Is faith WITHOUT works dead to GOD or Is faith WITHOUT works dead to man?

[John146]

No works don't prove your justification or salvation, that is a whole other subject. Works prove your faith.

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Again, to whom is the book of James written? See James 1:1.

 

[John146]

Who said I was trusting in my own work? KJV only mentality has led to some strange conclusions.

Well, if you're depending upon your individual faith to justify, then works must accompany to be justified.

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Commentaries get it wrong over and over, trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. They state the verse and then use sly exposition to try and line it up with Paul's writings. This is not honest study.

 

[John146]

Who said I was trusting in my own work? KJV only mentality has led to some strange conclusions.

If you only had a bible to go by, who is the audience? Allowing the bible to define who are the twelve tribes...

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

 

[BearerOfTheMorningStar]

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Again, to whom is the book of James written? See James 1:1.

Well let's try another example from James. When God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, and Abraham did not withhold his only begotten son, but bound him and put him on the altar, and prepared to sacrifice him; did not this work prove that Abraham had faith to God? Yes indeed, God even says he knows that Abraham has faith in him for doing this work and not withholding his only begotten son, and therefore substitutes Isaac with a lamb that he himself provided.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Your last statement confused me but the rest of your post Is outstanding.

This passage should clarify everything: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph 2:8,9)

So every Christian is foreordained to do good works as a part of his or her Christian walk. That is the result of genuine saving faith.

 

[John146]

Well let's try another example from James. When God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, and Abraham did not withhold his only begotten son, but bound him and put him on the altar, and prepared to sacrifice him; did not this work prove that Abraham had faith to God? Yes indeed, God even says he knows that Abraham has faith in him for doing this work and not withholding his only begotten son, and therefore substitutes Isaac with a lamb that he himself provided.

Yes, agreed. So now answer the question: to whom is the book of James written?

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

 

[BearerOfTheMorningStar]

Yes, agreed. So now answer the question: to whom is the book of James written?

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

The letter of James is addressed to the brethren of course as James says repeatedly throughout the letter. Indeed the first copy of the letter physically written by James' own hand begins as you have posted, sent to the Israelites that are scattered abroad.

 

[John146]

This passage should clarify everything: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph 2:8,9)

So every Christian is foreordained to do good works as a part of his or her Christian walk. That is the result of genuine saving faith.

That we should walk in them...don't leave out that part. If a believer does not walk in them, he will be judged at the JSOC and rewards will be taken away.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Romans 14:
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

 

[John146]

The letter of James is addressed to the brethren of course as James says repeatedly throughout the letter. Indeed the first copy of the letter physically written by James' own hand begins as you have posted, sent to the Israelites that are scattered abroad.

James uses the term "brethren" in the same manner Paul does from time to time, referring to his Jewish brethren according to the flesh. The term "twelve tribes" is never a reference to the body of Christ and to use it in this manner violates every other usage in scripture.

 

[mailmandan]

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Again, to whom is the book of James written? See James 1:1.

Are you implying this means justified (accounted as righteous) by works for the twelve tribes of Israel?

 

[BearerOfTheMorningStar]

James uses the term "brethren" in the same manner Paul does from time to time, referring to his Jewish brethren according to the flesh. The term "twelve tribes" is never a reference to the body of Christ and to use it in this manner violates every other usage in scripture.

It is understood that the brethren are all within the body of Christ, as the body of Christ is all those who believe in God. It is understood that James is not writing to unbelieving jews, but rather to believing jews scattered abroad.

 

[mailmandan]

If you only had a bible to go by, who is the audience? Allowing the bible to define who are the twelve tribes...

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Still doesn't change the context.

 

[John146]

Are you implying this means justified (accounted as righteous) by works for the twelve tribes of Israel?

Yes! Israel must endure to the end of the tribulation by faith and works.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

James uses Job as an example of enduring with patience through tribulation.

James 5
7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. (Jewish reference)
8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh. Literally coming soon for the tribulation saints
9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door. Jesus is standing ready to return. During the Church Age, Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father.
10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy. The 42 chapters of Job is a picture of the 42 months of great tribulation for Israel, aka Jacob's trouble.

 

[John146]

Still doesn't change the context.

It only changes to whom the doctrine should be applied.

 

[John146]

It is understood that the brethren are all within the body of Christ, as the body of Christ is all those who believe in God. It is understood that James is not writing to unbelieving jews, but rather to believing jews scattered abroad.

There are those in the audience that have not received the word and their souls had not been saved. Lay apart and receive...

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

 

[BearerOfTheMorningStar]

There are those in the audience that have not received the word and their souls had not been saved. Lay apart and receive...

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

Well right, James' letter, like Paul's letters, are written to regulate the believers and instruct them towards soundness of belief in Jesus Christ.

Speaking on the body, and to return to the topic a bit here; what do you make of this verse?

James 2:26
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[Beckie]

Not all who left Egypt, with Moses, were Hebrew. Nor are all the ancestors of Christ Jewish or Hebrew ,which ever term you choose to use.
Exo 12:37 And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.
Exo 12:38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

 

[John146]

Well right, James' letter, like Paul's letters, are written to regulate the believers and instruct them towards soundness of belief in Jesus Christ.

Speaking on the body, and to return to the topic a bit here; what do you make of this verse?

James 2:26
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Yes, faith without works is dead. Thankfully, the NT believer is justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. His faith and works justifies the believer. All that is required to be made righteous is belief, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. No works is necessary. Should we go on to good works? Of course, but no amount of good works can justify.

 

[John146]

Well right, James' letter, like Paul's letters, are written to regulate the believers and instruct them towards soundness of belief in Jesus Christ.

Speaking on the body, and to return to the topic a bit here; what do you make of this verse?

James 2:26
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Is the following doctrine for the body of Christ?

James 5
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

 

[BearerOfTheMorningStar]

Yes, faith without works is dead. Thankfully, the NT believer is justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. His faith and works justifies the believer. All that is required to be made righteous is belief, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. No works is necessary. Should we go on to good works? Of course, but no amount of good works can justify.

I think you are conflating the topic of how works prove faith versus how salvation is attained, which is by faith in God alone. Indeed you cannot work your way into the Kingdom, you cannot essentially buy yourself into God's grace. However, because anyone can say they believe, it is their works that will prove their faith as in the example of two people that knew God and claimed to beleive in him; Abraham and how his work in offering up Isaac proved his faith in God to both God and man (Isaac), and King Saul and how his work in refusing to the slaughter the Amalekites, taking the spoil, and trying to offer a sacrifice of it proved to both God and man (Samuel) that his faith was dead.