Do you disagree with John Hagee's prosperity teaching?

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A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
I did and you stuck your head in the sand like an ostrage after honking at me nonsensically then began kicking sand at me while pretending like I didn't and disregarding all promises to provide credible emperical evidence to support your fantastic conspiracy theory except for a little scrap that I rebutted. Very odd behavior from a very strange bird.

But I'll get back to it in due course, when I feel like it that is. Your delusions aren't ever high on my list of priorities.

And please stop bringing your global domination pharisitical talmudic cut off every Christian's head in the world satanic jewish conspiracy theory into every thread. It's nothing but an annoying red herring.

Now back to the topic...


Still waiting for AOK to apply his humungous brain to this thread:

LINK ::: Wow!
 
Aug 12, 2010
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I did and you stuck your head in the sand like an ostrage after honking at me nonsensically then began kicking sand at me while pretending like I didn't and disregarding all promises to provide credible emperical evidence to support your fantastic conspiracy theory except for a little scrap that I rebutted. Very odd behavior from a very strange bird.

But I'll get back to it in due course, when I feel like it that is. Your delusions aren't ever high on my list of priorities.

And please stop bringing your global domination pharisitical talmudic cut off every Christian's head in the world satanic jewish conspiracy theory into every thread. It's nothing but an annoying red herring.

Now back to the topic...
Oh...a bit contradictory. You did address it....but uhm....you'll get to it in due course??

Oh ok?

But your still happy to label the whole thing a red herring even though you havn't even answered the questions posed to you or researched the noahide laws.

I'm afraid I'm gonna have to keep reminding you of this every time you condescend me and make snarky remarks about mental health/conspiracy theories/ and such like.

Here let me bump the thread for you, just so everyone can see how badly your lagging behind.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
We'll certainly look at any credible evidence that they have previously released fraudulent figures to support your assertion (phrased as a sarcastic question) but… you never do.

In any event, even if they had (which right now is nothing but a baseless allegation of yours), the era of public Vatican financial transparency began in January of this year. The Vatican has been working with the European Union and European Central Bank to standardize its financial activities to international standards. The current Pope is not at all happy with past status quo and has setup a watchdog body, the Financial Information Authority, under his direct supervision to ensure that all laws are followed by all Vatican institutions.

And I didn’t bother to answer your question because the multitude of Strangelove baseless allegations (often framed as sarcastic questions to disguise them) all runs together after awhile and become boring and annoying as your selective amnesia condition.


Of course the vatican would never release fraudulent figures would they?
LOLZ!
Why didnt you answer this:
Do they sometimes jockey for position by meeting in small groups behind closed doors and organizing certain secretive activities that may not be entirely legal?
And how are we doing with the Noahide laws?
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
Great so the RCC is rich beyond our wildest imaginations.

(1 Timothy 6:9) But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

(1 Timothy 6:10) For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

(1 Timothy 6:11) But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
Really the only way in which we're rich is in priceless art and statuary which has been accumulated over the years (as can be expected for an institution spanning 2000 years), and in property holdings in areas where reals estate is now a premium (like in Central NYC or in Central Rome, or in (insert virtually any other capitol city here). Most of the actual funds go towards your regular churchy stuff like maintaining buildings, charity, building new buildings, and what not.
 
Feb 23, 2011
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Fractional-reserve banking simply means a bank does not retain ALL of their customer’s deposits within the bank but actually lends some of the money out at an interest rate to make a profit. The remaining available funds are called bank reserves and the reserve ratio is regulated by the government.

The money doesn't actually go away but circulates in the money supply (in a closed economic system it helps that country's economy but in an open system with a broken trade and immigration paradigm like the U.S. currently finds itself in the money often helps other countries economies instead).

It is imporant to note that banks cannot exist without lending money unless their operations are funded another way and they cannot earn a profit without lending money so almost every bank in the world works off of fractional-reserve banking.

A metaphor to what you are saying might look like this deer transportation is based on a hoof system. If one actually knows what that means, little else matters in the long term. If one needs to be informed about the ultimate ramifications of deer migrations using their hooves, no amount of information and enlightenment will likely matter much.

A global meltdown is beyond what most can begin to fathom. The deer aint' what everyone thinks it is. Substantially speaking, deer doesn't exist.

lololol....

A fractional reserve means there's no true standard (precious metals) to issue currency at face values. Money is borrowed into existence and leveraged against good faith and other offsetting factors. There's much more, but your assenine mockery shows it would do little good to expound... just as I said.

There certainly isn't enough money to buy you a clue in regard to this matter. Proceed with your current understanding.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
I know what it means and your personal attacks at me over my humerous post reflect poorly back on you not me. I'm going to respond to your post though it's out of the boundaries of this thread because it's an interesting topic.

One of the offsetting factors you speak of is called collateral (of which there is a great many kinds) but typically what countries do when they get into serious debt trouble is increase the money supply to pay off creditors (usually by issuing and then buying their own bonds if they can't devalue their money like we did in 1933 during the Great Depression) and reduce spending (if possible).

If their backs are to the wall, they default. Russia defaulted all debt to all creditors in 1998 and had a very speedy recovery and economic boom afterwards posting gains and surpluses [having oil and no debt is a powerful combination] but nicked themselves in 2008-2009 with all the Georgian sword rattling and threats they engaged in (politics can get in the way of one's success) upsetting everyone including their customers.

Anyways, while there's always risk in every investment (whether valuation or debt), even if it's miniscule, default doesn't result in Dawn of the Dead sequels with people running around cannibalizing each other all over the country like the doomsday prophets promise to sell their books.

What really happens is very simple: nations restructure and start over without the debt.

For example, Latin American countries in crisis during the 1970's and 1980's changed their economies to that of producer exporters and paid it back right before having to default while Denmark did default in 1813 but changed their economy to a producer trading model and despite levying high taxes to support their very high standard of living, realized excellent economic growth and today have a mixed economy with a flexible labor force ranking 16th in the world in terms of GDP (PPP) per capita and 5th in nominal GDP per capita.

While there are consequences to defaulting (especially in the ability to borrow) and the news acts like its the end of the world everytime nations do it, the act is also an opportunity to restructure across-the-board and chart a course to success (admittedly something that should have happened before they ever got themselves in the position of default).

Success is the goal never failure and default. However, it's not the end of the world either friend as the doomsday authors would have you believe.

Now people always want to assert, at this point in the discussion, that we live in a new age where everything's totally interrelated and like a stack of dominos if a country defaults everything tumbles down into ruin and that's the end of the world.

But it's just not true. Trade, international financial markets, and globalism have been around for a long time and even our modern iteration has been around since the formation of national stock exchanges in the 16th and 17th centuries.

Today they comprise the International Monetary Fund and Bank for International Settlements, national agencies and government departments, central banks and finance ministries, private institutions acting on a global scale, regional institutions, the Eurozone, the emerging Chinazone, etc...

There's been cataclysmic legendary empire failures, sweeping plagues, global economic depressions, world wars, disasters, etc... throughout human history and will be again in the future.

Nations and blocks of nations will compete against each other for economic and political supremacy and there will be winners and losers. The biggest losers will have to restructure and start over as they have since time immemorial and as long as they don't nuke off the planet; there will always be the opportunity to start over just as before toward success in this world even if it investors who took a risk lost their investments on the way down.

And that really was my point. I could go on but I want to watch a movie. Peace.

A fractional reserve means there's no true standard (precious metals) to issue currency at face values. Money is borrowed into existence and leveraged against good faith and other offsetting factors. There's much more, but your assenine mockery shows it would do little good to expound... just as I said.

There certainly isn't enough money to buy you a clue in regard to this matter. Proceed with your current understanding.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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I agree. Not only is it completely off topic, it's an unwarranted personal attack.

Guys we really need to start reporting this stuff. Regardless if it happens to you or not, we need to start reporting bad behavior. If enough of us begins to complain, hopefully the site admin will do something.
hi crossfire.
you're brand new here aren't you?
or are you....
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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The entire Word Of Faith prosperity 'gospel' is a false gospel. Anyone to me, who teaches such things, is not of Christ. When you find out the flat out bizarre teachings of these men, it's amazing Christians fall for it. A great resource on the prosperity false gospel message is Christianity In Crisis by Hank Hanegraaff. It exposes the real teachings of all the major prosperity proponents. Hageee is not one of the top, actually, but he is covered as well.
posting an audio lecture tomorrow that covers the Word Faith movement as it developed out of the Holiness Movement.

its an awesome history lesson and quite an eye opener... hopefully more people can be delivered from it.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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I've seen Hageee on tv a few times. I don't believe tat I have heard him preach anything simular to what I would consider to be the prosperity gospel. Then again, I'm not a avid listener either.
ummm.....is there a mature Christian in the world not completely familiar with Hagee?
i wonder why we have an opinion on the thread at all then...an ecumenical agenda that is unbiblical?

unity over doctrine?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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I thought Strangelove's posts were brilliant. When the adulteress woman was brought before Jesus by the pharisees and people demanding justice, what did Jesus say to them? He said "He who is without sin cast the first stone".

Isn't this in essence what has happened here. Scott from erie brought forth Hagee for all of you to throw stones at. Strangelove, in essence, said perhaps you should remove the plank from your own eye before you try to remove the splinter from your brothers eye. This is what Jesus taught. You would call that tough love and say the bible doesn't teach that?? The bible is full of tough love. Look at Jonah, Job and the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ just for starters...

God Bless You
excellent post Grandpa.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Well I'll answer anyway.

We're on a forum. I dont even KNOW you man.

I love the Brethren. People who have proved to me that they have solid doctrine. I call them all sorts of cute names and blow 'em kisses,,,and PM with them and invite them to fellowship with me on another forum where.

This is what loving your enemy means:

(Matthew 5:44) But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Which I do.

I pray for them.

I do good to them by handing them sound doctrine and TRUTH.

And if any happen to CURSE me, you will see me turn the other cheek and bless them.
love you Doc
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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Just by sheer volume of material, I'd say Hagee's suits are much more expensive than priest vestments, regardless of material or workmanship quality. Maybe they were cut down from remnants of the Apostle Paul's trade.

Anyway... The passage from John's epistle goes on to say, "...even as your soul prospers.", which is the context conveniently left out by prosperity doctrine proof-texting.

I guess all those evangelized third-world converts were/are just left out of the "true" blessings of salvation.
so true PPS.
somehow the prosperity gospel doesn't work in 3rd world countries. "just claim the biggest hut and a bowl of soup!...if you don't get it, you HAVE NO FAITH"

which should tell folks its another gospel.

Galatians 1:9
As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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I'll just leave you with what Jesus said to a certain group of religious leaders who liked their fancy clothing too. I report. You decide.






Matthew 23.

5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.
8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.
and that's the way it is
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
A fractional reserve means there's no true standard (precious metals) to issue currency at face values. Money is borrowed into existence and leveraged against good faith and other offsetting factors. There's much more, but your assenine mockery shows it would do little good to expound... just as I said.

There certainly isn't enough money to buy you a clue in regard to this matter. Proceed with your current understanding.
zechariah 5..slavery for the world.
love you PPS
 
Feb 23, 2011
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I know what it means and your personal attacks at me over my humerous post reflect poorly back on you not me. I'm going to respond to your post though it's out of the boundaries of this thread because it's an interesting topic.

One of the offsetting factors you speak of is called collateral (of which there is a great many kinds) but typically what countries do when they get into serious debt trouble is increase the money supply to pay off creditors (usually by issuing and then buying their own bonds if they can't devalue their money like we did in 1933 during the Great Depression) and reduce spending (if possible).

If their backs are to the wall, they default. Russia defaulted all debt to all creditors in 1998 and had a very speedy recovery and economic boom afterwards posting gains and surpluses [having oil and no debt is a powerful combination] but nicked themselves in 2008-2009 with all the Georgian sword rattling and threats they engaged in (politics can get in the way of one's success) upsetting everyone including their customers.

Anyways, while there's always risk in every investment (whether valuation or debt), even if it's miniscule, default doesn't result in Dawn of the Dead sequels with people running around cannibalizing each other all over the country like the doomsday prophets promise to sell their books.

What really happens is very simple: nations restructure and start over without the debt.

For example, Latin American countries in crisis during the 1970's and 1980's changed their economies to that of producer exporters and paid it back right before having to default while Denmark did default in 1813 but changed their economy to a producer trading model and despite levying high taxes to support their very high standard of living, realized excellent economic growth and today have a mixed economy with a flexible labor force ranking 16th in the world in terms of GDP (PPP) per capita and 5th in nominal GDP per capita.

While there are consequences to defaulting (especially in the ability to borrow) and the news acts like its the end of the world everytime nations do it, the act is also an opportunity to restructure across-the-board and chart a course to success (admittedly something that should have happened before they ever got themselves in the position of default).

Success is the goal never failure and default. However, it's not the end of the world either friend as the doomsday authors would have you believe.

Now people always want to assert, at this point in the discussion, that we live in a new age where everything's totally interrelated and like a stack of dominos if a country defaults everything tumbles down into ruin and that's the end of the world.

But it's just not true. Trade, international financial markets, and globalism have been around for a long time and even our modern iteration has been around since the formation of national stock exchanges in the 16th and 17th centuries.

Today they comprise the International Monetary Fund and Bank for International Settlements, national agencies and government departments, central banks and finance ministries, private institutions acting on a global scale, regional institutions, the Eurozone, the emerging Chinazone, etc...

There's been cataclysmic legendary empire failures, sweeping plagues, global economic depressions, world wars, disasters, etc... throughout human history and will be again in the future.

Nations and blocks of nations will compete against each other for economic and political supremacy and there will be winners and losers. The biggest losers will have to restructure and start over as they have since time immemorial and as long as they don't nuke off the planet; there will always be the opportunity to start over just as before toward success in this world even if it investors who took a risk lost their investments on the way down.

And that really was my point. I could go on but I want to watch a movie. Peace.

Excellent. You're certainly not ignorant, then. I misunderstood your humor, so please forgive my ad hominem attack.

There is, however, one area you've left out regarding assets, and likely are unaware of. It was a nice sidebar, though. Back to Hagee and all the rest.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
No worries. Thank you. Back to the rest... :)

Excellent. You're certainly not ignorant, then. I misunderstood your humor, so please forgive my ad hominem attack.

There is, however, one area you've left out regarding assets, and likely are unaware of. It was a nice sidebar, though. Back to Hagee and all the rest.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
If their backs are to the wall, they default. Russia defaulted all debt to all creditors in 1998 and had a very speedy recovery and economic boom afterwards posting gains and surpluses [having oil and no debt is a powerful combination] but nicked themselves in 2008-2009 with all the Georgian sword rattling and threats they engaged in (politics can get in the way of one's success) upsetting everyone including their customers.
hi AoK...
good post.

[side issue, no need to reply on this thread - kinda leads back into the whole "conspiracy" thing (which is biblical btw: of course there's a global conspiracy - satan and fallen man against God, and the saints...Rev 13)

Russia didn't "nick" herself.
the Georgian sword rattling was made IN AMERICA. Wall Street.

the folks at the Trilateral & CFR are busy doing SOMETHING....i wonder what:D?

Zbigniew Brzezinski

Zbigniew Brzezinski - International Crisis Group


The Choice: Global Domination or Global Leadership; also author of The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and its Geostrategic Imperatives; the best-selling The Grand Failure: The Birth and Death of Communism in the 20th Century, as well as of Out of Control: Global Turmoil on the Eve of the 21st Century; Game Plan: How to Conduct the U.S.-Soviet Contest; Power and Principle: Memoirs of the National Security Adviser, 1977-1981; The Fragile Blosson: Crisis and Change in Japan; Between two Ages: America’s Role in the Technetronic Era; The Soviet Bloc: Unity and Conflict;


dontcha love the Orwellian "working to prevent conflict worldwide?"

ttyl.....zone
~

1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows