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Yes I will, I will boast on my Lord forever. How He saved me, cleansed me, and kept me. Jesus is awesome!!!!!!
My garment clean and white, the righteousness of the saints.
Revelation 19
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Jesus is returning for a perfected, equally yoked Bride. Will we make ourselves ready?
My garment clean and white, the righteousness of the saints.
Revelation 19
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Jesus is returning for a perfected, equally yoked Bride. Will we make ourselves ready?
oh 4runner.
if only you knew that God will not give His Glory to another.
most assuredly to a mere man.
your Rev 19 passage in context is about the Second Advent, and is juxtaposed to the beast and the war against the Lamb and the saints. it fully explains the fine, clean linen, and the righteousness of the saints my dear.....but you do not believe how God saves.
well, it seems you just hate the fact that this is imputed righteousness.
this is the Lord's Righteousness wherewith He purchased His beloved. and that all these many years, as an High Priest forever Has been making intercession for His people.
do you know what He does as High Priest? and why this is needed?
The church appeared; not in the gay, gaudy dress of the mother of harlots, but in fine linen, clean and white. In the robes of Christ's righteousness, imputed for justification, and imparted for sanctification. The promises of the gospel, the true sayings of God, opened, applied, and sealed by the Spirit of God, in holy ordinances, are the marriage-feast.
if you saw early in john's vision, as Jesus took the scroll upon His Ascension, you might understand the difference between Him and you.
Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.
truthfully 4runner.
with all your fasting and all your religion.
what are you worthy of?
what have you done?
what do you deserve?
if only you knew that God will not give His Glory to another.
most assuredly to a mere man.
your Rev 19 passage in context is about the Second Advent, and is juxtaposed to the beast and the war against the Lamb and the saints. it fully explains the fine, clean linen, and the righteousness of the saints my dear.....but you do not believe how God saves.
well, it seems you just hate the fact that this is imputed righteousness.
this is the Lord's Righteousness wherewith He purchased His beloved. and that all these many years, as an High Priest forever Has been making intercession for His people.
do you know what He does as High Priest? and why this is needed?
The church appeared; not in the gay, gaudy dress of the mother of harlots, but in fine linen, clean and white. In the robes of Christ's righteousness, imputed for justification, and imparted for sanctification. The promises of the gospel, the true sayings of God, opened, applied, and sealed by the Spirit of God, in holy ordinances, are the marriage-feast.
if you saw early in john's vision, as Jesus took the scroll upon His Ascension, you might understand the difference between Him and you.
Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.
truthfully 4runner.
with all your fasting and all your religion.
what are you worthy of?
what have you done?
what do you deserve?
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E
No it is fact. All believers are sinful. The old nature was not removed. The flesh is still strong at times. and people do wrong when they do make mistakes.
Whats wrong. You got caught in a little problem and can't find a way out??
Why did you not stick to the point?
There are not accidental sins. sins done in ignorance (meaning you did not know they were sins) are about the only accidental sins I can think of. yet even they will be held accountable. That why you grow in Christ and study so you leanr what is sin and what is not.
But to say "Oops I did not mean that" is a copout!
Whats wrong. You got caught in a little problem and can't find a way out??
Why did you not stick to the point?
There are not accidental sins. sins done in ignorance (meaning you did not know they were sins) are about the only accidental sins I can think of. yet even they will be held accountable. That why you grow in Christ and study so you leanr what is sin and what is not.
But to say "Oops I did not mean that" is a copout!
hi EG
man, that sinless perfectionism really does a number on a man's sinful mind, ya?
i suppose this is always worth a reminder for us low-seat Romans 8'ers
here's some gear for anybody wants to give this wall of text a shot (if ya haven't already done it)
Sproul on Perfectionism:
An ancient heresy of the distinction between two types of Christians, carnal and Spirit-filled, is the heresy of perfectionism. Perfectionism teaches that there is a class of Christians who achieve moral perfection in this life. To be sure, credit is given to the Holy Spirit as the agent who brings total victory over sin to the Christian. But there is a kind of elitism in perfectionism, a feeling that those who have achieved perfection are somehow greater than other Christians. The “perfect” ones do not officially—take credit for their state, but smugness and pride have a way of creeping in.
The peril of perfectionism is that it seriously distorts the human mind. Imagine the contortions through which we must put ourselves to delude us into thinking that we have in fact achieved a state of sinlessness.
Inevitably the error of perfectionism breeds one, or usually two, deadly delusions. To convince ourselves that we have achieved sinlessness, we must either suffer from a radical overestimation of our moral performance or we must seriously underestimate the requirements of God’s law. The irony of perfectionism is this: Though it seeks to distance itself from antinomianism, it relentlessly and inevitably comes full circle to the same error.
To believe that we are sinless we must annul the standards of God’s Law. We must reduce the level of divine righteousness to the level of our own performance. We must lie to ourselves both about the Law of God and about our own obedience. To do that requires that we quench the Spirit when He seeks to convict us of sin. Persons who do that are not so much Spirit-filled as they are Spirit-quenchers.
One of the true marks of our ongoing sanctification is the growing awareness of how far short we fall of reaching perfection. Perfectionism is really antiperfectionism in disguise. If we think we are becoming perfect, then we are far from becoming perfect.
I explained to the young man that it is exegetically impossible to dismiss Romans 7 as the expression of Paul’s former life. We examined the passage closely and the man finally agreed that indeed Paul was writing in the present tense. His next response was, “Well, maybe Paul Was speaking of his present experience, but he just hadn’t received the second blessing yet.”
I had a difficult time concealing my astonishment at this spiritual arrogance. I asked him pointedly, “You mean that You, at age nineteen, after one year of Christian faith, have achieved a higher level of obedience to God than the apostle Paul enjoyed when he was writing the Epistle to the Romans?”
To my everlasting shock the young man replied without flinching, “Yes!” Such is the extent to which persons will delude themselves into thinking that they have achieved sinlessness.
I spoke once with a woman who claimed the same “second blessing” of perfectionism who qualified her claim a bit. She said that she was fully sanctified into holiness so that she never committed any willful sins. But she acknowledged that occasionally she still committed sins, though never willfully. Her present sins were unwillful.
What in the world is an unwillful sin? All sin involves the exercise of the will. If an action happens apart from the will it is not a moral action. The involuntary beating of my heart is not a moral action. All sin is willful. Indeed, the corrupt inclination of the will is of the very essence of sin. There is no sin without the willing of sin. The woman was excusing her own sin by denying that she had willed to commit the sin. The sin just sort of “happened.” It was the oldest self-justification known to man: “I didn’t mean to do it!”
In one strand of the Wesleyan tradition there is another type of qualified perfectionism.
Here the achievement of perfection is limited to a perfected love. We may continue to struggle with certain moral weaknesses, but at least we can receive the blessing of a perfected love. But think on this a moment. If we received the blessing of a love that was absolutely perfect, how then would we ever commit any kind of sin? If I ever loved God perfectly, I would will only obedience to Him. How could a creature who loved God perfectly ever sin against Him at all?
Someone might answer: “We could still sin against Him in ignorance.” But the perfect love with which we are called to love God is a perfect love of our minds as well as our hearts. If we perfectly loved God with all of our minds, from whence could this ignorance flow? One who loves God perfectly with the mind is perfectly diligent in studying and mastering the Word of God. The perfectly loving mind perceives correctly the light into our paths. A perfectly loving mind doesn’t make errors in understanding Scripture.
But could we not still make mistakes because our minds are less than perfect? I ask why our minds are less than perfect. It is not because we lack brains or the faculty of thinking. Our thinking is clouded because our hearts are clouded. Take away the cloud from our hearts and our minds are illumined by the clear light of God.
A perfect love would yield perfect obedience. The only perfected love this world has ever seen was the love of Christ, who exhibited perfect obedience. Jesus loved the Father perfectly. He sinned not at all, either willfully or in ignorance.
The Heresy of Perfectionism by R.C. Sproul | Ligonier Ministries Blog
man, that sinless perfectionism really does a number on a man's sinful mind, ya?
i suppose this is always worth a reminder for us low-seat Romans 8'ers
here's some gear for anybody wants to give this wall of text a shot (if ya haven't already done it)
Sproul on Perfectionism:
An ancient heresy of the distinction between two types of Christians, carnal and Spirit-filled, is the heresy of perfectionism. Perfectionism teaches that there is a class of Christians who achieve moral perfection in this life. To be sure, credit is given to the Holy Spirit as the agent who brings total victory over sin to the Christian. But there is a kind of elitism in perfectionism, a feeling that those who have achieved perfection are somehow greater than other Christians. The “perfect” ones do not officially—take credit for their state, but smugness and pride have a way of creeping in.
The peril of perfectionism is that it seriously distorts the human mind. Imagine the contortions through which we must put ourselves to delude us into thinking that we have in fact achieved a state of sinlessness.
Inevitably the error of perfectionism breeds one, or usually two, deadly delusions. To convince ourselves that we have achieved sinlessness, we must either suffer from a radical overestimation of our moral performance or we must seriously underestimate the requirements of God’s law. The irony of perfectionism is this: Though it seeks to distance itself from antinomianism, it relentlessly and inevitably comes full circle to the same error.
To believe that we are sinless we must annul the standards of God’s Law. We must reduce the level of divine righteousness to the level of our own performance. We must lie to ourselves both about the Law of God and about our own obedience. To do that requires that we quench the Spirit when He seeks to convict us of sin. Persons who do that are not so much Spirit-filled as they are Spirit-quenchers.
One of the true marks of our ongoing sanctification is the growing awareness of how far short we fall of reaching perfection. Perfectionism is really antiperfectionism in disguise. If we think we are becoming perfect, then we are far from becoming perfect.
If we think we are becoming perfect, then we are far from becoming perfect.
I once encountered a young man who had been a Christian for about a year. He boldly declared to me that he had received the “second blessing” and was now enjoying a life of victory, a life of sinless perfection. I immediately turned his attention to Paul’s teaching on Romans 7. Romans 7 is the biblical death blow to every doctrine of perfectionism. My young friend quickly replied with the classic agreement of the perfectionist heresy, namely, that in Romans 7 Paul is describing his former unconverted state.
I explained to the young man that it is exegetically impossible to dismiss Romans 7 as the expression of Paul’s former life. We examined the passage closely and the man finally agreed that indeed Paul was writing in the present tense. His next response was, “Well, maybe Paul Was speaking of his present experience, but he just hadn’t received the second blessing yet.”
I had a difficult time concealing my astonishment at this spiritual arrogance. I asked him pointedly, “You mean that You, at age nineteen, after one year of Christian faith, have achieved a higher level of obedience to God than the apostle Paul enjoyed when he was writing the Epistle to the Romans?”
To my everlasting shock the young man replied without flinching, “Yes!” Such is the extent to which persons will delude themselves into thinking that they have achieved sinlessness.
I spoke once with a woman who claimed the same “second blessing” of perfectionism who qualified her claim a bit. She said that she was fully sanctified into holiness so that she never committed any willful sins. But she acknowledged that occasionally she still committed sins, though never willfully. Her present sins were unwillful.
What in the world is an unwillful sin? All sin involves the exercise of the will. If an action happens apart from the will it is not a moral action. The involuntary beating of my heart is not a moral action. All sin is willful. Indeed, the corrupt inclination of the will is of the very essence of sin. There is no sin without the willing of sin. The woman was excusing her own sin by denying that she had willed to commit the sin. The sin just sort of “happened.” It was the oldest self-justification known to man: “I didn’t mean to do it!”
In one strand of the Wesleyan tradition there is another type of qualified perfectionism.
Here the achievement of perfection is limited to a perfected love. We may continue to struggle with certain moral weaknesses, but at least we can receive the blessing of a perfected love. But think on this a moment. If we received the blessing of a love that was absolutely perfect, how then would we ever commit any kind of sin? If I ever loved God perfectly, I would will only obedience to Him. How could a creature who loved God perfectly ever sin against Him at all?
Someone might answer: “We could still sin against Him in ignorance.” But the perfect love with which we are called to love God is a perfect love of our minds as well as our hearts. If we perfectly loved God with all of our minds, from whence could this ignorance flow? One who loves God perfectly with the mind is perfectly diligent in studying and mastering the Word of God. The perfectly loving mind perceives correctly the light into our paths. A perfectly loving mind doesn’t make errors in understanding Scripture.
But could we not still make mistakes because our minds are less than perfect? I ask why our minds are less than perfect. It is not because we lack brains or the faculty of thinking. Our thinking is clouded because our hearts are clouded. Take away the cloud from our hearts and our minds are illumined by the clear light of God.
A perfect love would yield perfect obedience. The only perfected love this world has ever seen was the love of Christ, who exhibited perfect obedience. Jesus loved the Father perfectly. He sinned not at all, either willfully or in ignorance.
The Heresy of Perfectionism by R.C. Sproul | Ligonier Ministries Blog
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I know you wanted 4runner to answer this Zone, buuuuuut...
I know that you were asking 4runner, but I know the answer! and I can't contain it!
What am I worthy of? Well, considering our sinful nature, absolutely nothing.
What have I done? I have sinned.
What do I deserve? To be condemned.
BUT there is a positive side to these answers!! Guess who came and saved us from condemnation and from our sins becoming totally fatal to us? JESUS!! And He has given us mercy and He gave us everything we didn't deserve...eternal life, grace, mercy....and much much more.
I know that you were asking 4runner, but I know the answer! and I can't contain it!
What am I worthy of? Well, considering our sinful nature, absolutely nothing.
What have I done? I have sinned.
What do I deserve? To be condemned.
BUT there is a positive side to these answers!! Guess who came and saved us from condemnation and from our sins becoming totally fatal to us? JESUS!!
And He has given us mercy and He gave us everything we didn't deserve...eternal life, grace, mercy....and much much more.
Y
It's interesting to me that you asked whether a person could define the difference. Everything Jesus said, every thing He did including; the direction He took, north, south, east and west, Upward, downward, crossing over from one side to the other, using creation in a specific form.... and all this has hidden in it the difference between sin and accidental sin. In His walk, Jesus reveals that law also judges accidental sin in a way I could not see without Him.
Yes I fast because i am in love with the one who calls me to fasting...Jesus Christ, but once again I have no religionThe blood of Christ, or at least He thought so. You are worthy of it too.l
I have made Jesus Lord of my life.
I deserve to be called son, king, priest, beloved of my God, or at least that is what God tells me in His word. Is God a liar?... I thought you were sola scriptura, you should know this.
So then explain this statement?
You make a distinction between SINS and MISTAKES.
I asked you what MISTAKES means:
And you said:
So stop lying and pretending you didnt make a distinction....and tell us what the difference is?
Sinless and perfect are not the same thing according to you. Sinless means you dont sin and PERFECT means not even any ACCIDENTAL SINS.
So WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?
Check.
You make a distinction between SINS and MISTAKES.
I asked you what MISTAKES means:
And you said:
So stop lying and pretending you didnt make a distinction....and tell us what the difference is?
Sinless and perfect are not the same thing according to you. Sinless means you dont sin and PERFECT means not even any ACCIDENTAL SINS.
So WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?
Check.
Re: I know you wanted 4runner to answer this Zone, buuuuuut...
God Bless you lil one.
Perfectionists must reduce God's Holy law down to the level of human performance. Shame on them.
I know that you were asking 4runner, but I know the answer! and I can't contain it!
What am I worthy of? Well, considering our sinful nature, absolutely nothing.
What have I done? I have sinned.
What do I deserve? To be condemned.
BUT there is a positive side to these answers!! Guess who came and saved us from condemnation and from our sins becoming totally fatal to us? JESUS!! And He has given us mercy and He gave us everything we didn't deserve...eternal life, grace, mercy....and much much more.
What am I worthy of? Well, considering our sinful nature, absolutely nothing.
What have I done? I have sinned.
What do I deserve? To be condemned.
BUT there is a positive side to these answers!! Guess who came and saved us from condemnation and from our sins becoming totally fatal to us? JESUS!!
And He has given us mercy and He gave us everything we didn't deserve...eternal life, grace, mercy....and much much more.
Perfectionists must reduce God's Holy law down to the level of human performance. Shame on them.
Once agaon you are attempting to be deceptive. Mistake in this answer has nothing to do with sin. It is about mis-spelling a word...is that sin, going the wrong direction in your car....is that sin. Forgeting something at the store...is that sin. I wasnt even talking about sin at all.
The fact is living a sinless life doesnt make you perfect, it makes you sinless. God has called us to live sinlessly, and has empowered us to do so. No amount of question and twisting others words around to deceive, and muddy the truth will change that fact
The fact is living a sinless life doesnt make you perfect, it makes you sinless. God has called us to live sinlessly, and has empowered us to do so. No amount of question and twisting others words around to deceive, and muddy the truth will change that fact