Understanding God’s election

[Inquisitor]

The DEAD cannot communicate with anyone.

So the dead don't speak to anyone?

1 Samuel 28-7
Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek out for me a woman who is a witch, that I may go to her and inquire of her.”
And his servants said to him, “Behold, there is a witch at Endor.”

Do you remember the narration.

The dead have spoken to the living.

 

[Inquisitor]

His salutation was to the saints, not to the church.
The Church is not mentioned, because election is not of nor towards the Church.
If God had wanted Church written, Church would have been written.
You're twisting scripture again. Each and every individual word as written matters. You shouldn't
make assumptions and try to pass them off as scripture.

The context of the text (Ephesians 1) does mention the church.

Ephesians 1:22-23
And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body,
the fullness of him who fills all in all.

 

[rogerg]

The context of the text (Ephesians 1) does mention the church.

Ephesians 1:22-23
And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body,
the fullness of him who fills all in all.

There was no church before the foundation of the world, which is when election occurred. I think you are conflating two different
subjects.

[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 

[Genez]

His salutation was to the saints, not to the church.
The Church is not mentioned, because election is not of nor towards the Church.
If God had wanted Church written, Church would have been written.
You're twisting scripture again. Each and every individual word as written matters. You shouldn't
make assumptions and try to pass them off as scripture.

​

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,​

​

To God’s holy people in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:​

​

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.​

Who were the saints being addressed in Ephesians 1:1?

Roger? What are you thinking?

 

[Genez]

The context of the text (Ephesians 1) does mention the church.

Ephesians 1:22-23
And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body,
the fullness of him who fills all in all.

I am wondering if we are being suckered into a hopeless situation.
Looks like Roger is not here with us among the living....

 

[Genez]

There was no church before the foundation of the world, which is when election occurred. I think you are conflating two different
subjects.

[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The Church was elected and decreed by God.

 

[fredoheaven]

Gods election I believe is nothing less than those whose names were written in the lambs book/register of life from/b4 the foundation of the world Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world

of course this is from not b4. It speaks in time and not eternity

 

[Genez]

His salutation was to the saints, not to the church.
The Church is not mentioned, because election is not of nor towards the Church.
If God had wanted Church written, Church would have been written.
You're twisting scripture again. Each and every individual word as written matters. You shouldn't
make assumptions and try to pass them off as scripture.

OOk... I'll play stupid.

Who were the saints being addressed?

 

[rogerg]

​

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,​

​

To God’s holy people in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:​

​

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.​

Who were the saints being addressed in Ephesians 1:1?

Roger? What are you thinking?

"Holy people" does not equate to "Church". Where did you see "Church" in the salutation. It is your ASSUMPTiON that "holy people" (NIV) "saints" (KJV) means Church, but if that was intended by God, He would have written it that way - Church is explicitly mentioned
in other verses, but not there, so it wasn't intended to be there. Again, the "us" in Eph 1:4, is personal/possessive pronoun - 1st person.
That means individuals. Stop making stuff up.

 

[rogerg]

OOk... I'll play stupid.

Who were the saints being addressed?

Those elected to salvation who had become saved. You didn't know that?

 

[rogerg]

OOk... I'll play stupid.

Who were the saints being addressed?

Show me the verses where it actually and explicitly states the Church is the elect, and don't base it on your imagination or
assumptions.

 

[Genez]

"Holy people" does not equate to "Church". Where did you see "Church" in the salutation.

To God’s holy people in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:

 

[rogerg]

To God’s holy people in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Yes, those people elected to salvation from before the foundation of the world and made righteous and holy by Christ. Do you see the word "people" in your own post and not "church"?

 

[Inquisitor]

There was no church before the foundation of the world, which is when election occurred. I think you are conflating two different
subjects.

[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

There are a number of ways to read that verse (Ephesians 1:4) as shown below.

[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Chosen to love others and not chosen to be saved.

Here is another way of reading that verse.

[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Everything is sourced and holds together IN HIM. That includes our salvation because Jesus was predestined from eternity.

So 'anyone who calls on the Lord is saved' IN HIM.

It is good to be aware that there are multiple ways to read the scripture.

I have two problems with Calvinism.

1) God is not partial towards anyone, God is never, ever partial.

2) Everything God does is through His love for humanity.

God is love and there is no other way of understanding Jesus.

 

[Genez]

Yes, those people elected to salvation from before the foundation of the world and made righteous and holy by Christ. Do you see the word "people" in your own post and not "church"?

Roger.... your stalling is a sign of being bankrupt.

That's all you have left.
I almost decided to try to explain more.
Almost.... But, know better now.

You are doctrinally challenged.

 

[Inquisitor]

There was no church before the foundation of the world, which is when election occurred. I think you are conflating two different
subjects.

[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The church is the body of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ was predestined, therefore the church was predestined!

The church is His body the actual fullness of Jesus Christ.

"as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all."

What do you think 'the fullness of Him', means?

 

[brightfame52]

of course this is from not b4. It speaks in time and not eternity

Nah its the same. From or before, doesnt change the sense

 

[rogerg]

[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Everything is sourced and holds together IN HIM. That includes our salvation because Jesus was predestined from eternity.

So 'anyone who calls on the Lord is saved' IN HIM.

No. You missed the "shall be saved' - it does not say "is saved" - future tense. It is not speaking of the first resurrection, but the second.

I have two problems with Calvinism.

1) God is not partial towards anyone, God is never, ever partial.

2) Everything God does is through His love for humanity.

God is love and there is no other way of understanding Jesus.

God is partial ... "Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated". Everyone not justified and made righteous by Christ, God hates because
they remain in sin and are in rebellion to God.

 

[rogerg]

Roger.... your stalling is a sign of being bankrupt.

That's all you have left.
I almost decided to try to explain more.
Almost.... But, know better now.

You are doctrinally challenged.

That's Genez-ese for "I don't have the verses".

 

[Inquisitor]

I am wondering if we are being suckered into a hopeless situation.
Looks like Roger is not here with us among the living....

They rely on an analysis of the text from the sixteenth century.

What could possibly go wrong?