Concerning the gift of tongues

CS1 · Friday at 10:57 AM

That is the hate of those who think we are okay with the foolishness of those who abuse the gifts of the Holy Spirit. They don't know how many we have corrected, and in America, if you ask them to leave, they can go to a different fellowship or start their own and continue the foolishness. Paul addressed that very thing and even mentioned them by name in the epistles.

Dino246 · Friday at 11:08 AM

DJT_47 said:

Your last sentence makes no sense. I don’t know what you’re trying to say. However, your premise is incorrect; I am certainly not “hung up” on gifts. Rather, you appear to be grasping at straws, changing the subject in order to avoid admitting your error of reasoning.

wolfwint · Friday at 11:11 AM

CS1 said:

OK, again. The verses 2: 23- 27 describe the situation and the circumstances of the nation of Israel.

✝ Joel 2:23
"Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month."

✝ Joel 2:24
"And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil."

✝ Joel 2:25
"And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpillar, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you."

✝ Joel 2:26
"And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.

✝ Joel 2:27
"And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed."

When this happend, then follow what we read in the Verses 2:28-31

✝ Joel 2:28
"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: "

✝ Joel 2:29
"And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit."

✝ Joel 2:30
"And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke."

✝ Joel 2:31
"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD.

So according the text, Israel had this situation not expierienced till today.

So, is vers 2,28 not fully fullfilled!!
If you claim different then you have to take the vers out of the context!!
And please consider that the Adressat of this text is the nation of Israel and not the whole world.

Blain · Friday at 11:19 AM

GWH said:

A sin? no but Paul addresses following him here 1 corinthians 1 12-17
10I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, a in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas b ”; still another, “I follow Christ.”

13Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16(Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Blain · Friday at 11:31 AM

CS1 said:

When a person is coernered they attack he has lost this debate and knows it so he attacks him and trustandobey both have lost this debate they know it or rather they should know it but I think their ego and pride will not allow them to see their error or that they have already lost this debate

CS1 · Friday at 11:45 AM

wolfwint said:

First off, you must look at all the scriptures that speak on this, which you were shown before. Again, I will do it for you.

Peter said in Ats chapter 2:15-19

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The pouring out of the Holy Spirit happened this day in Acts 2. Fullfilled what was said by Joel.

Verse 19 to 20 are events that hAVE not happen yet speaking of the Great day of the Lord which is said in Daniel chapyer12 and in the book of Revelation chapter 20.

This event was also including thr gentiles which Jesus Himself Affrimed in ACTS 10:9-16

9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”

14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”

15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has Cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.

aS YOU READON WE SEE THIS WAS ABOUT THE GENTILES WHO RECIEVED salvation and the empowering of the Holy Spirit Just as Peter did and the Aposltes as stated in Acts 10:

Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

You're mistaken and have allegorized the prophet Joel text in chapter 2.

Lamar · Friday at 12:27 PM

Blain said:

It is rather common for someone to proclaim that they "have won the debate" when wishing to not continue a subject.

No one has "won the debate".

If you no longer wish to continue this exchange simply stop responding but please do not simply claim victory.

I could easily do the same.

Lamar · Friday at 12:52 PM

ocean said:

People are well aware that not just churches with the label "Pentecostal" speak in tongues, we do not need you or CS1 to point this out.

Regardless, those who claim to speak in supernatural tongues are of the same ilk.

Lafftur · Friday at 12:56 PM

GWH said:

Exactly! It would look like Christ. Isn’t that God’s plan for believers…

No need for anyone to be surprised and put up walls when a believer is looking like Christ with the Holy Spirit operating and flowing through them with God’s love, truth and God’s foolishness confounding the wise.

It’s not so much atheists but rather it would be the Pharisees and religious leaders with legalistic mindsets that would hate it and speak evil of it…

because why aren’t they doing it… their resistance to it exposes them as frauds, the very thing they accuse believers of being is what they are.

TMS · Friday at 1:00 PM

When you are a good bible student and read verses in context, also study all the verses you will come to the truth.

If you let people twist the verses to suit their explanations you will accept a lie.

There are some really plain truths about tougnes

.. some are so worried about getting the gift of the Holy Spirit, and speaking in tougnes that the things that really matter become unvalued.
For example ... what is more important?
Receiving the Holy Spirit into your heart to help you surrender bad habits and sin. Or receiving the Spirit so you can speak in tougnes? ????

What is tougnes... ?

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Tougnes was given for the reason above...
PRACTICAL reasons.

Tougnes are always related to languages in the bible.

The Spirit was given so they had
a supernatural ability to speak foreign languages they had not formerly studied or known for the purpose of spreading the Gospel.

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; ... they shall speak with new tongues" (Mark 16:17).

There are only three actual examples of speaking in tongues recorded in the Bible (Acts chapters 2, 10, and 19). If we look at these three cases, we should find a clearer picture of this controversial gift.

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

From this example it should be very clear that the gift of tongues was given to communicate the gospel in different existing languages of the world.

Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
The gift was given to Gentiles for the practical purpose of magnifying God.
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Paul was the most educated and widely traveled of the apostles, and he spoke many languages (1 Corinthians 14:18). When the Holy Spirit came upon these 12 Ephesian men, Paul recognized that they were prophesying, or preaching, in new languages. Most likely they in the most practical language for spreading the Gospel.

Notice that Acts chapters 4 is simular to chap 2 but the gift of tougnes is not given.
The need is not present in chapter 4.
Act 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

No language barriers ment no reason to give the gift of tougnes.

GWH · Friday at 1:00 PM

ocean said:

I think we should both follow Jesus as Lord and follow Paul as His primary apostle following Christ’s resurrection.

wolfwint · Friday at 1:35 PM

CS1 said:

First off, you must look at all the scriptures that speak on this, which you were shown before. Again, I will do it for you.

Peter said in Ats chapter 2:15-19

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The pouring out of the Holy Spirit happened this day in Acts 2. Fullfilled what was said by Joel.

Verse 19 to 20 are events that hAVE not happen yet speaking of the Great day of the Lord which is said in Daniel chapyer12 and in the book of Revelation chapter 20.

This event was also including thr gentiles which Jesus Himself Affrimed in ACTS 10:9-16

9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”

14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”

15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has Cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.

aS YOU READON WE SEE THIS WAS ABOUT THE GENTILES WHO RECIEVED salvation and the empowering of the Holy Spirit Just as Peter did and the Aposltes as stated in Acts 10:

Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

You're mistaken and have allegorized the prophet Joel text in chapter 2.

I have Allegorized nothing! 😀

Lafftur · Friday at 1:35 PM

GWH said:

No, just follow Jesus Christ. No one else is The Way, The Truth, and The Life… only Jesus Christ.

@Blain is correct.

wolfwint · Friday at 2:31 PM

CS1 said:

First off, you must look at all the scriptures that speak on this, which you were shown before. Again, I will do it for you.

Peter said in Ats chapter 2:15-19

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The pouring out of the Holy Spirit happened this day in Acts 2. Fullfilled what was said by Joel.

Verse 19 to 20 are events that hAVE not happen yet speaking of the Great day of the Lord which is said in Daniel chapyer12 and in the book of Revelation chapter 20.

This event was also including thr gentiles which Jesus Himself Affrimed in ACTS 10:9-16

9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”

14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”

15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has Cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.

aS YOU READON WE SEE THIS WAS ABOUT THE GENTILES WHO RECIEVED salvation and the empowering of the Holy Spirit Just as Peter did and the Aposltes as stated in Acts 10:

Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

You're mistaken and have allegorized the prophet Joel text in chapter 2.

You asked me for scripture, I gave you.
But this is not enough for you, because its supports not your view.
Thats then your problem!

GWH · Friday at 2:47 PM

ocean said:

Thanks. As you might realize, I choose both-and when possible, as in 1Cor.11:1.

GWH · Friday at 3:00 PM

Blain said:

Yes, denominationalism is symptomatic of problematic spiritual disunity, which is why I frequently remind folks to agree regarding the elaboration of the essential Gospel kerygma.

So, again, following/worshipping Jesus as Lord does not conflict with appreciating Paul
as the main reason Christianity became known to us in CC, both because of his part in writing the NT
(MK, LK, HB and his epistles) and because of the numerous churches he planted.

GWH · Friday at 3:04 PM

Lafftur said:

Actually, I am amazed that so many folks think Paul's writings were not inspired by Jesus and thus should not be followed.
I thought only Jude and James were considered problematic by some.

Dino246 · Friday at 3:23 PM

TMS said:

They aren't "related to" languages; they are languages.

TMS said:

That's not what Scripture says. Verses 45-46 explain quite adequately: "The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God."
The gift was given to demonstrate to Peter that the same Holy Spirit Who filled him and the other disciples filled the gentiles, clearly showing God's acceptance of them. This is confirmed in 11:15-18:

15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”
18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”

TMS said:

That's not what 1 Corinthians 14:18 says. Given the context, Paul is clearly talking about the supernatural gift, not the learned ability. he said, "I speak in tongues more than all of you", not, "I speak in more different languages than any of you."

TMS said:

"Most likely"? No. Scripture doesn't explain the reason here, and speculation is not evidence. It also doesn't say anything about "preaching".

TMS said:

Interesting theory, but it's not supported by Scripture. 1 Corinthians 14:2 states, "For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit." It doesn't say that where there are no language barriers, there is no reason for the gift.

Lamar · Friday at 3:34 PM

CS1 said:

It is you who keeps attacking the word of God. We will keep posting 1st Corinthians 13:8 until you can show us a verse that states it has not ceased. We will keep posting 1st Corinthians 12:7-11 until you can show a verse that proves your claims are akin to what is described in the Bible.

Until you can produce these verses you are but a Simon Magus.

How can you be so arrogant to imply that your claims are anything like what happen in the 1st century church.

The early church "turned the world upside down". The Pentecostals and their ilk bring shame and doubt on the word of God with their baseless assertions.

So show your verses or fold.

Dino246 · Friday at 3:40 PM

Lamar said:

Your position is based on a logical fallacy. It is your claim that the manifestations seen today are not the same thing as in the early Church. It's your responsibility to prove your case, which you have completely failed to do. Don't try to reverse the burden of proof. Calling Blain "arrogant" is just a personal attack, not a rational argument.

Your line of argumentation is no better than that of ignorant Moslems, who demand a verse where Jesus says, "I am God" and refuse to consider the abundant evidence supporting the belief that He is.

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