Ordination
- Thread starter GreekEagle343
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Everything that pertains to this world disobeys Christ --God's Kingdom works upside down from this World --the obtaining a master's degree in is a man made invention --no where does Jesus ever tell His disciples that they have to have any kind of a Master"s Degree from this World to be a Minister of His Word ------
The world has made up their own rules and regulations to be a Minister and have added getting degrees to the pot ---that is not from God ---that is from man -----
What Jesus did say Is What is Flesh is Flesh and What is Spirit is Spirit -----the 2 are separate ---
Jesus is the Master Degree of His Word and the Holy Spirit is the Doctrine Degree of Spiritual knowledge --and your fit for what jesus told His Disciples to do -------
Mark 16:15 In-Context15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Colossians 2:8
Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
Mark 7
J.B. Phillips New Testament
Jesus exposes the danger of man-made traditions
7 1-5 And now Jesus was approached by the Pharisees and some of the scribes who had come from Jerusalem. They had noticed that his disciples ate their meals with “common” hands—meaning that they had not gone through a ceremonial washing. (The Pharisees, and indeed all the Jews, will never eat unless they have washed their hands in a particular way, following a traditional rule. And they will not eat anything bought in the market until they have first performed their “sprinkling”. And there are many other things which they consider important, concerned with the washing of cups, jugs and basins.) So the Pharisees and the scribes put this question to Jesus, “Why do your disciples refuse to follow the ancient tradition, and eat their bread with ‘common’ hands?”
6-8 Jesus replied, “You hypocrites, Isaiah described you beautifully when he wrote—‘This people honours me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. And in vain they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men’. You are so busy holding on to the traditions of men that you let go the commandment of God!”
9-13 Then he went on, “It is wonderful to see how you can set aside the commandment of God to preserve your own tradition!
For Moses said, ‘Honour your father and your mother’ and ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death’. But you say, ‘if a man says to his father or his mother, Korban—meaning, I have given God whatever duty I owed to you’, then he need not lift a finger any longer for his father or mother, so making the word of God invalid for the sake of the tradition which you hold. And this is typical of much of what you do.”
What can you do with a divinity degree?
While becoming a pastor, priest or spiritual leader may be some of the first career choices you think of pursuing with a divinity degree, there are several other opportunities you can explore if you choose to enroll in this program. Here are nine jobs you can apply for with a divinity degree:
1. Counselor
National average salary: $30,242 per year
. Author
National average salary: $41,828 per year
3. Pastor
National average salary: $43,110 per year
. Religious education teacher
National average salary: $44,153 per year
Minister associate
National average salary: $47,760 per year
6. Chaplain
National average salary: $48,612 per year
. Professor
National average salary: $54,782 per year
8. Speaker
National average salary: $68,031 per year
. Missionary
National average salary: $78,727 per year
I say -----do you not think that if God wants a person to do anyone of these things that He is very capable of giving them all the degrees he thinks the person needs which would be -----Knowledge and Wisdom and all the tools needed to be successful in doing what He sends the person out to do ----
no human seminary degrees needed ----just Inward Faith --Trust --and Salvation with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ----who is your Spiritual Guide ---
What do you learn in a divinity degree program?
This is my view on this ----you can go an get your degree but without God your degree is FRUITLESS --and there are many Fruitless degrees floating around this planet trying to Preach God Word without any understanding of it ---and all went to Seminary School --and sending people to HELL and not caring about it ----very sad
There is not one piece of Schooling that you can get from A man induced seminary school that God can't give you better by trusting in Him alone ------if your going into Ministry ---
This World has made it impossible for the Regular True Christian to stand in the Pulpit and Preach truth ---they have taken a road of applying their own tradition and put high academic standards in place to enter into their domains -----which is sad in itself -----
The world has made up their own rules and regulations to be a Minister and have added getting degrees to the pot ---that is not from God ---that is from man -----
What Jesus did say Is What is Flesh is Flesh and What is Spirit is Spirit -----the 2 are separate ---
Jesus is the Master Degree of His Word and the Holy Spirit is the Doctrine Degree of Spiritual knowledge --and your fit for what jesus told His Disciples to do -------
Mark 16:15 In-Context15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Colossians 2:8
Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
Mark 7
J.B. Phillips New Testament
Jesus exposes the danger of man-made traditions
7 1-5 And now Jesus was approached by the Pharisees and some of the scribes who had come from Jerusalem. They had noticed that his disciples ate their meals with “common” hands—meaning that they had not gone through a ceremonial washing. (The Pharisees, and indeed all the Jews, will never eat unless they have washed their hands in a particular way, following a traditional rule. And they will not eat anything bought in the market until they have first performed their “sprinkling”. And there are many other things which they consider important, concerned with the washing of cups, jugs and basins.) So the Pharisees and the scribes put this question to Jesus, “Why do your disciples refuse to follow the ancient tradition, and eat their bread with ‘common’ hands?”
6-8 Jesus replied, “You hypocrites, Isaiah described you beautifully when he wrote—‘This people honours me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. And in vain they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men’. You are so busy holding on to the traditions of men that you let go the commandment of God!”
9-13 Then he went on, “It is wonderful to see how you can set aside the commandment of God to preserve your own tradition!
For Moses said, ‘Honour your father and your mother’ and ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death’. But you say, ‘if a man says to his father or his mother, Korban—meaning, I have given God whatever duty I owed to you’, then he need not lift a finger any longer for his father or mother, so making the word of God invalid for the sake of the tradition which you hold. And this is typical of much of what you do.”
What can you do with a divinity degree?
While becoming a pastor, priest or spiritual leader may be some of the first career choices you think of pursuing with a divinity degree, there are several other opportunities you can explore if you choose to enroll in this program. Here are nine jobs you can apply for with a divinity degree:
1. Counselor
National average salary: $30,242 per year
. Author
National average salary: $41,828 per year
3. Pastor
National average salary: $43,110 per year
. Religious education teacher
National average salary: $44,153 per year
Minister associate
National average salary: $47,760 per year
6. Chaplain
National average salary: $48,612 per year
. Professor
National average salary: $54,782 per year
8. Speaker
National average salary: $68,031 per year
. Missionary
National average salary: $78,727 per year
I say -----do you not think that if God wants a person to do anyone of these things that He is very capable of giving them all the degrees he thinks the person needs which would be -----Knowledge and Wisdom and all the tools needed to be successful in doing what He sends the person out to do ----
no human seminary degrees needed ----just Inward Faith --Trust --and Salvation with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ----who is your Spiritual Guide ---
What do you learn in a divinity degree program?
- Critical thinking
- Empathy
- Active listening
- Counseling
- Public speaking
- Research
This is my view on this ----you can go an get your degree but without God your degree is FRUITLESS --and there are many Fruitless degrees floating around this planet trying to Preach God Word without any understanding of it ---and all went to Seminary School --and sending people to HELL and not caring about it ----very sad
There is not one piece of Schooling that you can get from A man induced seminary school that God can't give you better by trusting in Him alone ------if your going into Ministry ---
This World has made it impossible for the Regular True Christian to stand in the Pulpit and Preach truth ---they have taken a road of applying their own tradition and put high academic standards in place to enter into their domains -----which is sad in itself -----
I have watched three young men who God called when they were very young (19 to 25 years old) grow up in their ministries. Until they began their formal education, all struggled to get off the ground. Each of them found out just how important a formal education is to anyone entering the ministry. Today each of them are pastors of very successful churches.
-
3
- Show all
How can anyone come out of a seminary --theology or Divinity school and preach to their church how to have peace that goes beyond all human understanding when they have never mastered having this peace themselves -----which takes maturing in your walk with christ to even begin to experience this Peace ----
Or preach on God's Love Agape when you yourself have not Agape -----and really don't understand it ----you think that Seminary school can give you Agape or the true understanding of it ---so you can really preach on this subject ----
or Preach on God's Faith that is the foundation of understanding How God's Kingdom works- ---when you you yourself really don't get what inward Faith really is or how it works in relation to God's word -----and how it works in the life of the church -----
And here is something else to think about ------you go to a Seminary school to become a minister but your not satisfied with that ---you want to climb the ladder of success by obtaining a degree and then another degree and then another degree because you have been told that the degrees give you a better paying job -----and boost your ego and the egos of the people who are advertising the job your applying for ------
This is how this world works ----your need to climb to the Top of the ladder to be better in your success ---
God's Kingdom works the opposite -----Jesus was King and climbed down the ladder to be an example for us ----so in God's World you have to climb to the bottom of the Ladder to be successful in God's Kingdom --
if your climbing to the top of the ladder for success then your relying on self and what this World dictates to you to be successful ------- God is handcuffed and can't help you -----
If one wants to be a Minister for God ------then one needs to lay down what this World dictates and totally rely on God to provide the right path to Preach His word His way ------
If God really wants a person in a Church building to Preach His Word ----God will provide the way ---and the success will be guaranteed ----- with no degree -----
To many Preachers Preaching to their Church -----about Faith ----about Peace ---about Trust about Grace about Blessings about Curses ---about Happiness ----about joy ---about obeying the Word -----and on and on ----when the Minister himself or herself has not a true understanding of the Spiritual meaning of any of these things ----
And I have posted this before ----but the United Church in Canada has allowed AN ORDAINED MINISTER who is an Atheist to remain in their Church to preach ----She settled her case to remain as a minister in a church that claims they are a Church of God -------She lied when she applied to get into the Ministry ----and said she was a believer -----and then announced her atheistism in church one day when she was preaching ----Gretta Vosper is her name -----the church tried to get her out but to no avail -----the higher authorities said she could stay -----
What does that tell you ------------------------
all Religions are Corrupt as they are man made and man run ----------No all Schooled Seminary Ministers are God Driven ----Satan is very much alive in the Churches today -----
In surprise settlement, United Church agrees Toronto’s atheist minister can keep her job
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/in..._e59f9736-3ecc-57b2-a916-78739941675f.htmlRev.
Gretta Vosper and the church settled ahead of what some had dubbed a “heresy trial,” leaving her free to minister to her east-end Toronto congregation.
Very --Very Sad -----and in one Video CBC did with her ----they ask her if there were other Clergy who were Atheist in Churches ---She said there are quite a few who remain hidden within their Religion ------
So---- Who is getting into Seminary Schools ----and getting supposedly Ordained --- ???????????????
Or preach on God's Love Agape when you yourself have not Agape -----and really don't understand it ----you think that Seminary school can give you Agape or the true understanding of it ---so you can really preach on this subject ----
or Preach on God's Faith that is the foundation of understanding How God's Kingdom works- ---when you you yourself really don't get what inward Faith really is or how it works in relation to God's word -----and how it works in the life of the church -----
And here is something else to think about ------you go to a Seminary school to become a minister but your not satisfied with that ---you want to climb the ladder of success by obtaining a degree and then another degree and then another degree because you have been told that the degrees give you a better paying job -----and boost your ego and the egos of the people who are advertising the job your applying for ------
This is how this world works ----your need to climb to the Top of the ladder to be better in your success ---
God's Kingdom works the opposite -----Jesus was King and climbed down the ladder to be an example for us ----so in God's World you have to climb to the bottom of the Ladder to be successful in God's Kingdom --
if your climbing to the top of the ladder for success then your relying on self and what this World dictates to you to be successful ------- God is handcuffed and can't help you -----
If one wants to be a Minister for God ------then one needs to lay down what this World dictates and totally rely on God to provide the right path to Preach His word His way ------
If God really wants a person in a Church building to Preach His Word ----God will provide the way ---and the success will be guaranteed ----- with no degree -----
To many Preachers Preaching to their Church -----about Faith ----about Peace ---about Trust about Grace about Blessings about Curses ---about Happiness ----about joy ---about obeying the Word -----and on and on ----when the Minister himself or herself has not a true understanding of the Spiritual meaning of any of these things ----
And I have posted this before ----but the United Church in Canada has allowed AN ORDAINED MINISTER who is an Atheist to remain in their Church to preach ----She settled her case to remain as a minister in a church that claims they are a Church of God -------She lied when she applied to get into the Ministry ----and said she was a believer -----and then announced her atheistism in church one day when she was preaching ----Gretta Vosper is her name -----the church tried to get her out but to no avail -----the higher authorities said she could stay -----
What does that tell you ------------------------
all Religions are Corrupt as they are man made and man run ----------No all Schooled Seminary Ministers are God Driven ----Satan is very much alive in the Churches today -----
In surprise settlement, United Church agrees Toronto’s atheist minister can keep her job
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/in..._e59f9736-3ecc-57b2-a916-78739941675f.htmlRev.
Gretta Vosper and the church settled ahead of what some had dubbed a “heresy trial,” leaving her free to minister to her east-end Toronto congregation.
Very --Very Sad -----and in one Video CBC did with her ----they ask her if there were other Clergy who were Atheist in Churches ---She said there are quite a few who remain hidden within their Religion ------
So---- Who is getting into Seminary Schools ----and getting supposedly Ordained --- ???????????????
@studentoftheword
Please allow me a moment to explain where I'm coming from.
I read through your responses, and it may be that you've experienced a significant amount of abuse as it relates to Seminaries, graduate students, and the ordination process. If you have, you're certainly not alone.
I gave myself to Christ when I was 7 years of age, and ever since have sought His will for my life. The desire of my heart is to serve Christ as a minister of the gospel. I see myself as a doulos of Christ, nothing more.
You're certainly right to point out that Scripture never explicitly commands anyone to get a master of divinity degree, and that being a minister of God's kingdom is to be a role of servanthood and humility.
Ordination, in the practical sense, involves licensure to administer weddings/marriages and funerals on behalf of the organized church in terms of polity, and legally in the eyes of the state. It really isn't about titles, or money, or any of that.
When I attended Seminary, I started with a cohort of 59 fellow students. There were many who entered into the program for the wrong reasons, and I assure you that none of them made it very far. There were 12 of us who, by the grace of God, graduated. The entire program is divided into 3 centers of study: 1) Biblical literacy, 2) spiritual growth and maturity, and 3) transformational leadership.
I assure you that Seminary is not a dead, academic journey. Anyone who approaches it that way is abusing the system, and shouldn't be a Seminary student. The very meaning of the term seminary comes from Latin "seminarium" meaning "seed plot." It is borrowing from the language of the seeds and soil in the parable of Jesus in Matthew 13. The whole point of seminary is to "break the ground" of the human heart. It is a worshipful act of maturing spiritually by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit where the Word of God is planted and takes root deep into the heart of every student, so that their preparation to love and serve others in ministry is not a mere religious exercise, but is an act of worship within the human heart.
Above all, my calling in Christ is to love God and love my neighbor as myself.
If my calling, by the grace of God, entails ministering to others as a Pastor, then perhaps the licensure and approval of the church to examine me and my character to discern my calling and fitness for the ministry may be appropriate. Maybe I'm called, maybe I'm not. The ordination process is aimed at allowing other mature ministers to examine me for discerning this very question, "Am I called to be a minister of the gospel, or not?"
On a more personal level, being a Seminary student is an enormous sacrifice of time away from family, blood, sweat, and tears, to train in a "spiritual boot camp" to prepare aspiring ministers into mature believers, filled with the Spirit of God, who love believers and love God and His Word.
I can't even begin to tell you how much your words have torn me down and hurt me deeply. Please be careful when you place judgment on people who have sacrificed for years out of a desire to serve Christ and the church. Obtaining a formal education is not a sin.
Please hear that I am humbly pleading with you as a brother in Christ not to assume that those who attend Seminary have ulterior motives. The examples of abuse you mentioned are real, but that's not the whole picture. Please, I plead with you to take in the words of this verse, "29 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you."
I cannot say it strongly enough, please stop tearing people down with you words. Regards ~GreekEagle343
Please allow me a moment to explain where I'm coming from.
I read through your responses, and it may be that you've experienced a significant amount of abuse as it relates to Seminaries, graduate students, and the ordination process. If you have, you're certainly not alone.
I gave myself to Christ when I was 7 years of age, and ever since have sought His will for my life. The desire of my heart is to serve Christ as a minister of the gospel. I see myself as a doulos of Christ, nothing more.
You're certainly right to point out that Scripture never explicitly commands anyone to get a master of divinity degree, and that being a minister of God's kingdom is to be a role of servanthood and humility.
Ordination, in the practical sense, involves licensure to administer weddings/marriages and funerals on behalf of the organized church in terms of polity, and legally in the eyes of the state. It really isn't about titles, or money, or any of that.
When I attended Seminary, I started with a cohort of 59 fellow students. There were many who entered into the program for the wrong reasons, and I assure you that none of them made it very far. There were 12 of us who, by the grace of God, graduated. The entire program is divided into 3 centers of study: 1) Biblical literacy, 2) spiritual growth and maturity, and 3) transformational leadership.
I assure you that Seminary is not a dead, academic journey. Anyone who approaches it that way is abusing the system, and shouldn't be a Seminary student. The very meaning of the term seminary comes from Latin "seminarium" meaning "seed plot." It is borrowing from the language of the seeds and soil in the parable of Jesus in Matthew 13. The whole point of seminary is to "break the ground" of the human heart. It is a worshipful act of maturing spiritually by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit where the Word of God is planted and takes root deep into the heart of every student, so that their preparation to love and serve others in ministry is not a mere religious exercise, but is an act of worship within the human heart.
Above all, my calling in Christ is to love God and love my neighbor as myself.
If my calling, by the grace of God, entails ministering to others as a Pastor, then perhaps the licensure and approval of the church to examine me and my character to discern my calling and fitness for the ministry may be appropriate. Maybe I'm called, maybe I'm not. The ordination process is aimed at allowing other mature ministers to examine me for discerning this very question, "Am I called to be a minister of the gospel, or not?"
On a more personal level, being a Seminary student is an enormous sacrifice of time away from family, blood, sweat, and tears, to train in a "spiritual boot camp" to prepare aspiring ministers into mature believers, filled with the Spirit of God, who love believers and love God and His Word.
I can't even begin to tell you how much your words have torn me down and hurt me deeply. Please be careful when you place judgment on people who have sacrificed for years out of a desire to serve Christ and the church. Obtaining a formal education is not a sin.
Please hear that I am humbly pleading with you as a brother in Christ not to assume that those who attend Seminary have ulterior motives. The examples of abuse you mentioned are real, but that's not the whole picture. Please, I plead with you to take in the words of this verse, "29 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you."
I cannot say it strongly enough, please stop tearing people down with you words. Regards ~GreekEagle343
-
3
-
1
- Show all
Thank you for this response. I believe that you have answered my questions honestly. If I were on your ordination committee, I would be honored to support your ordination. In the case of my church at this point, if everyone agreed that you have answered all our questions, we would ask you to take the next few weeks to pray, while we prepare to present you to the congregation. If you church works as ours, be prepared to answer some (for lack of a better term) unusual and sometimes of the wall questions.
I have no doubt that you will handle yourself well.
I have no doubt that you will handle yourself well.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Your words are the generalities of ignorance. You obviously know very few (if any) seminary students. Further, I am confident that you have never assessed the entrance requirements to any seminary, let alone every, which would be appropriate for the superlative knowledge you have supposedly gained.
Your theology is also wacky. Either you have the indwelling Holy Spirit or you aren't a Christian.
Your theology is also wacky. Either you have the indwelling Holy Spirit or you aren't a Christian.
-
2
- Show all
That is exactly right ---in the eyes of the State -and organized Church --not God ------the World has created all these rules ---not God -----and that is my point -----
Your Statement here ------Maybe I'm called, maybe I'm not -----
I say----- If your saved ---and God has called you into His Ministry ---then you will know it ---they will be no ----maybe I'm not ----you will have a definite conviction in your heart ---When you have confidence in a thing you will speak it out conviction -----
This your statement here -----
The ordination process is aimed at allowing other mature ministers to examine me for discerning this very question, "Am I called to be a minister of the gospel, or not?
I ask you ---How do you know they are mature ministers --
and what is a Mature Minister ------what do you mean by a Mature Minister ----please explain
your statement here ----
to examine me for discerning this very question, "Am I called to be a minister of the gospel, or not?
Well lets hope they have the Discerning Gift to be able to answer your Question ----
Your Statement here ------Maybe I'm called, maybe I'm not -----
I say----- If your saved ---and God has called you into His Ministry ---then you will know it ---they will be no ----maybe I'm not ----you will have a definite conviction in your heart ---When you have confidence in a thing you will speak it out conviction -----
This your statement here -----
The ordination process is aimed at allowing other mature ministers to examine me for discerning this very question, "Am I called to be a minister of the gospel, or not?
I ask you ---How do you know they are mature ministers --
and what is a Mature Minister ------what do you mean by a Mature Minister ----please explain
your statement here ----
to examine me for discerning this very question, "Am I called to be a minister of the gospel, or not?
Well lets hope they have the Discerning Gift to be able to answer your Question ----
@studentoftheword
Please don't misunderstand. I'm very confident that I am 1) in Christ 2) am called to be a doulos of Christ and to follow Him forever, and 3) to service faithfully in the church. In the broad spiritual sense you seem to be describing I am very confident that I am in Christ and called according to His purpose.
As to whether or not I am fit to serve Christ and the church in the role of an ordained minister - that is for God to decide and for others to discern.
It is also not my place to judge the spiritual maturity of the ministers who may be chosen to serve on a ordination advisory board. In the polity of all churches this is determined by others, not by the candidate.
Since you are of the conviction that ordination, and seemingly formal Christian education, are of the world and not of God, then I would advise you that you are not (with all due respect) in the target audience of my question in this thread. We can discuss the extrabiblical nature of church polity, ordination, and academic degrees elsewhere, but the aim of this particular thread is aimed at asking people currently serving as ministers what they look for in someone they discern to be fit for formal ordination into the gospel ministry.
This goes for anyone as well: please be respectful of the fact that this thread is aimed at those who do believe in formal ministry, polity, and Christian education. If your purpose is to oppose these things, please take that discussion to a separate thread.
Please don't misunderstand. I'm very confident that I am 1) in Christ 2) am called to be a doulos of Christ and to follow Him forever, and 3) to service faithfully in the church. In the broad spiritual sense you seem to be describing I am very confident that I am in Christ and called according to His purpose.
As to whether or not I am fit to serve Christ and the church in the role of an ordained minister - that is for God to decide and for others to discern.
It is also not my place to judge the spiritual maturity of the ministers who may be chosen to serve on a ordination advisory board. In the polity of all churches this is determined by others, not by the candidate.
Since you are of the conviction that ordination, and seemingly formal Christian education, are of the world and not of God, then I would advise you that you are not (with all due respect) in the target audience of my question in this thread. We can discuss the extrabiblical nature of church polity, ordination, and academic degrees elsewhere, but the aim of this particular thread is aimed at asking people currently serving as ministers what they look for in someone they discern to be fit for formal ordination into the gospel ministry.
This goes for anyone as well: please be respectful of the fact that this thread is aimed at those who do believe in formal ministry, polity, and Christian education. If your purpose is to oppose these things, please take that discussion to a separate thread.
-
2
- Show all
A little bit late here. I’m a seminary graduate, too! I just went because God told me to. -twice. I didn’t obey God the first time, and a lot of bad things happened to me. I didn’t go, because I thought I heard God wrong, because a woman can’t become a preacher. Little did I realize there were many purposes for getting a seminary degree. An MDiv, specifically. One is to be able to correctly read the bible, esp. using the original languages. Another was to get tools for ministry. It’s kind of ironical, that within a few years of starting to attend a very conservative seminary, God moved me into leadership roles. But, had God not supplied me with the tools, in seminary, I could not have done that work. I have always run various Internet forums. Currently, I run a group of 4200 people with Rheumatoid Arthritis. It’s a disease I also have.
You may wonder what it has to do with serving Christ, but it is pre-evangelism. And many times evangelism. It is also to comfort, encourage and help the sick; and the poor, as many people who get sick lose their jobs, and become poor. People trust me in my leadership role, especially my admin/mod team. They know I will do the right thing to protect people, and help them through what is a very dark valley, getting a painful and debilitating disease. In other words I am ethical and that comes out of my faith in Christ. It is a mission field for me. I have many people who are friends, from a variety of world religions, and they get a lot of bible verses, and stories about how Christ has helped me. Not everyone gets saved, but as long as everyone hears the gospel clearly, I hope I am obedient to God.
As far as ordination, I think it really depends upon your denomination. I am currently working on a PhD in Disability Theology. Not sure if I will finish, because my physical limitations are increasing. But, one of my goals is to write a book outlining how to reach people with the gospel for Christ, through various disabilities and issues on the internet. I don’t have cancer, for example, but someone who has might become very effective, even during chemo and all the invasive procedures cancer patients go through, with some direction as to how to not just model being a Christian, but how to effectively be a missionary. To that end, I pursued ordination through the denomination of the church I currently attend, a small Baptist denomination. But, their rule is that you must be employed by the denomination and doing ministry to be ordained. I filled out all the papers, but my health would never allow me to become even a part time pastor within the denomination. At one point, when I was healthier, I was hoping to become a chaplain. But, according to my denomination, they would not ordain me if I was in Lutheran long term care, for example.
Other denominations have different rules. Some denominations ordain you once, and it stays with you forever. I heard of strange cases in the Church of the Nazarene, which would ordain couples. If the wife died, for example, the husband would lose his ordination, even if he was still pastoring the same church. Then, the denomination would remove him from that church. It seems like a really odd process. Your beloved spouse that you have ministered with for many years dies, and you not only lose your spouse, but your church and your ordination.
In quite a few denominations, a person is ordained, and then keeps that ordination till they die. It sounds like that is what you are looking for? The strange thing about my Baptist denomination, is that the pastor who was there when we originally started attending was ordained in the second year. His father, also a Baptist preacher, came from England to participate in his ordination. It was quite a big deal. Then, the pastor resigned because of severe depression. He was a fantastic preacher, but could not handle the administrative side of the church, even with a whole team of elders supporting him. And they really supported him. He tried to get on staff in another church with the same denomination, but they needed a children’s pastor, not a preaching pastor. So he did not get on staff, and works a secular IT job. But I know for a fact, he has never had his ordination revoked. Not that it should be! But, I read the bylaws of the denomination, and it should have been revoked. I disagree with that. Although I can see why some people might feel that someone not employed by the denomination is no longer answerable to that denomination, and therefore should not be able to carry on as an ordained pastor. Plus, I remember they had a bunch of levels of ordination, which also seemed a bit weird to me. A part time pastor is less ordained than a full one. Our current assistant pastor is in the process of getting ordained. But, she will be a less ordained person than the senior pastor. This is not about men versus women. If she was a man, it would be the same. In fact, the senior pastor has become a complete heretic, (an open theologist) whereas the woman assistant has very orthodox theology, and preaches better than the pastor. But, even if she was a man, she would be considered less. And he was also ordained, quit and worked a secular job for a few years, then came back. But his was a crisis of faith. His faith is not orthodox, although when he was ordained, it was. So, should someone who does not hold to the basic theology of the denomination be allowed to continue as senior pastor, and stay ordained and sanctioned? A difficult question. I have no patience with heresy, and this is major - he does not believe in the sovereignty of God. He thinks we chart our own course, and God has very little to do with our lives.
But enough of my complaints and puzzlement. In seminary, the women students often discussed ordination, which was forbidden in our denomination. Except, ordination was church based in that denomination, and there were quite a few women who had been ordained, although the leadership liked to pretend it was not happening. (I don’t really care what anyone thinks about women in the pulpit, that’s a different thread! Or check some of the old ones, it’s been discussed to death in this forum!) Anyway, one of the women had a very interesting take on ordination. She was actually part of the staff on a large church within the denomination. She had a counselling degree, and was certified as professional counsellor by some kind of gov’t standard. So, she was on staff, being paid, and she did preach from time to time. But, she did not want to be ordained. She did a position paper for theology class that no one should be ordained. I never read the paper, but she did a lot of research into the whole issue. And her church would have ordained her. But, she did not become ordained, and she was one of the most irenic, God -loving people I have ever met.
Anyway, I think you are asking the wrong people. You need to talk to your senior leaders and denomination about ordination, not us. I can give you examples about this all day long. But if you are not in the denomination I attend, it means nothing to you. Let us know what you decide to do. And do stay in ministry. God has obviously called you to vocational ministry, (meaning, you sound like you have an heart for God!) and I hope you get the support you need!
You may wonder what it has to do with serving Christ, but it is pre-evangelism. And many times evangelism. It is also to comfort, encourage and help the sick; and the poor, as many people who get sick lose their jobs, and become poor. People trust me in my leadership role, especially my admin/mod team. They know I will do the right thing to protect people, and help them through what is a very dark valley, getting a painful and debilitating disease. In other words I am ethical and that comes out of my faith in Christ. It is a mission field for me. I have many people who are friends, from a variety of world religions, and they get a lot of bible verses, and stories about how Christ has helped me. Not everyone gets saved, but as long as everyone hears the gospel clearly, I hope I am obedient to God.
As far as ordination, I think it really depends upon your denomination. I am currently working on a PhD in Disability Theology. Not sure if I will finish, because my physical limitations are increasing. But, one of my goals is to write a book outlining how to reach people with the gospel for Christ, through various disabilities and issues on the internet. I don’t have cancer, for example, but someone who has might become very effective, even during chemo and all the invasive procedures cancer patients go through, with some direction as to how to not just model being a Christian, but how to effectively be a missionary. To that end, I pursued ordination through the denomination of the church I currently attend, a small Baptist denomination. But, their rule is that you must be employed by the denomination and doing ministry to be ordained. I filled out all the papers, but my health would never allow me to become even a part time pastor within the denomination. At one point, when I was healthier, I was hoping to become a chaplain. But, according to my denomination, they would not ordain me if I was in Lutheran long term care, for example.
Other denominations have different rules. Some denominations ordain you once, and it stays with you forever. I heard of strange cases in the Church of the Nazarene, which would ordain couples. If the wife died, for example, the husband would lose his ordination, even if he was still pastoring the same church. Then, the denomination would remove him from that church. It seems like a really odd process. Your beloved spouse that you have ministered with for many years dies, and you not only lose your spouse, but your church and your ordination.
In quite a few denominations, a person is ordained, and then keeps that ordination till they die. It sounds like that is what you are looking for? The strange thing about my Baptist denomination, is that the pastor who was there when we originally started attending was ordained in the second year. His father, also a Baptist preacher, came from England to participate in his ordination. It was quite a big deal. Then, the pastor resigned because of severe depression. He was a fantastic preacher, but could not handle the administrative side of the church, even with a whole team of elders supporting him. And they really supported him. He tried to get on staff in another church with the same denomination, but they needed a children’s pastor, not a preaching pastor. So he did not get on staff, and works a secular IT job. But I know for a fact, he has never had his ordination revoked. Not that it should be! But, I read the bylaws of the denomination, and it should have been revoked. I disagree with that. Although I can see why some people might feel that someone not employed by the denomination is no longer answerable to that denomination, and therefore should not be able to carry on as an ordained pastor. Plus, I remember they had a bunch of levels of ordination, which also seemed a bit weird to me. A part time pastor is less ordained than a full one. Our current assistant pastor is in the process of getting ordained. But, she will be a less ordained person than the senior pastor. This is not about men versus women. If she was a man, it would be the same. In fact, the senior pastor has become a complete heretic, (an open theologist) whereas the woman assistant has very orthodox theology, and preaches better than the pastor. But, even if she was a man, she would be considered less. And he was also ordained, quit and worked a secular job for a few years, then came back. But his was a crisis of faith. His faith is not orthodox, although when he was ordained, it was. So, should someone who does not hold to the basic theology of the denomination be allowed to continue as senior pastor, and stay ordained and sanctioned? A difficult question. I have no patience with heresy, and this is major - he does not believe in the sovereignty of God. He thinks we chart our own course, and God has very little to do with our lives.
But enough of my complaints and puzzlement. In seminary, the women students often discussed ordination, which was forbidden in our denomination. Except, ordination was church based in that denomination, and there were quite a few women who had been ordained, although the leadership liked to pretend it was not happening. (I don’t really care what anyone thinks about women in the pulpit, that’s a different thread! Or check some of the old ones, it’s been discussed to death in this forum!) Anyway, one of the women had a very interesting take on ordination. She was actually part of the staff on a large church within the denomination. She had a counselling degree, and was certified as professional counsellor by some kind of gov’t standard. So, she was on staff, being paid, and she did preach from time to time. But, she did not want to be ordained. She did a position paper for theology class that no one should be ordained. I never read the paper, but she did a lot of research into the whole issue. And her church would have ordained her. But, she did not become ordained, and she was one of the most irenic, God -loving people I have ever met.
Anyway, I think you are asking the wrong people. You need to talk to your senior leaders and denomination about ordination, not us. I can give you examples about this all day long. But if you are not in the denomination I attend, it means nothing to you. Let us know what you decide to do. And do stay in ministry. God has obviously called you to vocational ministry, (meaning, you sound like you have an heart for God!) and I hope you get the support you need!
-
1
- Show all
I am curious as to how you knew that at age 7 you were saved ----this is a very young age to really be able to grasp the Gospel and believe in the Gospel ----your the first person I know to be saved at such a young age -----
Did you have a spiritual experience with your conversion ?---
How did you come to the conclusion that you were Born Again of the Spirit at that age ?-----
I thank you in advance for your reply -----
Did you have a spiritual experience with your conversion ?---
How did you come to the conclusion that you were Born Again of the Spirit at that age ?-----
I thank you in advance for your reply -----
I am curious as to how you knew that at age 7 you were saved ----this is a very young age to really be able to grasp the Gospel and believe in the Gospel ----your the first person I know to be saved at such a young age -----
Did you have a spiritual experience with your conversion ?---
How did you come to the conclusion that you were Born Again of the Spirit at that age ?-----
I thank you in advance for your reply -----
Did you have a spiritual experience with your conversion ?---
How did you come to the conclusion that you were Born Again of the Spirit at that age ?-----
I thank you in advance for your reply -----
Sorry it has taken me so long to respond, there is a lot going on with my family at present and I've been off of Christian Chat for quite a while.
When I was seven years old I heard my paternal grandfather explain the gospel to us as his family. Later that evening as the choir sang the old song "there's room at the cross for you" I was deeply convicted in my heart of hearts that I am a sinner in need of Jesus Christ to be my savior and Lord.
I knelt by my bedside on Sunday afternoon and repented of my sins and asked God to forgive me and for Jesus to save me. I felt the peace of Christ in my spirit and He told me to go and tell my parents. I went into the kitchen and told my mother that I had made the decision to follow Christ. At the time, I worded it as "I asked Jesus into my heart, He said I should come tell you." (He did, in my spirit I was strongly convicted on this that I was not allowed to play with my toy trucks until I told my mother that I had received Jesus.) There's much more but I'll leave it at that for the present.