Amillennialism
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Zone,
Could the second coming or advent of Jesus Christ be today or tomorrow? Is His return to the earth imminent, meaning it could happen at any moment? Surely such a simple question cannot be denied an answer. Do you believe that Zone or do you believe there are others things that must happen before His second coming can take place? I asked you about what you believed to be already fulfilled according to the scriptures in Revelation, but you referred me to another and told me to do my homework.
This thing you have with conspiracies and the Illuminati and the fake rapture that you have boasted of that could happen, is this so that you can justify that there is no real rapture of the church so that Antichrist can have entrance through a delusion and gain prominence in the world among the churched? Is it also for your boasting, that when this fake rapture happens, that you can be prepared to rebuke that spirit of Antichrist and help all the brethren that have fallen away from the faith because the rapture did not happen as they believed or supposed?
Could the second coming or advent of Jesus Christ be today or tomorrow? Is His return to the earth imminent, meaning it could happen at any moment? Surely such a simple question cannot be denied an answer. Do you believe that Zone or do you believe there are others things that must happen before His second coming can take place? I asked you about what you believed to be already fulfilled according to the scriptures in Revelation, but you referred me to another and told me to do my homework.
This thing you have with conspiracies and the Illuminati and the fake rapture that you have boasted of that could happen, is this so that you can justify that there is no real rapture of the church so that Antichrist can have entrance through a delusion and gain prominence in the world among the churched? Is it also for your boasting, that when this fake rapture happens, that you can be prepared to rebuke that spirit of Antichrist and help all the brethren that have fallen away from the faith because the rapture did not happen as they believed or supposed?
A
ummm no.... not if you are child of God. the Holy Spirit is teacher, MEDIATOR, and Comforter.
The Holy Spirit is the defense attorney NOT the prosecutor (that would be Satan, or the angel watching over you and recording your deeds both good and bad in the books of your life). He can NOT be both, it would be a CONFLICT of interest...
the Judge is Jesus and the officer is His angels and Prison is Hell. the debt can never be paid unless a loved one (mmm Jesus and His blood?) redeems the person. How many people were ever released out of debtor prison?
What is your point?
Is the Holy Spirit YOUR adversary?
The Holy Spirit is the defense attorney NOT the prosecutor (that would be Satan, or the angel watching over you and recording your deeds both good and bad in the books of your life). He can NOT be both, it would be a CONFLICT of interest...
the Judge is Jesus and the officer is His angels and Prison is Hell. the debt can never be paid unless a loved one (mmm Jesus and His blood?) redeems the person. How many people were ever released out of debtor prison?
What is your point?
Is the Holy Spirit YOUR adversary?
explain to me the Biblical mandate for American Christians to agree on every level to the killing of millions of gentiles in the ME.
show me again where that is in scripture.
i know it can't be found in the Sermon on the Mount.
i think it has to do with this:
in a television broadcast from his church to his many followers, the Rev. Jerry Falwell said that he would sooner give up his car and ride a bicycle than yield to Arab blackmail. Citing Genesis (12:3), he explained that G-d "will bless those who bless the Jews and curse whoever curses the Jews."
IS THAT WHAT GENESIS 12:3 says?
show me again where that is in scripture.
i know it can't be found in the Sermon on the Mount.
i think it has to do with this:
in a television broadcast from his church to his many followers, the Rev. Jerry Falwell said that he would sooner give up his car and ride a bicycle than yield to Arab blackmail. Citing Genesis (12:3), he explained that G-d "will bless those who bless the Jews and curse whoever curses the Jews."
IS THAT WHAT GENESIS 12:3 says?
A
I don't get it in the first verse of the prophecy it says it is to ANNOINT the MOST HOLY. if its not done then there is NO remission of sins, NO reconciliation with God, NO new covenant. YOUR PEOPLE refers to EVERYONE Jesus chooses to SAVE. otherwise this prophecy is just for the jews and there is no end of sins for others, which is a lie for not all of Daniel's fleshly descendants were saved only the ones who believed in Jesus.
Daniel 9
24 “ Seventy weeks[a] are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
Daniel 9
24 “ Seventy weeks[a] are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
AND The Most Holy was anointed when He walked down the banks of the river Jordan and was baptised by john.
and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him, and the Father spoke from heaven.
you are right ananda.
it's only EVER BEEN ABOUT THE PROMISED DELIVERER.
there were always covenant people who didn't believe.
they died in the wilderness, they died in 70AD.
there's ONE COVENANT.
John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
all the things listed in Daniel were accomplished: for those who BELIEVE.
AMEN.
and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him, and the Father spoke from heaven.
you are right ananda.
it's only EVER BEEN ABOUT THE PROMISED DELIVERER.
there were always covenant people who didn't believe.
they died in the wilderness, they died in 70AD.
there's ONE COVENANT.
John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
all the things listed in Daniel were accomplished: for those who BELIEVE.
AMEN.
A
no because God has already fulfilled those, but you keep wanting to make them say something they do not.
Romans 11 does NOT talk about a LAND promise but the promise to be grafted back into the Tree of Life....
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,[f] if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
the blindness will be lifted from the Jewish people after the end of this church age when the gospel has been preached and the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
matthew 24
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
If the Jews continue in their unbelief they will be burnt with the other branches on the final day of judgement.
I can show you where any passages from the OT has been either fulfilled or will be fulfill through the fulfillment of Revelations. but you probably won't believe me.
tell me what purpose does a future 1000 year reign serve God and advancing HIS Kingdom? Is His Kingdom TODAY or in the Future?
Romans 11 does NOT talk about a LAND promise but the promise to be grafted back into the Tree of Life....
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,[f] if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
the blindness will be lifted from the Jewish people after the end of this church age when the gospel has been preached and the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
matthew 24
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
If the Jews continue in their unbelief they will be burnt with the other branches on the final day of judgement.
I can show you where any passages from the OT has been either fulfilled or will be fulfill through the fulfillment of Revelations. but you probably won't believe me.
tell me what purpose does a future 1000 year reign serve God and advancing HIS Kingdom? Is His Kingdom TODAY or in the Future?
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A
are you implying that the Holy Spirit is not of ONE mind and heart with JESUS?
1 John 2
1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
Yes Jesus is our Mediator, are you trying to imply that the HOLY Spirit would go against Jesus and be His adversary?
why do you want to justify your belief that the Holy Spirit is an adversary to God's people? because you should know that is a LIE. SATAN is the accuser of brethren and HE is the adversary though he likes to dress in robes of an angel of Light. Sometimes he may even claim to BE "god"
If it is NOT a lie show me in SCRIPTURE where the HOLY SPIRIT has EVER been an adversary to God's servants.
1 John 2
1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
Yes Jesus is our Mediator, are you trying to imply that the HOLY Spirit would go against Jesus and be His adversary?
why do you want to justify your belief that the Holy Spirit is an adversary to God's people? because you should know that is a LIE. SATAN is the accuser of brethren and HE is the adversary though he likes to dress in robes of an angel of Light. Sometimes he may even claim to BE "god"
If it is NOT a lie show me in SCRIPTURE where the HOLY SPIRIT has EVER been an adversary to God's servants.
good post.
but where does this idea come from?
the blindness will be lifted from the Jewish people after the end of this church age when the gospel has been preached and the fullness of the Gentiles has come in
what does Romans 11 say about the WHEN?
28As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. 32For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
- where did the term CHURCH AGE come from?
but where does this idea come from?
the blindness will be lifted from the Jewish people after the end of this church age when the gospel has been preached and the fullness of the Gentiles has come in
what does Romans 11 say about the WHEN?
28As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. 32For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
- where did the term CHURCH AGE come from?
A
Jesus does NOT give as the world gives.
John 14
15 “If you love Me, keep[d] My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
25 “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
now WHO is the HOLY SPIRIT if not GOD's SON?
Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”
Galatians 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”
John 14
15 “If you love Me, keep[d] My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
25 “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
now WHO is the HOLY SPIRIT if not GOD's SON?
Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”
Galatians 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”
A
mmm good question,
I think I've heard it alot, but then it might be from some of the dispie papers I went through.
I'll have to reexamine the thought and be more careful in the future. thanks...
so are they still enemies of God regarding the gospel?
"Regarding election they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers" what do you think that means?
I always thought the NEW Covenant was in place and THESE words were truth:
Jeremiah 31:29-35
New King James Version (NKJV)
29 In those days they shall say no more:
‘ The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge.’
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.
A New Covenant
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[a] says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
see the last line about Forgiving Iniquities and not remembering sin which is also referred to as the Handwriting on the Wall?
Refers to Daniel 9 prophecy and Jesus work on the Cross.....
Colossians 2:13-15
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
I think I've heard it alot, but then it might be from some of the dispie papers I went through.
I'll have to reexamine the thought and be more careful in the future. thanks...
so are they still enemies of God regarding the gospel?
"Regarding election they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers" what do you think that means?
I always thought the NEW Covenant was in place and THESE words were truth:
Jeremiah 31:29-35
New King James Version (NKJV)
29 In those days they shall say no more:
‘ The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge.’
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.
A New Covenant
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[a] says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
see the last line about Forgiving Iniquities and not remembering sin which is also referred to as the Handwriting on the Wall?
Refers to Daniel 9 prophecy and Jesus work on the Cross.....
Colossians 2:13-15
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
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of course they are. so is anybody who rejects the Cross.
the key words concerning physical israel are always:
ELECTION (God's choice)
REMNANT (the portion always reserved for Himself, no matter what the level of apostasy of the rest).
PAUL SAID "AND IN THIS WAY" all israel shall be saved....
WHAT WAY?
remnant, elect, according to Grace.
ppl never bother reading the part about elijah and God saying (PP) you're not the only one left, I HAVE RESERVED TO MYSELF 7,000 WHO HAVE NOT BOWED TO BA'AL
it is in that context the mystery of israel's salvation is discussed: GOD HAS RESERVED HIMSELF A REMNANT. always.
paul says, God has NOT cast away his people you guys! look at me! i'm proof!
its not that hard.
the key words concerning physical israel are always:
ELECTION (God's choice)
REMNANT (the portion always reserved for Himself, no matter what the level of apostasy of the rest).
PAUL SAID "AND IN THIS WAY" all israel shall be saved....
WHAT WAY?
remnant, elect, according to Grace.
ppl never bother reading the part about elijah and God saying (PP) you're not the only one left, I HAVE RESERVED TO MYSELF 7,000 WHO HAVE NOT BOWED TO BA'AL
it is in that context the mystery of israel's salvation is discussed: GOD HAS RESERVED HIMSELF A REMNANT. always.
paul says, God has NOT cast away his people you guys! look at me! i'm proof!
its not that hard.
E
Well Ananda, I could be like you and just look at a passage and assume something.
Or I could actually study to see what is being said. Do you not know we can take OT prophesy and NT fact and put it together? Do you not understand that is what Paul was doing? Why did paul all over romans say Jew and Gentile were one. But in chapter 11 separate them again? I have asked this many many times. maybe you can give an answer?
As for what is said.
God said in Ez 37
11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken it and performed it,” says the LORD.’ ”
Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel;
25 Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children
This can not be the new jerusalem. the fathers never lived in the new jerusalem. This is the earthly land.
Is 49
‘You are My servant, O Israel,
In whom I will be glorified.’
4 Then I said, ‘I have labored in vain,
I have spent my strength for nothing and in vain;
Yet surely my just reward is with the LORD,
And my work with my God.’ ”
5 “And now the LORD says,
Who formed Me from the womb to be His Servant,
To bring Jacob back to Him,
So that Israel is gathered to Him
(For I shall be glorious in the eyes of the LORD,
And My God shall be My strength),
6 Indeed He says,
‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob,
And to restore the preserved ones of Israel;
I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles,
That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”
7 Thus says the LORD,
The Redeemer of Israel, their Holy One,
To Him whom man despises,
To Him whom the nation abhors,
To the Servant of rulers:
“Kings shall see and arise,
Princes also shall worship,
Because of the LORD who is faithful,
The Holy One of Israel;
And He has chosen You.”
8 Thus says the LORD: “In an acceptable time I have heard You, and in the day of salvation I have helped You; I will preserve You and give You As a covenant to the people, To restore the earth,
31 “At the same time,” says the LORD, “I will be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be My people.”
2 Thus says the LORD:
“The people who survived the sword
Found grace in the wilderness
Israel, when I went to give him rest.”
3 The LORD has appeared of old to me, saying:
“Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love;
Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.
4 Again I will build you, and you shall be rebuilt,
O virgin of Israel!
You shall again be adorned with your tambourines,
And shall go forth in the dances of those who rejoice.
5 You shall yet plant vines on the mountains of Samaria;
The planters shall plant and eat them as ordinary food.
6 For there shall be a day
When the watchmen will cry on Mount Ephraim,
‘Arise, and let us go up to Zion,
To the LORD our God.’ ”
7 For thus says the LORD:
“Sing with gladness for Jacob,
And shout among the chief of the nations;
Proclaim, give praise, and say,
‘O LORD, save Your people,
The remnant of Israel!’
8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country,
And gather them from the ends of the earth,
Among them the blind and the lame,
The woman with child
And the one who labors with child, together;
A great throng shall return there.
9 They shall come with weeping,
And with supplications I will lead them.
I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters,
In a straight way in which they shall not stumble;
For I am a Father to Israel,
And Ephraim is My firstborn.
0 “Hear the word of the LORD, O nations,
And declare it in the isles afar off, and say,
‘He who scattered Israel will gather him,
And keep him as a shepherd does his flock.’
11 For the LORD has redeemed Jacob,
I could go on and on. But you see the picture
As for romans 11. Did you even look at the OT passages which were being quoted by Paul??
Is 59: 20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion,
And to those who turn from transgression in Jacob,”
Says the LORD.
Arise, shine;
For your light has come!
And the glory of the LORD is risen upon you.
Is 60: 2 For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth,
And deep darkness the people;
But the LORD will arise over you,
And His glory will be seen upon you.
3 The Gentiles shall come to your light,
And kings to the brightness of your rising.
10 “The sons of foreigners shall build up your walls,
And their kings shall minister to you;
For in My wrath I struck you,
But in My favor I have had mercy on you.
11 Therefore your gates shall be open continually;
They shall not be shut day or night,
That men may bring to you the wealth of the Gentiles,
And their kings in procession.
12 For the nation and kingdom which will not serve you shall perish,
And those nations shall be utterly ruined.
So tell me. Why would God say he would destroy a gentile nation for not serving Israel?
I think you have seen more than enough ample evidence as to why I can not believe the way you do sis. Paul spoke of the return. He spoke of ALL the ot prophesies concerning Israel being regathered after they repent.
As for the end of the church. It is not at the end when this happens. It is AFTER the time of the gentiles (church) has been completed.
Or I could actually study to see what is being said. Do you not know we can take OT prophesy and NT fact and put it together? Do you not understand that is what Paul was doing? Why did paul all over romans say Jew and Gentile were one. But in chapter 11 separate them again? I have asked this many many times. maybe you can give an answer?
As for what is said.
God said in Ez 37
11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken it and performed it,” says the LORD.’ ”
Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel;
25 Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children
This can not be the new jerusalem. the fathers never lived in the new jerusalem. This is the earthly land.
Is 49
‘You are My servant, O Israel,
In whom I will be glorified.’
4 Then I said, ‘I have labored in vain,
I have spent my strength for nothing and in vain;
Yet surely my just reward is with the LORD,
And my work with my God.’ ”
5 “And now the LORD says,
Who formed Me from the womb to be His Servant,
To bring Jacob back to Him,
So that Israel is gathered to Him
(For I shall be glorious in the eyes of the LORD,
And My God shall be My strength),
6 Indeed He says,
‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob,
And to restore the preserved ones of Israel;
I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles,
That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”
7 Thus says the LORD,
The Redeemer of Israel, their Holy One,
To Him whom man despises,
To Him whom the nation abhors,
To the Servant of rulers:
“Kings shall see and arise,
Princes also shall worship,
Because of the LORD who is faithful,
The Holy One of Israel;
And He has chosen You.”
8 Thus says the LORD: “In an acceptable time I have heard You, and in the day of salvation I have helped You; I will preserve You and give You As a covenant to the people, To restore the earth,
31 “At the same time,” says the LORD, “I will be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be My people.”
2 Thus says the LORD:
“The people who survived the sword
Found grace in the wilderness
Israel, when I went to give him rest.”
3 The LORD has appeared of old to me, saying:
“Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love;
Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.
4 Again I will build you, and you shall be rebuilt,
O virgin of Israel!
You shall again be adorned with your tambourines,
And shall go forth in the dances of those who rejoice.
5 You shall yet plant vines on the mountains of Samaria;
The planters shall plant and eat them as ordinary food.
6 For there shall be a day
When the watchmen will cry on Mount Ephraim,
‘Arise, and let us go up to Zion,
To the LORD our God.’ ”
7 For thus says the LORD:
“Sing with gladness for Jacob,
And shout among the chief of the nations;
Proclaim, give praise, and say,
‘O LORD, save Your people,
The remnant of Israel!’
8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country,
And gather them from the ends of the earth,
Among them the blind and the lame,
The woman with child
And the one who labors with child, together;
A great throng shall return there.
9 They shall come with weeping,
And with supplications I will lead them.
I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters,
In a straight way in which they shall not stumble;
For I am a Father to Israel,
And Ephraim is My firstborn.
0 “Hear the word of the LORD, O nations,
And declare it in the isles afar off, and say,
‘He who scattered Israel will gather him,
And keep him as a shepherd does his flock.’
11 For the LORD has redeemed Jacob,
I could go on and on. But you see the picture
As for romans 11. Did you even look at the OT passages which were being quoted by Paul??
Is 59: 20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion,
And to those who turn from transgression in Jacob,”
Says the LORD.
Arise, shine;
For your light has come!
And the glory of the LORD is risen upon you.
Is 60: 2 For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth,
And deep darkness the people;
But the LORD will arise over you,
And His glory will be seen upon you.
3 The Gentiles shall come to your light,
And kings to the brightness of your rising.
10 “The sons of foreigners shall build up your walls,
And their kings shall minister to you;
For in My wrath I struck you,
But in My favor I have had mercy on you.
11 Therefore your gates shall be open continually;
They shall not be shut day or night,
That men may bring to you the wealth of the Gentiles,
And their kings in procession.
12 For the nation and kingdom which will not serve you shall perish,
And those nations shall be utterly ruined.
So tell me. Why would God say he would destroy a gentile nation for not serving Israel?
I think you have seen more than enough ample evidence as to why I can not believe the way you do sis. Paul spoke of the return. He spoke of ALL the ot prophesies concerning Israel being regathered after they repent.
As for the end of the church. It is not at the end when this happens. It is AFTER the time of the gentiles (church) has been completed.
A
NOT serving JESUS. JESUS is the LIGHT! He is the REDEEMER. you even quoted it.
Isaiah 49
8 Thus says the LORD: “In an acceptable time I have heard You, and in the day of salvation I have helped You; I will preserve You and give You As a covenant to the people, To restore the earth,
that talks about JESUS....
Among them the blind and the lame,
The woman with child
And the one who labors with child, together;
A great throng shall return there.
9 They shall come with weeping,
And with supplications I will lead them.
I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters,
In a straight way in which they shall not stumble;
For I am a Father to Israel,
And Ephraim is My firstborn.
0 “Hear the word of the LORD, O nations,
And declare it in the isles afar off, and say,
‘He who scattered Israel will gather him,
And keep him as a shepherd does his flock.’
11 For the LORD has redeemed Jacob,
JESUS did ALL that. why do you think He told John the Baptist servants this:
Luke 7:21-23
New King James Version (NKJV)
21 And that very hour He cured many of infirmities, afflictions, and evil spirits; and to many blind He gave sight.
22 Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and tell John the things you have seen and heard: that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, the poor have the gospel preached to them. 23 And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me.”
No EG I don't see your point. Jesus FULFILLED those prophecies and REDEEMED HIS PEOPLE and THE WORLD.
the rivers of water, Water of LIFE flowing from Christ? sound familiar?
Jesus the True Shepherd? us His sheep?
Its in the NT.
I still don't get what you think is unfulfilled.
Isaiah 49
8 Thus says the LORD: “In an acceptable time I have heard You, and in the day of salvation I have helped You; I will preserve You and give You As a covenant to the people, To restore the earth,
that talks about JESUS....
Among them the blind and the lame,
The woman with child
And the one who labors with child, together;
A great throng shall return there.
9 They shall come with weeping,
And with supplications I will lead them.
I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters,
In a straight way in which they shall not stumble;
For I am a Father to Israel,
And Ephraim is My firstborn.
0 “Hear the word of the LORD, O nations,
And declare it in the isles afar off, and say,
‘He who scattered Israel will gather him,
And keep him as a shepherd does his flock.’
11 For the LORD has redeemed Jacob,
JESUS did ALL that. why do you think He told John the Baptist servants this:
Luke 7:21-23
New King James Version (NKJV)
21 And that very hour He cured many of infirmities, afflictions, and evil spirits; and to many blind He gave sight.
22 Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and tell John the things you have seen and heard: that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, the poor have the gospel preached to them. 23 And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me.”
No EG I don't see your point. Jesus FULFILLED those prophecies and REDEEMED HIS PEOPLE and THE WORLD.
the rivers of water, Water of LIFE flowing from Christ? sound familiar?
Jesus the True Shepherd? us His sheep?
Its in the NT.
I still don't get what you think is unfulfilled.
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