The Wrecklessness of Believing that Satan is Already Bound
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concerning satan BOUND:
here's THE ONLY THING we are told satan is RELEASED TO DO (nullifying any questions about long lists about other things):
the ONLY place the thousand years is mentioned, the big controversy. what do we know from the single short chapter Rev 20?
he is bound.
there's a period called a thousand years.
he is released to:
Revelation 20:8
and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.
that's it.
that's the whole story.
this means only one thing: for that period of time called a thousand years satan is not permitted to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle
that's all there is on his being bound for a thousand years.
there simply no possible way to move beyond understanding this chapter until we agree that there is one thing only mentioned with the binding of satan in Chapter 20.
there's a BATTLE.
it's at the end of the age.
God and Magog are mentioned.
this happens ONE TIME.
this either happens at the end of THIS AGE, before the Second Advent, or it happens at the end of a literal 1,000 years period AFTER the Second Advent.
there are only two choices.
~
question:
if there is a literal period of 1,000 years on this earth AFTER The Second Advent, isn't the precise minute of the last battle (Rev 20) and the entire reason for satan being bound NULL AND VOID, since if we know exactly how many years from the moment Jesus returns until the time satan is supposedly released after the literal 1,000, there's hardly any DECEPTION involved is there?
so, before proceeding, is it possible to ONLY deal with Rev 20 and what it actually says, for now?
thanks (Redstser
)
maybe we'll get to the bottom of the bottomless pit....HEY!
bottomless? satan must be floating up banging his head on the locked and chained lid because it's bottomless...if he stopped flying for any time he'd fall into eternal nothingness wouldn't he?
oh...maybe it's FIGURATIVE.
here's THE ONLY THING we are told satan is RELEASED TO DO (nullifying any questions about long lists about other things):
the ONLY place the thousand years is mentioned, the big controversy. what do we know from the single short chapter Rev 20?
he is bound.
there's a period called a thousand years.
he is released to:
Revelation 20:8
and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.
that's it.
that's the whole story.
this means only one thing: for that period of time called a thousand years satan is not permitted to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle
that's all there is on his being bound for a thousand years.
there simply no possible way to move beyond understanding this chapter until we agree that there is one thing only mentioned with the binding of satan in Chapter 20.
there's a BATTLE.
it's at the end of the age.
God and Magog are mentioned.
this happens ONE TIME.
this either happens at the end of THIS AGE, before the Second Advent, or it happens at the end of a literal 1,000 years period AFTER the Second Advent.
there are only two choices.
~
question:
if there is a literal period of 1,000 years on this earth AFTER The Second Advent, isn't the precise minute of the last battle (Rev 20) and the entire reason for satan being bound NULL AND VOID, since if we know exactly how many years from the moment Jesus returns until the time satan is supposedly released after the literal 1,000, there's hardly any DECEPTION involved is there?
so, before proceeding, is it possible to ONLY deal with Rev 20 and what it actually says, for now?
thanks (Redstser
)maybe we'll get to the bottom of the bottomless pit....HEY!
bottomless? satan must be floating up banging his head on the locked and chained lid because it's bottomless...if he stopped flying for any time he'd fall into eternal nothingness wouldn't he?
oh...maybe it's FIGURATIVE.
We are VERY close but its not happening yet. Think overt global communist dictatorship rounding up Christians and slaughtering them. Thats when the battle is and thats when the nations are deceived.
Believe it folks you WILL KNOW when satan is loosed for his little season, its gonna be hell on earth. Sorry, but that aint happening yet.
The whole theory that Satan is bound presently, starting from the time of the cross that you ave ascribed to to the secon advent, is shattered by the truth revealed just in (Rev 20:1-3) alone.
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
You have put this passage of scripture in the setting and time frame of the church age beginning at the cross until the second coming of Christ when you believe he will be loosed again. You restrict him during this time frame from ONLY being able to deceive the nations, when this passage clearly confines Satan completely from any of his abilities by locking him up in the bottomless pit with a great chain, and shutting him up (and I like to think that his mouth was also shut up) and put a seal upon him for 1,000 yrs. But of course you have to make all this figurative so that it fits into your understanding and what you like to believe. You even know in your heart that when you do that it becomes all screwed up, but because of pride and a callous heart and your spite for Schofield and others, who you accuse of having tricked people into believing in dispensational truth, you adhere to this screwed up stuff and will probably take it to the grave with you.
It is extremely important that we have the right understanding about the church and what God has purposed for the church in this present evil world. You folks have to come up with some explanation to justify that Satan has been active during the church age because of all the sriptures that testify to the truth of it. So you some how restrict the binding of Satan and his abilites to only decieving the nations but not his ability to decieve the church and its members. Some how you convey this understanding that Satan is bound from deceiving the nations but not from deceiving the church or opposing and hindering it from preaching the gospel to every creature. I have mentioned all the passages that we have been provided in scripture on this to Zone (I'm sure she has it on file).
If you want to make the reference to 1,000 yrs and the bottomless pit in (Rev 20:1-3) figurative, then you have to make all the nouns and all the verbs likewise. How came you make some of the nouns figurative and not all the nouns and how can you restict the action of some of the verbs and not all the verbs in that passage. Can't you see how reckless and deceitful it is to handle the word of God in this manner?
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
You have put this passage of scripture in the setting and time frame of the church age beginning at the cross until the second coming of Christ when you believe he will be loosed again. You restrict him during this time frame from ONLY being able to deceive the nations, when this passage clearly confines Satan completely from any of his abilities by locking him up in the bottomless pit with a great chain, and shutting him up (and I like to think that his mouth was also shut up) and put a seal upon him for 1,000 yrs. But of course you have to make all this figurative so that it fits into your understanding and what you like to believe. You even know in your heart that when you do that it becomes all screwed up, but because of pride and a callous heart and your spite for Schofield and others, who you accuse of having tricked people into believing in dispensational truth, you adhere to this screwed up stuff and will probably take it to the grave with you.
It is extremely important that we have the right understanding about the church and what God has purposed for the church in this present evil world. You folks have to come up with some explanation to justify that Satan has been active during the church age because of all the sriptures that testify to the truth of it. So you some how restrict the binding of Satan and his abilites to only decieving the nations but not his ability to decieve the church and its members. Some how you convey this understanding that Satan is bound from deceiving the nations but not from deceiving the church or opposing and hindering it from preaching the gospel to every creature. I have mentioned all the passages that we have been provided in scripture on this to Zone (I'm sure she has it on file).
If you want to make the reference to 1,000 yrs and the bottomless pit in (Rev 20:1-3) figurative, then you have to make all the nouns and all the verbs likewise. How came you make some of the nouns figurative and not all the nouns and how can you restict the action of some of the verbs and not all the verbs in that passage. Can't you see how reckless and deceitful it is to handle the word of God in this manner?
YOU are the one saying satan is restricted from doing this. Scripture does NOT say anything about ALL HIS ABILITIES being restricted.
It just uses extremely metaphorical language to depict him being bound. And HE IS. The very fact that the Gospel can save folks in the Church age PROVES THIS.
If satan wasnt bound then the Gospel would have no effect on people and Christians wouldn't be able to be a light to the nations.
Because thats what SCRIPTURE SAYS Redster!
It just uses extremely metaphorical language to depict him being bound. And HE IS. The very fact that the Gospel can save folks in the Church age PROVES THIS.
If satan wasnt bound then the Gospel would have no effect on people and Christians wouldn't be able to be a light to the nations.
Because thats what SCRIPTURE SAYS Redster!
L
So a bottomless pit is LITERAL?
So its something like a vertical tunnel then?
Everything in Rev is LITERAL is it? Huge multiheaded monster gonna come out of the sea ya?
Is this what you are expecting to see?
So its something like a vertical tunnel then?
Everything in Rev is LITERAL is it? Huge multiheaded monster gonna come out of the sea ya?
Is this what you are expecting to see?
Genesis 1:2
(2) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
In Genesis we have the bottomless pit or deep, the earth at the return of Jesus goes back to its original form. The bottomless pit is a place of emptiness.
Jeremiah 4:23-26
(23) I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
(24) I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
(25) I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
(26) I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
L
Jesus warns us in Matthew 24 that we can be deceived, Satan deceived one third of the angels in heaven and has been deceiving ever since.
Matthew 24:4-5
(4) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. (1st sign)
(5) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:11
(11) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:24
(24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Notice that the words it were are in italics in the KJV meaning they are not in the original but were added by the translators so read it without those words.
1 Peter 5:8
(8) Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
That verse does not sound like he is bound now
Matthew 24:4-5
(4) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. (1st sign)
(5) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:11
(11) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:24
(24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Notice that the words it were are in italics in the KJV meaning they are not in the original but were added by the translators so read it without those words.
1 Peter 5:8
(8) Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
That verse does not sound like he is bound now
again, its you who has not understood the ONE thing we are told about the restraining.
it is you who has projected on to that text what you THINK it means, what you EXPECT satan to be doing or not doing.
when you have the passage itself telling you what it says.
so, i'm just not discussing this with you any more since you can not even agree that we look ONLY at what the text actually SAYS. YOU'VE INFERRED FROM THE IMAGERY far too many things about the time frame, the actual binding, the resultant action/inaction concerning certain things etc.
this is laziness. plain and simple. and its evidence that you haven't bothered researching at all the work of ANY reputable scholars on amillennialism (because its easier to accuse me of whatever you like)...but if you find yourself face to face with seasoned men of God throughout the ages who have read this Book as amillennialist...then what?
i suggest that you look to men like Dr. Kim Riddlebarger who came out of dispensational theology.
send him an email making these sloppy allegations of a prideful and callous heart and see what you get in return for your own lack of scholarship.
though if you were a little more respectful he would certainly reply accordingly (i know he does answer emails).
here's his contact info:
Riddleblog - Contact Me
don't ask me any more questions about the Church's Historical Amillennial view.
your post is insulting and condescending and quite embarrassing for you, since Amillennialism is the only true eschatological position possible.
it is you who has projected on to that text what you THINK it means, what you EXPECT satan to be doing or not doing.
when you have the passage itself telling you what it says.
so, i'm just not discussing this with you any more since you can not even agree that we look ONLY at what the text actually SAYS. YOU'VE INFERRED FROM THE IMAGERY far too many things about the time frame, the actual binding, the resultant action/inaction concerning certain things etc.
this is laziness. plain and simple. and its evidence that you haven't bothered researching at all the work of ANY reputable scholars on amillennialism (because its easier to accuse me of whatever you like)...but if you find yourself face to face with seasoned men of God throughout the ages who have read this Book as amillennialist...then what?
i suggest that you look to men like Dr. Kim Riddlebarger who came out of dispensational theology.
send him an email making these sloppy allegations of a prideful and callous heart and see what you get in return for your own lack of scholarship.
though if you were a little more respectful he would certainly reply accordingly (i know he does answer emails).
here's his contact info:
Riddleblog - Contact Me
don't ask me any more questions about the Church's Historical Amillennial view.
your post is insulting and condescending and quite embarrassing for you, since Amillennialism is the only true eschatological position possible.
why can't you guys just stick to what the text SAYS?
to deceive the nations to gather them to battle.
this is the great endtime event. of course he's restrained from doing that until the end!
i notice no one ever addresses how the binding will have any different result duing "the millennium".
explain how it works, someone please?
to deceive the nations to gather them to battle.
this is the great endtime event. of course he's restrained from doing that until the end!
i notice no one ever addresses how the binding will have any different result duing "the millennium".
explain how it works, someone please?
L
At the end of the 1000 years God will destroy the wicked
Revelation 20:9
(9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Before He does this God must be seen as just and true throughout the universe
Revelation 15:3
(3) And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
Everyone shall bow down to God even the wicked
Isaiah 45:23
(23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Even after Satan has been in the bottomless pit (deep) for 1000 years he is still the same he does not change. Sin shall be destroyed and shall not rise a 2nd time.
Nahum 1:9
(9) What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.
Bottomless pit is also translated deep
Genesis 1:2
(2) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
In Genesis we have the bottomless pit or deep, the earth at the return of Jesus goes back to its original form. The bottomless pit is a place of emptiness.
Jeremiah 4:23-26
(23) I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
(24) I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
(25) I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
(26) I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
The passage being considered is (Rev 20:1-3)...
Even if the term bottomless pit was a metaphor as you suggest, what would be the similarity that this figure of speech is suggesting? Once you figure that out, if you can, that would lend to all kinds of speculation and various application that would promote an unsubstantiated understanding of a passage of scripture that would make it loose its objective truth as it relates to future events and the prophecy of this book.
If you want to bother and take the time, go through the book of Revelation and make a list of any and all things that have been mentioned in this book that have been fulfilled. The remainder would obviously be unfulfilled. Remember that you can't add anything or take away anything from the prophecy of this book. You will have to consider three body politics, the church, the Jews and nation of Israel and the children of disobedience that are in the world. You have scenes in heaven and on the earth, you have battles and judgments and messages that are to be given. You have the two witnesses and prophets that are sent from heaven to the earth with great power. You have the seven seals, trumpets, vials and the three 'woes' that will be executed upon the earth. You have the mystery and city of Babylon being rebuilt. You have the Dragon, the Beast and the False Prophet to deal with, that according to you will have nothing to do with deceiving the nations.
All of these thing are to come to past before the Second Advent or the Second Coming of Christ. Furthermore I would like you to explain the two battles that will take place. The battle of Armageddon within (Rev 16:14 - 19:21) and the one mentioned in (Rev 20:8,9).
Even if the term bottomless pit was a metaphor as you suggest, what would be the similarity that this figure of speech is suggesting? Once you figure that out, if you can, that would lend to all kinds of speculation and various application that would promote an unsubstantiated understanding of a passage of scripture that would make it loose its objective truth as it relates to future events and the prophecy of this book.
If you want to bother and take the time, go through the book of Revelation and make a list of any and all things that have been mentioned in this book that have been fulfilled. The remainder would obviously be unfulfilled. Remember that you can't add anything or take away anything from the prophecy of this book. You will have to consider three body politics, the church, the Jews and nation of Israel and the children of disobedience that are in the world. You have scenes in heaven and on the earth, you have battles and judgments and messages that are to be given. You have the two witnesses and prophets that are sent from heaven to the earth with great power. You have the seven seals, trumpets, vials and the three 'woes' that will be executed upon the earth. You have the mystery and city of Babylon being rebuilt. You have the Dragon, the Beast and the False Prophet to deal with, that according to you will have nothing to do with deceiving the nations.
All of these thing are to come to past before the Second Advent or the Second Coming of Christ. Furthermore I would like you to explain the two battles that will take place. The battle of Armageddon within (Rev 16:14 - 19:21) and the one mentioned in (Rev 20:8,9).