Understanding God’s election

[Magenta]

Ephesians 4:17-18; Luke 6:43; Jeremiah 10:14 In the futility of their thinking, unbelievers are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. A diseased tree cannot bear good fruit. Every man is senseless and devoid of knowledge.

 

[Rufus]

Ephesians 4:17-18; Luke 6:43; Jeremiah 10:14 In the futility of their thinking, unbelievers are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. A diseased tree cannot bear good fruit. Every man is senseless and devoid of knowledge.

And it's precisely that "hardness of the heart" that makes "circumcision made without human hands" absolutely necessary. Just like a hard callous on a foot needs to be "cut" away, so it is with the human heart, as well.

 

[Magenta]

And it's precisely that "hardness of the heart" that makes "circumcision made without human hands" absolutely
necessary. Just like a hard callous on a foot needs to be "cut" away, so it is with the human heart, as well.

Amen! Though it is just more for the free willing nay-sayers to deny...

 

[Inquisitor]

The spiritually dead are incapable of doing so. They must first be saved and made spiritually alive, but that is given only to the elect.

I agree with what you wrote except something was missing.

Can anyone see what the missing phrase would be?

The spiritually dead are incapable of doing so. They must first be saved and made spiritually alive, but that is given only to the elect

And so only the commands contained in the Covenant Law of Moses count for your stated purpose. What about the commands in the NT? There's no "need" for the Messiah under the New Covenant commands?

Abraham told Isaac that God will provide the sacrifice.

Genesis 22:7-8
Isaac spoke to Abraham his father and said, “My father!” And he said, “Here I am, my son.” And he said,
“Behold, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?” Abraham said, “God will
provide for Himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.”

Moses wrote about Jesus!

John 5:46
For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me.

The law was written for Jesus to fulfill not for you to fulfill Rufus.

The sacrificial laws alone tell us the atonement was predestined in the Lamb of God.

The purpose of the Old Testament was to introduce the messiah, and the need for the messiah.

The N.T was the fulfillment of the O.T in that revelation of Jesus Christ.

The author of life could be seen, heard, and even touched by some, according to John.

The missing phrase is always, "in or through Jesus Christ".

 

[Inquisitor]

Ephesians 4:17-18; Luke 6:43; Jeremiah 10:14 In the futility of their thinking, unbelievers are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. A diseased tree cannot bear good fruit. Every man is senseless and devoid of knowledge.

I think those quotations apply to unbelievers.

 

[Cameron143]

I think those quotations apply to unbelievers.

How about those described in Ephesians 2:2-3?

 

[Cranberry]

if you hate tulip you hate the Gospel of God, but you dont realize it, you have been deceived. What is sad is that truth like predestination, election are in the scriptures and you guys are deceived into thinking calvin put them there

I think you will never reach that which suffers anti-Calvinism myopia.

In fact I have read enough of those ones here to arrive at the conclusion none know what Calvinism is. Instead of knowledge it is their tool to disparage the Gospel and get attention for their behavior that baits responses.

 

[Magenta]

How about those described in Ephesians 2:2-3?

Ephesians 2:1-3 You were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 5:12 Ephesians 2:3 Just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned. We were by nature children of wrath.
.

 

[Magenta]

Ephesians 2:4-7 ~ Because of His great love for us, God, Who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

 

[Magenta]

Praise the Lord

 

[Cameron143]

Ephesians 2:1-3 You were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.

The reason I asked the question is because there are those who believe that God only acts to save an individual once they believe. But if those spoken of are unbelievers, v.5 makes clear that unbelievers are quickened together with Christ before they believe.
I'm just wondering if people are consistent in their understanding.

 

[Rufus]

I agree with what you wrote except something was missing.

Can anyone see what the missing phrase would be?

The spiritually dead are incapable of doing so. They must first be saved and made spiritually alive, but that is given only to the elect


Abraham told Isaac that God will provide the sacrifice.

Genesis 22:7-8
Isaac spoke to Abraham his father and said, “My father!” And he said, “Here I am, my son.” And he said,
“Behold, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?” Abraham said, “God will
provide for Himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.”

Moses wrote about Jesus!

John 5:46
For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me.

The law was written for Jesus to fulfill not for you to fulfill Rufus.

The sacrificial laws alone tell us the atonement was predestined in the Lamb of God.

The purpose of the Old Testament was to introduce the messiah, and the need for the messiah.

The N.T was the fulfillment of the O.T in that revelation of Jesus Christ.

The author of life could be seen, heard, and even touched by some, according to John.

The missing phrase is always, "in or through Jesus Christ".

So how does the above answer my question about the NT commands? If God gave the Israelites the Covenant of Law with all its commands, knowing full well that no one would be able to keep the covenant perfectly, and that the real reason behind the Law was to show the ancient Hebrews their NEED for a Savior (which is what you stated earlier), then how is that the gospel demands (commands) given in the NT don't serve the exact same purpose?

 

[Magenta]

The reason I asked the question is because there are those who believe that God only acts to save an individual once they believe. But if those spoken of are unbelievers, v.5 makes clear that unbelievers are quickened together with Christ before they believe.
I'm just wondering if people are consistent in their understanding.

We already know they are not .

 

[brightfame52]

So how does the above answer my question about the NT commands? If God gave the Israelites the Covenant of Law with all its commands, knowing full well that no one would be able to keep the covenant perfectly, and that the real reason behind the Law was to show the ancient Hebrews their NEED for a Savior (which is what you stated earlier), then how is that the gospel demands (commands) given in the NT don't serve the exact same purpose?

The Gospel commands are given to them who already have spiritual life, their obedience evidences that life, they arent conditions to get life !

 

[Inquisitor]

How about those described in Ephesians 2:2-3?

Yes, those apply to unbelievers and believers alike.

 

[Inquisitor]

The Gospel commands are given to them who already have spiritual life, their obedience evidences that life, they arent conditions to get life !

What happens if they live their Christian life according to the desires of the flesh?

 

[rogerg]

The missing phrase is always, "in or through Jesus Christ".

Yeah, I can agree with that and often state that it is Christ who is the Savior and not man.

 

[brightfame52]

What happens if they live their Christian life according to the desires of the flesh?

Thats between them and God

 

[ParticularWife]

I think you will never reach that which suffers anti-Calvinism myopia.

In fact I have read enough of those ones here to arrive at the conclusion none know what Calvinism is. Instead of knowledge it is their tool to disparage the Gospel and get attention for their behavior that baits responses.

Calvinistm Derangement Syndrome is real. These people care far more about proving Calvin was some kind of sadistic liar than I care about whether they agree with him.
As I said a while ago, this isn't even a secondary issue and they're usually arguing with their imaginary version of a Calvinist. I literally just ignore it, they have some kind of emotional axe to grind and I have better ways to waste my time than arguing with people who criticize books they never read.