Do you disagree with John Hagee's prosperity teaching?

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Crossfire

Guest
#41
#41
Grandpa said:
I thought Strangelove's posts were brilliant. When the adulteress woman was brought before Jesus by the pharisees and people demanding justice, what did Jesus say to them? He said "He who is without sin cast the first stone".

Isn't this in essence what has happened here. Scott from erie brought forth Hagee for all of you to throw stones at. Strangelove, in essence, said perhaps you should remove the plank from your own eye before you try to remove the splinter from your brothers eye. This is what Jesus taught. You would call that tough love and say the bible doesn't teach that?? The bible is full of tough love. Look at Jonah, Job and the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ just for starters...

God Bless You
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Both Jonah and Job are in the Old Testament. They didn't have the illustration or revelation of God's love that we have.

How did Jesus treat Judas, a man Jesus knew all along would breray him? Jesus loved him and treated him as his own disciple / brother.

If you want to promote tough love then fine, demonstrate to someone you know well enough who can handle it. But to a complete stranger some's idea of tough love comes across as hate and hypocrisy.
 
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Crossfire

Guest
#43
#43
Grandpa said:
I thought Strangelove's posts were brilliant. When the adulteress woman was brought before Jesus by the pharisees and people demanding justice, what did Jesus say to them? He said "He who is without sin cast the first stone".

Isn't this in essence what has happened here. Scott from erie brought forth Hagee for all of you to throw stones at. Strangelove, in essence, said perhaps you should remove the plank from your own eye before you try to remove the splinter from your brothers eye. This is what Jesus taught. You would call that tough love and say the bible doesn't teach that?? The bible is full of tough love. Look at Jonah, Job and the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ just for starters...

God Bless You
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Actually Grandpa, the conversation at hand encompasses over all behavior rather than what simply has gone on here. Thought you'd like to know.
 
Strangelove

Strangelove

Banned
#45
Aug 12, 2010
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#45
Crossfire said:
Bashing them is not love. In my opinion, it's pride (but that's just opinion).

Can I ask you an honest question? Which do you love more? The person you are trying to correct or the doctrine you are trying to teach?

I don't need an answer. All I ask is that you reflect on this.
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Well I'll answer anyway.

We're on a forum. I dont even KNOW you man.

I love the Brethren. People who have proved to me that they have solid doctrine. I call them all sorts of cute names and blow 'em kisses,,,and PM with them and invite them to fellowship with me on another forum where.

This is what loving your enemy means:

(Matthew 5:44) But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Which I do.

I pray for them.

I do good to them by handing them sound doctrine and TRUTH.

And if any happen to CURSE me, you will see me turn the other cheek and bless them.
 
Strangelove

Strangelove

Banned
#46
Aug 12, 2010
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#46
Red33 said:
What's even worse is when we are deceived by the very doctrine we believe comes from God through the scriptures. That is how Satan can get to the believer through the word. If we give the devil a place to do that in our lives he is more that able to take advantage of us and use whatever knowledge and preoccupation we gravitate toward to keep us stimulated with learning information while our hearts slowly turn and depart from the living God to the god of our knowledge and understanding. We become very active with others who are like minded in this stimulation and we have the contrive intellectual capacity to convince others that we are right and have something greater to offer others then just a passive knowledge and faith. This is when we are lifted up through pride in our heart and we fall into the condemnation of the devil, not his final abode but his own deception and web of lies that function in (poneros) evil infecting others with the very lies that we have been deceived by without knowing it.
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So true Redman.

You might wanna read that back to yourself.
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#47
Jun 24, 2010
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#47
Strangelove said:
So true Redman.

You might wanna read that back to yourself.
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Did you miss all the plural pronouns or were you so convicted in your heart by the content that you missed it and had to do something to recover and ease the blow.
 
Strangelove

Strangelove

Banned
#48
Aug 12, 2010
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#48
Red33 said:
Did you miss all the plural pronouns or were you so convicted in your heart by the content that you missed it and had to do something to recover and ease the blow.
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Oh sorry, I didnt realise that this was an admission of sorts.

Apologies.
 
A

adamj386

Guest
#49
#49
The Bible does not teach "Health and Wealth" as MANY, MANY of so called pastors, preachers and teachers, say. They will be amongst those who say to the LORD on Judgment day, "LORD< LORD, have we not done ...In your name. Jesus will say to them AND ALL WHO FOLLOW THEM - I NEVER KNEW YOU, DEPART FROM ME YE WORKERS OF INIQUITY. (mATT.7:21-23
 
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Tobby17

Guest
#50
#50
So if someone teaches about prosperity, he's going to hell.. Really??.. That should be in the *Very New Testament*..

Pastors beware!!!!, stop teaching about Wealth or Health, start teaching Christians about Poverty and Bad health as God wants it or else, Jesus will deny you on the last day :rolleyes:

Well these are the things we get this days *sighs*
 
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Crossfire

Guest
#51
#51
Tobby17 said:
So if someone teaches about prosperity, he's going to hell.. Really??.. That should be in the *Very New Testament*..

Pastors beware!!!!, stop teaching about Wealth or Health, start teaching Christians about Poverty and Bad health as God wants it or else, Jesus will deny you on the last day :rolleyes:

Well these are the things we get this days *sighs*
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Not sure what gave you that inclination, but that's not how I see it.

I believe in sowing and reaping. Paying tithes as well.

My problem is when people sow out of greed rather than the unction of the Holy Spirit to give. Most don't even know what spiritual unction is.

Anyways, I believe that if we seek first the Kingdom (God's will in a matter) then God will provide for our every need.

Besides, some people don't need wealth. Money in the hands of the undisciplined could get them in real trouble.
 
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SantoSubito

Guest
#52
#52
Strangelove said:
That wouldnt be, per chance, cuz my first post takes a general pop at the RCC AND EOC but the second is only at the EOC would it?

Pricing receipt for an average priestly vestment plz. Including the crown. Thanks.
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No actually it wouldn't be. The first post was simply a jab at us using vestments and other adornments, while the second one was actually a critique of some of the mishandling of money that has gone on.

As for vestment pricing, I can't speak for the EO, but the average vestment a Catholic priest would use looks somewhat like this.



Which will run anywhere from $150 all the way up to $400, and that is well within the price for a good suit. Besides vestments are an investment and will usually be used by many priests before they're finally retired, while a suit is only good for one pastor.
 
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NitzWalsh

Guest
#53
#53
SantoSubito said:
No actually it wouldn't be. The first post was simply a jab at us using vestments and other adornments, while the second one was actually a critique of some of the mishandling of money that has gone on.

As for vestment pricing, I can't speak for the EO, but the average vestment a Catholic priest would use looks somewhat like this.



Which will run anywhere from $150 all the way up to $400, and that is well within the price for a good suit. Besides vestments are an investment and will usually be used by many priests before they're finally retired, while a suit is only good for one pastor.
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That's lower than the price of a good suit... that's like the range of a mass produced budget suit... Good suits are like $3000.
 
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SantoSubito

Guest
#54
#54
NitzWalsh said:
That's lower than the price of a good suit... that's like the range of a mass produced budget suit... Good suits are like $3000.
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True, but I was trying to generous, and I have no idea how much suits cost:)
 
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NitzWalsh

Guest
#55
#55
SantoSubito said:
True, but I was trying to generous, and I have no idea how much suits cost:)
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I don't know about where you are, but here you can get a suit for about $150-400, but that'd be lower end mass produced. $800 can get you a nicer, better quality suit. $3000 gets you a hand made suit, with every part of it cut and stitched for you.

Most I've spent on a suit is $300.

I'm not saying they're bad looking, just lower quality material, and they tend to fall apart quicker.
 
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SantoSubito

Guest
#56
#56
NitzWalsh said:
I don't know about where you are, but here you can get a suit for about $150-400, but that'd be lower end mass produced. $800 can get you a nicer, better quality suit. $3000 gets you a hand made suit, with every part of it cut and stitched for you.

Most I've spent on a suit is $300.

I'm not saying they're bad looking, just lower quality material, and they tend to fall apart quicker.
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I've just never had a need for a suit to use regularly, and I won't be finished growing until I'm about 25 so it would be pointless to get one hand made right now.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#57
#57
Should be understood that prosperity gospel is not about God rewarding us for for our good deeds, led by the Holy Spirit, using finances or earthly possessions. Yes, there may be times and occasions where God may choose to go that route.
Prosperity teachers teach to have 'faith in your own faith', you are to believe that you 'create' your reality by the words you speak. 'Prosperity' comes from 'speaking it into existence using faith in your words' and that God will just come in and give it to you.
Also, the other way to get rich, give to their ministry. Many of them twist scripture to convince you of concepts such as the 'hundredfold blessing'. You give a dollar to their ministry, God will give you $100... you give $10,000 God will magically grant you $100,000. Give a car, God will reward you with 100 cars. Etc... giving to get is the idea. Not giving to help.

Also common teachings are that salvation did not happen on the cross. But that when Jesus 'took on the nature of Satan' on the cross, when he died he was dragged to hell for 3 days of torment in hell. Then God resurrects Christ, renewing his spirit as well, making Christ become the 'first born again man'. Salvation didn't occur til the resurrection, not on the cross. One preacher said if salvation were capable from the cross alone, that 'any born again man' could have saved us.

In true faith theology God is a screw up, and a genie in a bottle. And some teach we are actually all 'gods' ourselves. The power to get rich comes from our own faith in faith, which they consider to be an actual 'substance' in the universe. This exact teaching is found, reworded, in metaphysical cults and new age teachings.

These are just a few of the issues with the doctrines of Word of Faith/prosperity gospel. They keep going, all just as bad. Deifying man, making God just a bellhop for humanity, faith in ourselves rather than God. Placing words with 'faith' behind them as the ability to speak things into existence. Removing salvation from the cross and into hell.. it goes on. This is not a true gospel.

Amazon.com: Christianity In Crisis: The 21st Century (9780849900068): Hank Hanegraaff: Books
 
Strangelove

Strangelove

Banned
#58
Aug 12, 2010
2,819
12
0
#58
SantoSubito said:
No actually it wouldn't be. The first post was simply a jab at us using vestments and other adornments, while the second one was actually a critique of some of the mishandling of money that has gone on.

As for vestment pricing, I can't speak for the EO, but the average vestment a Catholic priest would use looks somewhat like this.



Which will run anywhere from $150 all the way up to $400, and that is well within the price for a good suit. Besides vestments are an investment and will usually be used by many priests before they're finally retired, while a suit is only good for one pastor.
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How much is THE POPES gear worth?

Including the CROWN and all the other frills??
 
G

GaryMac

Banned
#59
Sep 9, 2011
455
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#59
Scotth1960 said:
Do you disagree with John Hagee's prosperity teaching? He seems to suggest a godly man will necessarily be blessed with great wealth (lots of money). Is this what the Bible teaches? Does John Hagee ever read the book of Job?
Why do some preachers ask for money so much?
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Christ in you is not about prospering with riches of this world, prosperity in Christ is to obtain in you what Jesus had in him and it has nothing to do with mammon at all. He just needs to meet the Christ the way Jesus did: then he just might make a whip and drive out those who seek the riches of this world. It is Christ in you who is your glory not money as your glory as these preach – Gods anointing in you is what we seek as riches in Christ.
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#60
#60
SantoSubito said:
As for vestment pricing, I can't speak for the EO, but the average vestment a Catholic priest would use looks somewhat like this.



Which will run anywhere from $150 all the way up to $400, and that is well within the price for a good suit. Besides vestments are an investment and will usually be used by many priests before they're finally retired, while a suit is only good for one pastor.
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So the priest pay for it or the papacy supplies the $150-400 for the "vestment" .
Serious question
 
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