The Heresy of Perfectionism

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AnandaHya

Guest
James 4

11 Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is one Lawgiver,[d] who is able to save and to destroy. Who[e] are you to judge another?[f
 
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Nalu

Guest
Dont be baited, dont feed them, it will just tire you, cause you to get tired and fall
and lose your witness.
after the first and second admonition, reject.
If a man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
resist!

This is very wise.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes, they believed not the truth that they could be saved (from their sin), just like you. I pray you, come out of your delusion, and receive the truth before you are damned.

I am being totally honest, I am praying for you.
Why because I don't think I can be saved from my sin? I have been saved from My Sin. I HAVE eternal life. I AM A child of God. I am a joint heir with Christ. I have a house being made for me in Heaven. And all of this because of Christ and his death.

But thats ok. Keep working for it. God might let you in of your own merit. Oh wait. No he wont!!
 
Jul 3, 2011
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Why because I don't think I can be saved from my sin? I have been saved from My Sin. I HAVE eternal life. I AM A child of God. I am a joint heir with Christ. I have a house being made for me in Heaven. And all of this because of Christ and his death.

But thats ok. Keep working for it. God might let you in of your own merit. Oh wait. No he wont!!
Actually you have been sent a delusion, because you refuse to believe the truth.
 
C

Consumed

Guest
What I love about Jesus, He come to save and not condemn and never specifically point a individual out directly to condemn them with damnation if they didn't heed His words .
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
What I love about Jesus, He come to save and not condemn and never specifically point a individual out directly to condemn them with damnation if they didn't heed His words .
:) God is Wonderful :)

Matthew 12:7
But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless.

John 3:17
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
 
Jul 3, 2011
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What I love about Jesus, He come to save and not condemn and never specifically point a individual out directly to condemn them with damnation if they didn't heed His words .
I agree Jesus is awesome, but what do you think Paul meant when he wrote about the strong delusion in 2nd Thess 2. What was the delusion, and why was it sent?
 
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Consumed

Guest
I agree Jesus is awesome, but what do you think Paul meant when he wrote about the strong delusion in 2nd Thess 2. What was the delusion, and why was it sent?
You asking me brother?? Honestly I refrain from answering cause of the possibility of you throwing the same statement at me if you don't agree with me lol . That's wisdom and honestly from my heart, I don't mean disrespect cause I can see truth in both of what you were saying, just each from a different perspective. We are to encourage not tear down, this is the result when harsh condemning words are used, I just bow out graceful as I can and be open and honest why. God knows how to pull me up as long as I stay open to Him. Who I choose counsel from derives from wisdom in proverbs.
Love you brother, for you have the passion no doubt about it
 
Jul 3, 2011
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You asking me brother?? Honestly I refrain from answering cause of the possibility of you throwing the same statement at me if you don't agree with me lol . That's wisdom and honestly from my heart, I don't mean disrespect cause I can see truth in both of what you were saying, just each from a different perspective. We are to encourage not tear down, this is the result when harsh condemning words are used, I just bow out graceful as I can and be open and honest why. God knows how to pull me up as long as I stay open to Him. Who I choose counsel from derives from wisdom in proverbs.
Love you brother, for you have the passion no doubt about it
Well I believe he was talking about people that think they can be ''saved'' from the penalty of sin without being ''saved'' from sin because they love unrighteousness.

I believe the strong delusion is their belief that they are ''saved'' from the penalty of sin.

This is not condemnation it is reproval maybe even rebuke, but we are commanded in scripture to do this.

2nd Timothy 4
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
 
C

Consumed

Guest
Well I believe he was talking about people that think they can be ''saved'' from the penalty of sin without being ''saved'' from sin because they love unrighteousness.

I believe the strong delusion is their belief that they are ''saved'' from the penalty of sin.

This is not condemnation it is reproval maybe even rebuke, but we are commanded in scripture to do this.

2nd Timothy 4
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Brother, please I don't see anyone endorsing to live a life of unrighteousness but to allow, by the grace of God, the santification of ones walk. Same place we walk to, Calvary, where we die to self along the way, then we will be lifted up. Paul makes clear it's not a liscence to sin. Condemning part is saying his delusional and damned for thinking that way, when you do that with anyone on anything, walls go up and if there was a seed from God in it in comes the crows and takes it.
We are all a work in progress.you me everyone. I do admire how straight forth you are, I was worse once lol left a trial of bloodied bodies from all the rocks, and scripture was the rocks I was using til God sorted me out.
 
Jul 3, 2011
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Brother, please I don't see anyone endorsing to live a life of unrighteousness but to allow, by the grace of God, the santification of ones walk. Same place we walk to, Calvary, where we die to self along the way, then we will be lifted up. Paul makes clear it's not a liscence to sin. Condemning part is saying his delusional and damned for thinking that way, when you do that with anyone on anything, walls go up and if there was a seed from God in it in comes the crows and takes it.
We are all a work in progress.you me everyone. I do admire how straight forth you are, I was worse once lol left a trial of bloodied bodies from all the rocks, and scripture was the rocks I was using til God sorted me out.
Eg, does not believe we can be saved from our sin, and believes I am an heretic because i do. With that in mind re-read my last post.
 
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Consumed

Guest
Eg, does not believe we can be saved from our sin, and believes I am an heretic because i do. With that in mind re-read my last post.
First let me address this, if someone throws a stone don't throw one back, two wrongs dont make a right. Desire to be more effective? dont use certain scriptures as a bowling ball, Gospel is whole not part, we have to divide it correctly. What makes it hard for me in a forum is lets say like grace,I understand grace and the ever present mind to walk in His light, if someone says just the word grace others will say he is deluding himself or lost that there's more to it, its on, trying to wrangle what is true to them and what one might perceive to be false in what they said. Communication is a fine art, especially in today's day and age. Now I have no need to justify myself if I use wisdom I wouldn't put myself in that predicament.
I found sharing the gospel takes patience honor and respect to meet people where they are at and let the holy spirit guide us both, me sharing them taking it in. I pray Lord how can I reach them, if I just use logos it's to no avail, but I know if I use love, which isn't rude but gentle that opens the door for the Holy Spirit to come in, I'm not using my flesh and arrogance in what I know. That's what iv learnt anyway. God deals with us individually I'm sure your aware in refining our ways to be like His. How Paul started he didn't finish, he finished better than he started with more understanding of true grace with love but giving the same message of crucifying the flesh.

And 4runner, I'm by no means against you and in a camp of sides, my banner is Jesus and Him alone.
 
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Dan121

Guest
I agree. Even God is not a perfectionist. i.e. He does not demand that we be perfect. Perfectionsim makes us into idols.
I have to disagree with this post. I know that no one on this earth is perfect, but how can a christian stand up and say that God is not perfect! That is how we have the remission of sin, because Jesus, God in the flesh, lived a perfect life here on this earth and became the perfect, spotless sacrifice for our sins.

As for the second part of your post, the Bible, the flawless word of God, says in 1 Peter 1:16 and Leviticus 11:44 "Be ye holy, for I am holy".

2 Samuel 22:31 - As for God, His way is perfect.

No man is perfect, we are going to go through things, but a christian is not to willfully sin, such as getting drunk or stoned, we are to have a renewing of our mind (Romans 12:2).

We are called to live a perfect life and walk that straight and narrow, not the wide road, if we want to make it to heaven, as Jesus himself said that not everyone that called his name will be saved, if you are still willfully living in sin, I am praying for you.

Matthew 7:21-23 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, be he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then I will profess unto them, I knever knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You have to live holy lives, the people that Jesus is talking about were calling on the name of Jesus and doing wonders in His name, and yet they still did not make it, they were still living in sin.


I want everyone to know that I pray for everyone on this site every night, because everyone needs prayer and can never get enough of it.

I love you all and God bless.
 
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Abiding

Guest
Hey Dan in case your a perfectionist Hearer said perfectionist, you said he said perfect.
thanks for the prayers:)
 
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Abiding

Guest
Well I believe he was talking about people that think they can be ''saved'' from the penalty of sin without being ''saved'' from sin because they love unrighteousness.

I believe the strong delusion is their belief that they are ''saved'' from the penalty of sin.

This is not condemnation it is reproval maybe even rebuke, but we are commanded in scripture to do this.

2nd Timothy 4
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
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I think you should do a couple of things 4runner.

1. Be honest before God, and understand how wicked it is to accuse anyone who doesnt believe they will
attain perfection, because first it has never happened, second scripture wont back it up, in fact quite the opposite, third, your not,so you have no proof, but scriptures you take in a wooden fashion and fail at this
time to see their intent. And you label them as evil doers, or people who love to sin, or are ok with sin, all
just plain false accusations(and youve said worst) towards those who love the Lord and resist sin by grace, just because they dont agree with your doctrine. Its a very wicked thing to accuse someone of something you havnt any proof of. If you said that in my church they would show you the door. Quit abusing this forum. And walk upright. Its a lie to falsely accuse. Your logical deductions are not logical. there called
slander.

2 No your thess2 context doesnt hold up your doctrine. Dont handle the word of God deceitfully.
Received not the Love of the truth has nothing to do with a doctrinal difference, especially like this one.
These are people who outright reject the preaching of the cross, and the grace of God. If someone has to worry about the delusion to come over the church, id say the cocky selfassured man would have the most to worry about. Spouting belief about a doctrine means nothing, it will be tested. The love of the truth is receiving the gospel message.So let a little air out of your tires. The love of God is the biggest test the bible
gives for the assurance of salvation, and that is tested by how you love the brethren, this includes people you dont like, and people with different understandings of scripture. Not your buddies, all the brethren.


Look how silly this is...Ok its judgementday...and all the faithful saints who stayed obedient to the death
lined up and they cant go in because God deluded them so they would believe a lie, because they didnt believe they would ever be perfect on earth even tho they walked towards it because that was the Holyspirits intent to have us walk towards perfection while in that action give us the grace to perform but Oh how they did their best keeping themselves abiding in him, trusting and praying for His daily grace. But you will go in although you never became perfect, but believed you would, even falsely
accusing people without two witnesses, nor did you get an admission of careless sinfulness, in fact they were holier than you, because they put their trust in the Lord, and believed that the word said that He would sanctify and glorify His children and conform them into the image of His dear Son. Like Paul said, that he was persuaded that God would finish His work in him that he committed to God. Right I can see the big
reason these should perish, its because they read the bible and didnt come up with the right doctrine, they
believed what was written and the testimony of the church since it started. How you can feel comfy with
this is beyond me. Im ok with you because I was young too. And I dont expect you to not need time to learn and grow. But the slander has got to stop. If not remember the Fathers got a woodshed.

One last thing, saved people dont believe in sinning freely, how you can think that is beyond me.
Repentance is the first step in salvation...your talking about people who have never repented by the Power
of the Holyspirit. No way do you get drawn by the Holyspirit and given the realization of your true condition
like the sermon on the mount shows, a total sence of spiritual poverty, followed by a hunger and thirst for righteousness, which is an obvious inference of hatred of sin. Those that resist the Holyspirits drawing and
stay in sin because thats how they roll are the ones that will be deluded to help out with the NWO this is in context to the days of the man of sin, hasnt hapenned yet.
 
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1joh39

Guest
Abiding, I will ask one questiuon and it is a YES or NO, answer question... Can your God make a man like me perfect here on earth, by any means? Just say Yes or no! please do not complicate the answer, and to make it less complicated... CAN YOUR GOD MAKE ME AS PERFECT AS HIMSELF RIGHT NOW IF HE WANTS TOO? YES OR NO! Your only choice!
 
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Abiding

Guest
Asking a question that says.............Can/God .........is an oxymoron.

I dont dance for a living :)
 
Jun 24, 2010
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Abiding, I will ask one questiuon and it is a YES or NO, answer question... Can your God make a man like me perfect here on earth, by any means? Just say Yes or no! please do not complicate the answer, and to make it less complicated... CAN YOUR GOD MAKE ME AS PERFECT AS HIMSELF RIGHT NOW IF HE WANTS TOO? YES OR NO! Your only choice!
If you have been saved, cleansed and justified by the blood of Christ, you are already positionally perfect before the Father. If you were not make perfect positionally, when you believed upon the Son and placed in Christ, you would not have been accepted by the Father. YES...you are perfect and complete positionally and God is working in you to become experientially what He has already made you to be in your positional standing before Him. If that is too difficult for you to understand then meditate on this truth of the finished work that was proclaimed at the cross in (Jn 19:30).

Col 2:10a And ye are complete (perfect) in him...

Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Rom 4:23-25 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

THIS NEXT VERSE IS ONE OF THE MOST GLORIOUS TRUTHS THAT WE CAN BE THANKFUL FOR AND HAVE AVAILABLE TO US IN EVERY SITUATION...

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

*When we fall we fall into the grace wherein we stand, and it is through that grace that God is able to make us stand.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

This is for all those that foolishly presume against the nature of God, the cross of Christ's finished work and the grace of God, who ignorantly preach that a believer can lose his standing with God and forfeit salvation that was given to him by grace through faith. Some that teach this terrible error are no longer on this site and thank God they are no longer among us.

There are others that are still here that need to repent from their error and sin against the Lord Jesus Christ and their condemnation of others that have been sealed by the Holy Spirit and have been given an eternal imputed gift of God's righteousness when thy believed. This can not be 'un-imputed' or taken back by an immutable God who gave it. Presuming that imputed righteousness can be forfeited is to accuse God of sin Himself, by not knowing what He was doing in the first place when He gave it to those who believed upon His Son by promise, through His death, burial and resurrection.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Actually you have been sent a delusion, because you refuse to believe the truth.
Nah. I just refuse to believe your truth. And refuse to worship your God. who is an indian giver :p