The Trinity...my take.

[heartwashed]

That's alot of hoops to jump through for someone who promotes taking verses at face value.

I don't think that it is jumping through any hoops.

1 Corinthians 2:13 gives to us a biblical hermeneutic through which we can be taught by the Holy Ghost.

 

[Cameron143]

I don't think that it is jumping through any hoops.

1 Corinthians 2:13 gives to us a biblical hermeneutic through which we can be taught by the Holy Ghost.

At face value it says there are 2 separate entities there. You not only have hoops but a trampoline.

 

[heartwashed]

At face value it says there are 2 separate entities there. You not only have hoops but a trampoline.

Obviously, the historical, orthodox, doctrine of the Trinity doesn't purport three separate beings.

It speaks of one being who is three distinct Persons

 

[Cameron143]

Obviously, the historical, orthodox, doctrine of the Trinity doesn't purport three separate beings.

It speaks of one being who is three distinct Persons

Persons is used for ease of language. God is a Spirit. But yes, one God, 3 Persons.

 

[heartwashed]

Persons is used for ease of language. God is a Spirit. But yes, one God, 3 Persons.

Yes, one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).

I don't believe in modalism.

 

[heartwashed]

I don't believe in modalism.

I am not teaching modalism but the true Trinity.

Try studying the OP.

 

[heartwashed]

Thoughts? Comments?

 

[GaryA]

I think that the Word is not separate in any way from the thought

Error #1

we can substitute that algebraically in John 1:1

Error #2

 

[GaryA]

Obviously, the historical, orthodox, doctrine of the Trinity doesn't purport three separate beings.

It speaks of one being who is three distinct Persons

How do you define 'being' and 'person'? What exactly-and-precisely is the distinction/difference between the two designations?

 

[heartwashed]

How do you define 'being' and 'person'? What exactly-and-precisely is the distinction/difference between the two designations?

We do not have three Gods (three separate beings who are God)...we have one God in three Persons.

 

[heartwashed]

Error #1


Error #2

Your saying that I am in error does not mean that I am truly in error;

For I can say the same thing about you...

That you are in error in saying that I am in error.

For I have not erred in my statements but speak to you the words of truth and soberness.

 

[heartwashed]

If the Word is separate from the thought...

Then "the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost"

and therefore we have three Lords;

Since each one is not the other, they are separate and therefore cannot be said to be one Lord.

But if they are distinct, then they are one Lord and not three Lords.

But if they are separate rather than distinct in your view, then you have a problem with the creeds.

For in the creeds, it is written that "We are forbidden by Catholic doctrine to say that there are three Lords."

 

[heartwashed]

Here is how I define the Trinity.

The Father is a Spirit without flesh inhabiting eternity (John 4:23-24, Isaiah 57:15).

Jhn 4:23, But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Jhn 4:24, God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Isa 57:15, For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.



The Son is the same Spirit come in flesh (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

Jhn 4:24, God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Eph 4:4, There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

1Jo 4:1, Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2, Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3, And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jo 1:7, For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.



The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as He is released from the physical body of the Son at His crucifixion (Luke 23:46).

Luk 23:46, And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.



(For God is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24).)

Eph 4:4, There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Jhn 4:24, God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.




The Holy Ghost being distinct from the Father in that He has lived the human life of Christ and therefore has an experiential understanding of humanity.

The Son being distinct from the Father and the Holy Ghost in that He is come in flesh (while the Father and the Holy Ghost also dwell in the Person of the Son, Colossians 2:9).

Col 2:8, Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9, For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.



I believe that the Son was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35); which does not make it impossible that He is pre-existent.

Luk 1:35, And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.



For He ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10); even to exist outside of time.

Eph 4:10, He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)


For in the Bible codes of Genesis 1 it can be determined that there are ten dimensions in reality. The risen and ascended Son fills all ten. So, He is far above the fourth dimension; which is time. Therefore Jesus exists outside of time.

And because He exists outside of time, His existence extends into eternity past.

Thus, the Father created the worlds through Jesus Christ; since Christ existed in the beginning;

While the beginning of His life (as the Son in flesh) happened at the juncture of Luke 1:35.

Luk 1:35, And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.


Some have tried to define this theology as not being the Trinity by giving it the label of "Coexistent Modalism".

I think that such is a slander on the doctrine.

I developed this doctrine as an emphasis on the Oneness of God in the Trinity, as a response to mormon theology; which has also infiltrated the minds of some who call themselves Trinitarians; that there are three beings who are God;

i.e. that the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost.

I would declare that they are the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4) and therefore, also, in a specific sense, the same Person.

Jhn 4:24, God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Eph 4:4, There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;



While they are also three distinct Persons according to the beginning statements of this post.

 

[Dino246]

If the Word is separate from the thought...

You can't make a biblical argument when you start with non-biblical terminology. "Thought" is not used in reference to God; "Word" is.

Then "the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost"

Which is true.

and therefore we have three Lords;

No, that does not follow.

Since each one is not the other, they are separate and therefore cannot be said to be one Lord.

Again, that does not follow.

But if they are distinct, then they are one Lord and not three Lords.

Um, no. Look up the meanings of "distinct" and "separate". They are neither as distinct nor as separate as you seem to believe.

But if they are separate rather than distinct in your view, then you have a problem with the creeds.

For in the creeds, it is written that "We are forbidden by Catholic doctrine to say that there are three Lords."

Catholic doctrine is irrelevant. While the creeds are useful at times as summaries of core biblical doctrine, they are ultimately subject to Scripture, not in authority over it.

 

[heartwashed]

If the Word is separate from the thought...

Then "the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost"

and therefore we have three Lords;

Since each one is not the other, they are separate and therefore cannot be said to be one Lord.

But if they are distinct, then they are one Lord and not three Lords.

But if they are separate rather than distinct in your view, then you have a problem with the creeds.

For in the creeds, it is written that "We are forbidden by Catholic doctrine to say that there are three Lords."

Get 'im Holy Ghost.

Suffice it to say that I am not going to keep posting this.

But you can be certain that it will be my private prayer every time I am "x'd"

 

[heartwashed]

You can't make a biblical argument when you start with non-biblical terminology. "Thought" is not used in reference to God; "Word" is.

Of course I was going based on the post that was linked to which postulated that God the Father is "Thought" since Jesus is "the Word".

My statement was in the context of that post.

 

[heartwashed]

Which is true.

It is not true

No, that does not follow.


Again, that does not follow.

Both of those things follow logically. Explain how you think they don't.

Um, no. Look up the meanings of "distinct" and "separate". They are neither as distinct nor as separate as you seem to believe.


Catholic doctrine is irrelevant. While the creeds are useful at times as summaries of core biblical doctrine, they are ultimately subject to Scripture, not in authority over it.

Now, all I'm saying is that if you want to say that you are adhering to the historical , orthodox doctrine of the Trinity, you need to adhere to the creeds unless you have specific scripture that contradicts one of their statements.

 

[Dino246]

It is not true



Both of those things follow logically. Explain how you think they don't.


Now, all I'm saying is that if you want to say that you are adhering to the historical , orthodox doctrine of the Trinity, you need to adhere to the creeds unless you have specific scripture that contradicts one of their statements.

I don't "need" to adhere to the creeds at all; I adhere to Scripture.

 

[heartwashed]

I don't "need" to adhere to the creeds at all; I adhere to Scripture.

As do I.