow to every doctrine of perfectionism. My young friend quickly replied with the classic agreement of the perfectionist heresy, namely, that in Romans 7 Paul is describing his former unconverted state.

I explained to the young man that it is exegetically impossible to dismiss Romans 7 as the expression of Paul’s former life. We examined the passage closely and the man finally agreed that indeed Paul was writing in the present tense. His next response was, “Well, maybe Paul Was speaking of his present experience, but he just hadn’t received the second blessing yet.”

I had a difficult time concealing my astonishment at this spiritual arrogance. I asked him pointedly, “You mean that You, at age nineteen, after one year of Christian faith, have achieved a higher level of obedience to God than the apostle Paul enjoyed when he was writing the Epistle to the Romans?”
To my everlasting shock the young man replied without flinching, “Yes!” Such is the extent to which persons will delude themselves into thinking that they have achieved sinlessness.

I spoke once with a woman who claimed the same “second blessing” of perfectionism who qualified her claim a bit. She said that she was fully sanctified into holiness so that she never committed any willful sins. But she acknowledged that occasionally she still committed sins, though never willfully. Her present sins were unwillful.

What in the world is an unwillful sin? All sin involves the exercise of the will. If an action happens apart from the will it is not a moral action. The involuntary beating of my heart is not a moral action. All sin is willful. Indeed, the corrupt inclination of the will is of the very essence of sin. There is no sin without the willing of sin. The woman was excusing her own sin by denying that she had willed to commit the sin. The sin just sort of “happened.” It was the oldest self-justification known to man: “I didn’t mean to do it!”

In one strand of the Wesleyan tradition there is another type of qualified perfectionism. Here the achievement of perfection is limited to a perfected love. We may continue to struggle with certain moral weaknesses, but at least we can receive the blessing of a perfected love. But think on this a moment. If we received the blessing of a love that was absolutely perfect, how then would we ever commit any kind of sin? If I ever loved God perfectly, I would will only obedience to Him. How could a creature who loved God perfectly ever sin against Him at all?

Someone might answer: “We could still sin against Him in ignorance.” But the perfect love with which we are called to love God is a perfect love of our minds as well as our hearts. If we perfectly loved God with all of our minds, from whence could this ignorance flow? One who loves God perfectly with the mind is perfectly diligent in studying and mastering the Word of God. The perfectly loving mind perceives correctly the light into our paths. A perfectly loving mind doesn’t make errors in understanding Scripture.

But could we not still make mistakes because our minds are less than perfect? I ask why our minds are less than perfect. It is not because we lack brains or the faculty of thinking. Our thinking is clouded because our hearts are clouded. Take away the cloud from our hearts and our minds are illumined by the clear light of God.

A perfect love would yield perfect obedience. The only perfected love this world has ever seen was the love of Christ, who exhibited perfect obedience. Jesus loved the Father perfectly. He sinned not at all, either willfully or in ignorance.

The Heresy of Perfectionism by R.C. Sproul | Ligonier Ministries Blog

________________________

 

[unclefester]

The Heresy of Perfectionism

from R.C. Sproul Mar 14, 2011 Category: R.C. Sproul

An ancient heresy of the distinction between two types of Christians, carnal and Spirit-filled, is the heresy of perfectionism. Perfectionism teaches that there is a class of Christians who achieve moral perfection in this life. To be sure, credit is given to the Holy Spirit as the agent who brings total victory over sin to the Christian. But there is a kind of elitism in perfectionism, a feeling that those who have achieved perfection are somehow greater than other Christians. The “perfect” ones do not officially—take credit for their state, but smugness and pride have a way of creeping in.

The peril of perfectionism is that it seriously distorts the human mind. Imagine the contortions through which we must put ourselves to delude us into thinking that we have in fact achieved a state of sinlessness.

Inevitably the error of perfectionism breeds one, or usually two, deadly delusions. To convince ourselves that we have achieved sinlessness, we must either suffer from a radical overestimation of our moral performance or we must seriously underestimate the requirements of God’s law. The irony of perfectionism is this: Though it seeks to distance itself from antinomianism, it relentlessly and inevitably comes full circle to the same error.

To believe that we are sinless we must annul the standards of God’s Law. We must reduce the level of divine righteousness to the level of our own performance. We must lie to ourselves both about the Law of God and about our own obedience. To do that requires that we quench the Spirit when He seeks to convict us of sin. Persons who do that are not so much Spirit-filled as they are Spirit-quenchers.

One of the true marks of our ongoing sanctification is the growing awareness of how far short we fall of reaching perfection. Perfectionism is really antiperfectionism in disguise. If we think we are becoming perfect, then we are far from becoming perfect.

I once encountered a young man who had been a Christian for about a year. He boldly declared to me that he had received the “second blessing” and was now enjoying a life of victory, a life of sinless perfection. I immediately turned his attention to Paul’s teaching on Romans 7. Romans 7 is the biblical death blow to every doctrine of perfectionism. My young friend quickly replied with the classic agreement of the perfectionist heresy, namely, that in Romans 7 Paul is describing his former unconverted state.

I explained to the young man that it is exegetically impossible to dismiss Romans 7 as the expression of Paul’s former life. We examined the passage closely and the man finally agreed that indeed Paul was writing in the present tense. His next response was, “Well, maybe Paul Was speaking of his present experience, but he just hadn’t received the second blessing yet.”

I had a difficult time concealing my astonishment at this spiritual arrogance. I asked him pointedly, “You mean that You, at age nineteen, after one year of Christian faith, have achieved a higher level of obedience to God than the apostle Paul enjoyed when he was writing the Epistle to the Romans?”
To my everlasting shock the young man replied without flinching, “Yes!” Such is the extent to which persons will delude themselves into thinking that they have achieved sinlessness.

I spoke once with a woman who claimed the same “second blessing” of perfectionism who qualified her claim a bit. She said that she was fully sanctified into holiness so that she never committed any willful sins. But she acknowledged that occasionally she still committed sins, though never willfully. Her present sins were unwillful.

What in the world is an unwillful sin? All sin involves the exercise of the will. If an action happens apart from the will it is not a moral action. The involuntary beating of my heart is not a moral action. All sin is willful. Indeed, the corrupt inclination of the will is of the very essence of sin. There is no sin without the willing of sin. The woman was excusing her own sin by denying that she had willed to commit the sin. The sin just sort of “happened.” It was the oldest self-justification known to man: “I didn’t mean to do it!”

In one strand of the Wesleyan tradition there is another type of qualified perfectionism. Here the achievement of perfection is limited to a perfected love. We may continue to struggle with certain moral weaknesses, but at least we can receive the blessing of a perfected love. But think on this a moment. If we received the blessing of a love that was absolutely perfect, how then would we ever commit any kind of sin? If I ever loved God perfectly, I would will only obedience to Him. How could a creature who loved God perfectly ever sin against Him at all?

Someone might answer: “We could still sin against Him in ignorance.” But the perfect love with which we are called to love God is a perfect love of our minds as well as our hearts. If we perfectly loved God with all of our minds, from whence could this ignorance flow? One who loves God perfectly with the mind is perfectly diligent in studying and mastering the Word of God. The perfectly loving mind perceives correctly the light into our paths. A perfectly loving mind doesn’t make errors in understanding Scripture.

But could we not still make mistakes because our minds are less than perfect? I ask why our minds are less than perfect. It is not because we lack brains or the faculty of thinking. Our thinking is clouded because our hearts are clouded. Take away the cloud from our hearts and our minds are illumined by the clear light of God.

A perfect love would yield perfect obedience. The only perfected love this world has ever seen was the love of Christ, who exhibited perfect obedience. Jesus loved the Father perfectly. He sinned not at all, either willfully or in ignorance.

The Heresy of Perfectionism by R.C. Sproul | Ligonier Ministries Blog

Just an excellent piece this is. The entire article is worthy of highlighting.

 

[4runner]

A perfect love would yield perfect obedience.

So true

The only perfected love this world has ever seen was the love of Christ who exhibited perfect obedience

Also true

Jesus loved the Father perfectly. He sinned not at all, either willfully or in ignorance.

And as He did not sin in His own flesh, He can not sin in mine.

 

[unclefester]

And as He did not sin in His own flesh, He can not sin in mine.

Also true. But YOU can....and sometimes do. Hey.....it rhymes.

 

[zone]

Also true. But YOU can....and sometimes do. Hey.....it rhymes.

hey Fes.
you'll find Hamilton covers the perfectionist heretics in his sermon series.
interesting history on them.
interesting cluster of false doctrines that always appear with them.
duh.

 

[unclefester]

hey Fes.
you'll find Hamilton covers the perfectionist heretics in his sermon series.
interesting history on them.
interesting cluster of false doctrines that always appear with them.
duh.

They're the first thing on my morning menu.......along with my cup or two of coffee

 

[WeStand]

1st John CH:5 10

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1st John CH:5 16

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death ( 10 COMMANDMENTS) he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

17: All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

BUT ONE THING; NEVER HAVE THE WRONG FATHER!

Forever in Christ

 

[AnandaHya]

1st John CH:5 10

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1st John CH:5 16

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death ( 10 COMMANDMENTS) he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

17: All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

BUT ONE THING; NEVER HAVE THE WRONG FATHER!

Forever in Christ

the only unforgivable sin I've read about in the Bible is denying the Holy Spirit and that Jesus Christ came from God.

 

[AnandaHya]

So true Also trueAnd as He did not sin in His own flesh, He can not sin in mine.

you still have your sinful flesh and your obedience to the will of God is not perfect like Jesus was. that is why Jesus is needed as an mediator for when we transgress. not if, WHEN.

that is why Jesus taught his disciples to pray DAILY for forgiveness of their sins and transgressions and to forgive others because of their own need for forgiveness.

it is to keep His disciples humble. that is why Paul had a thorn in his flesh, to keep him humble despite the divine visions he experienced. It reminds him it is only through God's grace through His son Jesus Christ that anyone is made righteous. Not through our own works but justification through FAITH.

If you have FAITH in Jesus Christ and what HE did on the cross then you will have fruit and obey and complete the works and race God has planned for you to do when He created you.

Salvation is not given to the lawless but the ones who submit to GOD and His will. His will is to save the world through Faith in Jesus Christ for the remission of sins upon His death on the cross and resurrection.

you don't channel Jesus. you grow and learn to make your flesh obey your will as your will is transformed into the likeness of Christ and made into oneness with His will for you and this world through submission and obedience. You have been given a new heart and new spirit. the flesh is still corrupted and must be made to submit to God's will. this is done through the guidance of the Holy Spirit and by the grace of GOD not by what we do but what we allow God to do in us and our lives.

 

[4runner]

you still have your sinful flesh and your obedience to the will of God is not perfect like Jesus was.

So says you not God.

2nd Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I choose to believe what God says about me

 

[AnandaHya]

So says you not God.

2nd Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I choose to believe what God says about me

no as says GOD...

Romans 7:22-24
New King James Version (NKJV)
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?

you chose to believe what your pride blinds you from seeing past. but don't worry when you fall God will still love you and you will not have lost your salvation. if the Holy Spirit within you testify that you are His child

question: did you read the rest of my post are did you stop at the first sentence the first "fault" you spotted?

 

[4runner]

no as says GOD...

Romans 7:22-24
New King James Version (NKJV)
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?

you chose to believe what your pride blinds you from seeing past. but don't worry when you fall God will still love you and you will not have lost your salvation. if the Holy Spirit within you testify that you are His child

This has to be one of the most misunderstood scriptures in all the Bible. The common belief is that Paul could not refrain himself from sin, therefore neither can we. The fact is it is through our own flesh that we cannot refrain from sin, but all of us through the Spirit of Christ that dwells in us can. Paul himself declared this in the following passages.


Romans 7:19-21
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil that i would not, that I do.
20 Now if i do that I would not, it is no more I that do it but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that when I would do good evil is present with me.
Hyper Grace teachers point out that even the greatest of all the apostles, Paul, could not refrain himself from sin. But what they seem to be willfully ignorant of, is that none of us through our own flesh can refrain from sin but all of us through the Spirit of Christ that dwells in us can.
Romans 7:24-25
24 O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with my mind I serve the law of God; but with my flesh the law of sin.
Paul could not in his flesh keep God's law.
Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is in my flesh) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Yet he goes on in the very next chapter to explain, that we cannot continue to allow our flesh to led us but through the Spirit we can keep God's law.
Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through our flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh.
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[WeStand]

the only unforgivable sin I've read about in the Bible is denying the Holy Spirit and that Jesus Christ came from God.

Hi AnnandaHya; though what you state is Truth, it comes AFTER 7 of The 10 Commandments; NEVER have the wrong Father.

Forever in Christ

 

[4runner]

you chose to believe what your pride blinds you from seeing past.?

I choose to believe what God says about me regardless of what you or anyone else thinks or says

 

[Consumed]

I choose to believe what God says about me regardless of what you or anyone else thinks or says

Brother not such much with what you believe in but how you deliver it. Does God need to send you a donkey to say it to believe that. No disrespect but lighten up, it's ok to agree to disagree and still have honor

 

[4runner]

Originally Posted by AnandaHya

you chose to believe what your pride blinds you from seeing past.?

I choose to believe what God says about me regardless of what you or anyone else thinks or says

Brother not such much with what you believe in but how you deliver it. Does God need to send you a donkey to say it to believe that. No disrespect but lighten up, it's ok to agree to disagree and still have honor

You dont like my response? Well I think what I was responding to was much worse. Either say it both ways or say nothing at all please

 

[4runner]

When we first come to Christ He bids us to give up all our WRONGS to Him but as we continue our walk with Him, He will require our RIGHTS also. Thats what makes it so difficult for today's church members to truly follow Christ, as most have never even been ask to give up their wrongs. The church just smiles and tells them they cant overcome sin

 

[Consumed]

You dont like my response? Well I think what I was responding to was much worse. Either say it both ways or say nothing at all please

Response?? Bro overall I was speaking of, you only react you don't know the difference of responding and reacting.

 

[4runner]

No man can earn his salvation but he must meet God's requirements.Keeping God's commandments and being faithful to our Lord is not a burdensome thing for those who love Him with ALL their heart.But those who don't love Him will find it impossible