Ham saw his father naked, why Noah cursed Canaan (Son of Ham) instead of Ham?

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Jul 3, 2015
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#81
Also is Noah not in the genetic line of the sons of God, but your are right the daughters in law ore his wife could.
Some understand the "sons of God" to refer to the descendants of Seth, a line that includes Noah.

:)
 
Feb 15, 2014
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#83
Jasher 7:24-29 And the garments of skin which God made for Adam and his wife, when they went out of the garden, were given to Cush. For after the death of Adam and his wife, the garments were given to Enoch, the son of Jared, and when Enoch was taken up to God, he gave them to Methuselah, his son. And at the death of Methuselah, Noah took them and brought them to the ark, and they were with him until he went out of the ark. And in their going out, Ham stole those garments from Noah his father, and he took them and hid them from his brothers.
What is Jasher?
 

MrE

Active member
Jan 26, 2023
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#86
It's a Hebrew word, that simply means "upright" or the just.

So then Jasher is not a name of a person, but a description. It's the book of the Just, or the book of the Upright, if you prefer.
 

MrE

Active member
Jan 26, 2023
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#87
So, Noah family wearing the whole genetic pool of mankind. All races came out of them.
giants and pygmaen, different skin colours,
all in the genetic pool of this 8 peoples.
While true in a sense, that's not quite complete. The genetic pool that repopulated the earth after the flood came from the collective dna from those 4 couples. Each individual that comprised those four couples carry the dna from all their predecessors, just as your dna is a collection of genetic material from all of your predecessors. So it's not simply 8 people, but all of the dna from all the ancestors of 8 people.
 
Jul 28, 2017
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#88
Some understand the "sons of God" to refer to the descendants of Seth, a line that includes Noah.
Some understand the sons of God to refer unto the "males" that were made in the beginning, an God called their name Adam in the day they were created. Gen 5:2

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them ,Gen 6:1

When did men began to multiply upon the face of the earth, dah from the beginning,

P.S. Lev 18:7 isn't the scripture that applies to Ham's act. It wasn't his mother.

The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. Lev 18:7

Since you can't uncover you father's nakedness by uncovering the nakedness of your mother, you either uncover the nakedness of your father or uncover you mother's nakedness. You can only uncover you father's nakedness by uncovering his nakedness or uncovering the nakednerss of his wife, which is not your mother. See Lev 18:8

The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness. Lev 18:8

Who is Jasher? Some say that is the name of the Spirit of truth.
 
Jun 30, 2015
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#89
The book of the upright (the book of Jasher) is mentioned in scripture-- in Joshua and 2 Samuel, which means that it precedes those books. It would have been a part of the reference library for later writers. So when those later writers (like Moses) record their accounts
Are you saying Moses was later than Samuel? You might want to check that.

The support for the premise above is also written in the book of Jasher, that tells us concerning the theft of Noah's precious garments, that no one knew who took them. Noah had no ah dea. From his subsequent disdain for Canaan-- we might conclude that Noah thought Canaan was the culprit.
With respect to you, that's pretty speculative.
 
#90
The books that are considered to be "cannonical" differentiate. This is why the Ethiopian cannon includes more writings than Biblio. Europe did not always have the books together as one "authoritative" book. They started off with a few separated writings because that's how the scrolls were kept. The 1611 King James Biblio even had more books than it has now and mentions other writings they don't include. The writings could even have been copied more than some considered "cannonical". There are explicit prophecies in of Jesus in Enoch, The Testament of 12 Patriarchs, Eden aka The Books of Adam and Eve. I've heard that Enoch may have been one of the most quoted books by Jesus.

Jasher 56:9 Only teach thy sons the bow and all the weapons of war, in order that they may fight the battles of their brother who will rule over his enemies.
2 Samuel 1:18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)

Jasher 89:8 The sun and moon stood still in heaven, and thou didst stand in thy wrath against our oppressors and didst command thy judgments over them.
Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

Jasher 2:4 And the sons of men went and they served other gods, and they forgot the LORD who had created them in the earth
Jasher 2:6 And the LORD caused the waters of the river Gihon to overwhelm them, and he destroyed them, and he destroyed the third part of the earth, the sons of men did not turn from their evil ways, and their hands were yet extended to do evil in the sight of the LORD.
Jasher 2:11-12 And Cainan became wise and had knowledge and skill in all wisdom, and he led the sons of men to wisdom and knowledge; And Cainan knew by his wisdom that God would destroy the sons of men for having sinned upon earth, and that the LORD would in the latter days bring upon them the waters of the flood.
Jasher 2:16-17 And these are the names of the children of Cainan; the name of the first born Mahlallel, the second Enan, and the third Mered, and their sisters were Adah and Zillah. And Lamech, the son of Methusael, became related to Cainan by marriage, and he took his two daughters for his wives
Jasher 9:7 And the king and all his servants, and Terah with all his household were then the first of those that served gods of wood and stone.
Joshua 24:2 And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.

Genesis 4:13-14 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that someone that findeth me shall slay me.
Jasher 2:26-31 And Lamech was old , and had weakened eyesight, and Tubal Cain, his son, was leading him and one day Lamech went into the field and Tubal Cain his son was with him, and whilst they were walking in the field, Cain the son of Adam advanced towards them; for Lamech was very old and could not see much, and Tubal Cain his son was very young. And Tubal Cain told his father to draw his bow, and with the arrows he smote Cain, who was yet far off, and he slew him, for he appeared to them to be an animal. And the LORD requited Cain's evil according to his wickedness, which he had done to his brother Abel, according to the word of the LORD which he had spoken. And Lamech was very much grieved at having done this, and in clapping his hands together he struck his son and caused his death. And the wives of Lamech heard what Lamech had done, and they sought to kill him. And they separated from him, and would not hearken to him.
Jasher 2:35-36 And he said, Hear my voice, attend to my words, for now you have imagined and said that I slew a man with my wounds, and a child with my stripes for their having done no violence, but surely know that I am old and that my eyes are heavy through age, and I did this thing unknowingly. And they listened to him, and they returned to him with the advice of their father Adam.
Eden 13:2-3 and Lamech said to them, "As for me, I cannot feed those cattle alone, lest one rob me of some of them, or kill me for the sake of them." For among the children of Cain, there was much robbery, murder, and sin. Then Lamech pitied him, and he said, "Truly, he when alone, might be overpowered by the men of this place."
Eden 13:5-13 Meanwhile Cain, ever since God had cast him off, and had cursed him with trembling and terror, could neither settle nor find rest in any one place; but wandered from place to place. In his wanderings he came to Lamech's wives, and asked them about him. They said to him, "He is in the field with the cattle." Then Cain went to look for him; and as he came into the field, the young shepherd heard the noise he made, and the cattle herding together from before him. Then said he to Lamech, "O my lord, is that a wild beast or a robber?" And Lamech said to him, "Make me understand which way he looks, when he comes up." Then Lamech bent his bow, placed an arrow on it, and fitted a stone in the sling, and when Cain came out from the open country, the shepherd said to Lamech, "Shoot, behold, he is coming." Then Lamech shot at Cain with his arrow and hit him in his side. And Lamech struck him with a stone from his sling, that fell upon his face, and knocked out both his eyes; then Cain fell at once and died. Then Lamech and the young shepherd came up to him, and found him lying on the ground. And the young shepherd said to him, "It is Cain our grandfather, whom thou hast killed, O my lord!" Then was Lamech sorry for it, and from the bitterness of his regret, he clapped his hands together, and struck with his flat palm the head of the youth, who fell as if dead; but Lamech thought it was a feint; so he took up a stone and smote him, and smashed his head until he died.
Jasher 5:19-21 Lamech the father of Noah, died. All the days of Lamech were 777 years. And all the sons of men who knew the LORD, died in that year before the LORD brought evil (the flood) upon them; for the LORD willed them to die, so as not to behold the evil that God would bring upon their brothers and relatives, as he had so declared to do.
 
Jul 28, 2017
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#91
Jasher 89:8 The sun and moon stood still in heaven, and thou didst stand in thy wrath against our oppressors and didst command thy judgments over them.
Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
The sun doesn't move from the center of the expanse space. :rolleyes:
 

MrE

Active member
Jan 26, 2023
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#92
Are you saying Moses was later than Samuel? You might want to check that.
No-- I'm saying Moses, and Joshua and Samuel, were later than Jasher.

With respect to you, that's pretty speculative.
I appreciate that-- and that's why I didn't state it as any kind of fact that can be asserted, rather I said "we might conclude..."

But perhaps you have a better idea? I'm listening.