Understanding God’s election

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Cameron143

Cameron143

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Kroogz said:
"The reprobate like the elect are appointed to be so by the secret council of God's will" (Calvin's Institutes II, chapter xxii, page 11) and "...their doom was fixed from all eternity and nothing in them could transfer them to a contrary class..." (Calvin's Institutes III, chapter iii, page 4).

"...Not all men are created with similar destiny but eternal life is foreordained for some, and eternal damnation for others. Every man, therefore, being created for one or the other of these ends, we say, he is either predestined either to life or death" (Calvin's Institutes III, chapter xxiii).
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I stand corrected. Appreciate you sharing. Still...doesn't say he expected most people would end up unsaved.
 
C

Cranberry

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
I think it paints a perverse picture of reality. All men sin because they inherit a dead spiritual nature, ie separated from God, which prevents them from having perfect knowledge of God's will, therefore they sin. It says that men sin because spiritual death entered the world, not because of deformed DNA, which is a consequence, not the main cause, of generations of sin

On account of this as through one man sin entered into the world, and through sin, death, thus to all men death passed, upon which all sinned. Romans 5:12​
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Some have said the entire proposal is perverse. That all humans are born damned because of the error of one man an omnibenevolent Father of him would not forgive. And in turn cursed all offspring to be damned because of one man. That first Adam.

Then after millennia God decided to save all the cursed through the torture and death sacrifice of one man.The second Adam,Jesus,who was God made flesh.

It is a curious undertaking to think of all the ins and outs of what is purposed as being saved from God whocreated it all to be necessary.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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#3,104
Kroogz said:
"The reprobate like the elect are appointed to be so by the secret council of God's will" (Calvin's Institutes II, chapter xxii, page 11) and "...their doom was fixed from all eternity and nothing in them could transfer them to a contrary class..." (Calvin's Institutes III, chapter iii, page 4).

"...Not all men are created with similar destiny but eternal life is foreordained for some, and eternal damnation for others. Every man, therefore, being created for one or the other of these ends, we say, he is either predestined either to life or death" (Calvin's Institutes III, chapter xxiii).
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It is a challenge for some to really come to grips with where their doctrine really ends, if God acts to save some and not others then double predestination applies no matter how much denial there is.

With such ease they pronounce how men fitted themselves for destruction as they count themselves among the saved.
 
C

ChristRoseFromTheDead

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Cranberry said:
Some have said the entire proposal is perverse. That all humans are born damned because of the error of one man an omnibenevolent Father of him would not forgive. And in turn cursed all offspring to be damned because of one man. That first Adam.

Then after millennia God decided to save all the cursed through the torture and death sacrifice of one man.The second Adam,Jesus,who was God made flesh.

It is a curious undertaking to think of all the ins and outs of what is purposed as being saved from God whocreated it all to be necessary.
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It is a difficult situation for a sentient being with supposed free will to have to deal with. Job cursed the day he was born. Many times I have wished for a ctrl-z
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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Inquisitor said:
Do you think the real problem is a spiritual problem or a reading and comprehension issue?
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I am just going to ask you something, isn't it ironic that people who adhere to this tenet of personal bequeathed gnosis/revelation by the Spirit of God to respond positively to the Gospel are in a place where they cannot perceive truth.
:unsure:

I find this so ironic.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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HeIsHere said:
It is a challenge for some to really come to grips with where their doctrine really ends, if God acts to save some and not others then double predestination applies no matter how much denial there is.

With such ease they pronounce how men fitted themselves for destruction as they count themselves among the saved.
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What does that even mean? If men don't fit themselves for destruction, then who does? And what does that have to do with counting oneself saved? Don't you want everyone to be saved? Perhaps you should spend more time maintaining the unity of the faith and building up and edifying Christians rather than putting them down.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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Cameron143 said:
What does that even mean? If men don't fit themselves for destruction, then who does? And what does that have to do with counting oneself saved? Don't you want everyone to be saved? Perhaps you should spend more time maintaining the unity of the faith and building up and edifying Christians rather than putting them down.
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Not the real God, but the god of Calvinism passed them by so....
Truth is what edifies that is what I am doing along with supporting others who preach the correct Gospel.
 
Blain

Blain

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HeIsHere said:
I am just going to ask you something, isn't it ironic that people who adhere to this tenet of personal bequeathed gnosis/revelation by the Spirit of God to respond positively to the Gospel are in a place where they cannot perceive truth.
:unsure:

I find this so ironic.
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A disagree in opinion I suppose
 
cv5

cv5

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HeIsHere said:
It is a challenge for some to really come to grips with where their doctrine really ends, if God acts to save some and not others then double predestination applies no matter how much denial there is.

With such ease they pronounce how men fitted themselves for destruction as they count themselves among the saved.
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Their whole of their faulty doctrine hinges upon one basic dogmatic element:

That man is purposefully created condemned, CONSEQUENTLY suffers totally depravity and total inability.

You remove that garbage, then the truth of Scripture prevails.
Which is of course that God created man with WILL, the capacity to BELIEVE, and therefore CHOICE.

The fact that God is STILL INTERACTING with man in grace and mercy PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt
that man IS redeemable in his present state.

The Calvinite doomers say otherwise, and it is the foundation of their dungeon.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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HeIsHere said:
Not the real God, but the god of Calvinism passed them by so....
Truth is what edifies that is what I am doing along with supporting others who preach the correct Gospel.
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So who fits men for destruction?
 
Blain

Blain

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Cameron143 said:
The topic is election. Reread the topic thread. What do you make of Romans 9:21-23?
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If I may put my two cents the vessels prepared for destruction could mean just that prepared as in they prepared themselves for destruction it never said pre ordained or predestined just prepared
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Blain said:
If I may put my two cents the vessels prepared for destruction could mean just that prepared as in they prepared themselves for destruction it never said pre ordained or predestined just prepared
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I agree. They fit themselves for destruction. I've never made the claim for double predestination. This is the very thing I was refuting.
 
cv5

cv5

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HeIsHere said:
Not the real God, but the god of Calvinism passed them by so....
Truth is what edifies that is what I am doing along with supporting others who preach the correct Gospel.
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Truth is love.
False doctrines are lies and hate......and they are Satan's main weapon.
 
cv5

cv5

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Blain said:
you will know them by their fruits after all
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And gleefully condemning, crippling, accusing every person that comes into the world, and denying a freely available salvation to every Tom Dick and Harry before they were ever born is some kind of wicked fruit.
 
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