"Spiritual" vs. "Religious"

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MissCris

Guest
#1
#1
I was talking with my younger brother today (he's 23) about the church we grew up in, and our own different reasons for switching churches, or in his case, not going to church at all anymore.

He said, "I don't like religion. Religion messes everything up, it's not what I think God meant for men to do; create so many different, disagreeing religions. I can go sit up on a mountain somewhere and worship God in my own way and feel closer to him than by sitting on a pew in any of the churches I've tried. I'm more spiritual than religious, I guess."

I agree with him on that; with all the different denominations, the bickering over doctrines, the gossip and coldness within some churches, and the unmoving, repetitive sermons being preached every Sunday...I would rather find a quiet place to sit and read my Bible and talk to God than subject myself to more of the same old, same old Religion.

Is this wrong? I don't feel it is, but I'm curious what others think about it.

Does anyone else feel they are more 'spiritual than religious'?
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#2
#2
It's a lie of the devil he uses to separate believers from assembling together as per scripture. The church suffers when a person becomes deceived like this and so does the person (though they are deceived and don't realize it). Often, though not always, it precedes entering into sinful activites such as dope smoking, drinking, and fornication.
 
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MissCris

Guest
#3
#3
I hadn't thought of it that way; I can see how that could be true, although I hope I have better sense than to take up drugs.
 
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guilbautedsookie

Guest
#4
#4
Well we do need a church to really bolster the fire in us. The fellowship with other believers. Sometimes that lie can lead to (gulp) false prophets (I have a phobia of them)
 
leelee

leelee

Senior Member
#5
Sep 5, 2011
1,258
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#5
MissCris said:
I was talking with my younger brother today (he's 23) about the church we grew up in, and our own different reasons for switching churches, or in his case, not going to church at all anymore.

He said, "I don't like religion. Religion messes everything up, it's not what I think God meant for men to do; create so many different, disagreeing religions. I can go sit up on a mountain somewhere and worship God in my own way and feel closer to him than by sitting on a pew in any of the churches I've tried. I'm more spiritual than religious, I guess."

I agree with him on that; with all the different denominations, the bickering over doctrines, the gossip and coldness within some churches, and the unmoving, repetitive sermons being preached every Sunday...I would rather find a quiet place to sit and read my Bible and talk to God than subject myself to more of the same old, same old Religion.

Is this wrong? I don't feel it is, but I'm curious what others think about it.

Does anyone else feel they are more 'spiritual than religious'?
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I think that the church helps you to stay strong in your faith as there are others there who feel similar/the same as you but I do think you are equally capable of worshiping outdoors (or indoors) by yourself. At my church we don't talk about our religion, we talk about our relationship with Jesus and in that way I do agree with your brother.
 
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guilbautedsookie

Guest
#6
#6
@leelee At ours too... They encourage a strong, deep relationship with God. I think religious is something technical... spiritual is more of the emotional just my two cents in it.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#7
#7
Fortunately, for us, God loves us very very much and goes to length extending grace, grace, and more grace while working to free us from the devil's lies and deliver us back into a right state with ourself, His church, His people, and Himself. :)

MissCris said:
I hadn't thought of it that way; I can see how that could be true, although I hope I have better sense than to take up drugs.
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MissCris

Guest
#8
#8
It's frustrating to keep ending up in these dead churches where the people avoid you at all costs, the preacher won't look you in the eye when he says hello, the sermon is less about Jesus or God and more about 'being happy'. With all of that and worse going on, I feel like I'm better off removing myself from the drama and distractions.

Maybe I just need to continue my quest to find a church that really lights a fire under my...well, you know :D
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#9
#9
YES! Line up every church in your area from Vineyards to mainstream evangelical churches and a good sample of everything in between and make the rounds over the next 90 days. You can go to two meetings a week. That's 24 visits. When you wnat it enough to seek it like that, you will find it.


MissCris said:
It's frustrating to keep ending up in these dead churches where the people avoid you at all costs, the preacher won't look you in the eye when he says hello, the sermon is less about Jesus or God and more about 'being happy'. With all of that and worse going on, I feel like I'm better off removing myself from the drama and distractions.

Maybe I just need to continue my quest to find a church that really lights a fire under my...well, you know :D
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MissCris

Guest
#10
#10
I think there's less than half that many left in this area for me to try out. Maybe this Sunday God will point me in the right direction and save me some gas money :D
 
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Ugly

Guest
#11
#11
I find it funny that Jesus fought against religious people, not by running and hiding but by interjecting himself in them to bring about change, yet his followers always find excuses to run from religious people and skip out on church because of 'hypocrisy' etc.. Maybe if all these people who refuse to go to church went to church and came together to set standards within the church our churches could change and improve.
 
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rainacorn

Guest
#12
#12
In my church, they like to say "Christianity isn't a religion, it's a relationship."

I thought that was kinda silly when I first started going there. Afterall, organized worship times make it seem awful religiony.

However, that really is their outlook on things, so even though there are organized worship times and class times and all of that, they stay pretty far away from 'religious ritual.' I feel like I've been really fortunate to stumble into a church that doesn't see itself as a typical church and more of just a hub for a bunch of Christians. Nobody works at the church full time and I'm not sure anybody who works there is actually paid. Pretty sure it's all volunteer.

When people say they are 'spiritual and not religious' what that usually means to me is that they believe in God and maybe even Jesus, but they're operating more on gut instinct than the Word of God. Maybe that's not the situation for you guys, but that's what I typically find. It's dangerous territory. One of the advantages of attending a regular Bible study is constantly keeping yourself in check and making sure you're reading things right. It is easy, when left to your own devices, to start seeing things that aren't there and skipping over things you wish you weren't in there. Not out of some kind of malice, but just because our 'guts' cannot be trusted. It is part of our fallen nature to only see what we want to see, so it's good to have a group to sorta bounce things off of. Also, structure is nice. It forces you to read things you probably wouldn't have been drawn to on your own.

Anyway, good luck to you
 
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guilbautedsookie

Guest
#13
#13
rainacorn said:
One of the advantages of attending a regular Bible study is constantly keeping yourself in check and making sure you're reading things right. It is easy, when left to your own devices, to start seeing things that aren't there and skipping over things you wish you weren't in there. Not out of some kind of malice, but just because our 'guts' cannot be trusted. It is part of our fallen nature to only see what we want to see, so it's good to have a group to sorta bounce things off of. Also, structure is nice. It forces you to read things you probably wouldn't have been drawn to on your own.
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Hi just wanna ask about this... I do have a Bible study guide from my church... would that do? I am inviting my cousin to hold a Bible study at home.

Yes I heard of people reading off the Bible on their own and veering into unwanted territory and being a One2One mentor I am worried that when I read my Bible and share with them the words I have read and how it applies it might mislead them.

:D
 
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MissCris

Guest
#14
#14
Ugly said:
I find it funny that Jesus fought against religious people, not by running and hiding but by interjecting himself in them to bring about change, yet his followers always find excuses to run from religious people and skip out on church because of 'hypocrisy' etc.. Maybe if all these people who refuse to go to church went to church and came together to set standards within the church our churches could change and improve.
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I hadn't thought of it THAT way, either. That's a good point, and encourages me even more to not quit going to church.

I think one of the main reasons I'm even having this struggle with finding a church that I like is because the one my brother and I grew up in had a major, major issue when we were both involved in the youth group:

The youth minister at the time was really good with the kids. He knew how to get us really pumped up about God, he took time to visit individually with each kid and help them with whatever problems they were having, he baptized me and counseled me when I was thinking of doing something stupid. He was a friend to everyone, and a father figure for kids like me and my brother whose own dads had disappeared.

Well, after he'd been with us a couple of years, one of the girls, about 15 years old I think, told her father (a deacon) that the youth minister had sexually assaulted her. I didn't believe it at the time because this same girl was constantly basically throwing herself at him, always making sure she rode up front in the van when we traveled, sitting next to him during church and youth group, flirting with him openly all the time; he eventually started avoiding her, it was so bad. I thought that she had made up the story of him assaulting her because she'd had her feelings hurt when he rejected her. That's what the church members thought, too, so it blew over.

A year later, he was again accused of sexual assault on that girl's friend. I don't know what proof there was, but there must have been something, because the youth minister was arrested and spent a night in jail before his wife bailed him out. The same night he got home, he locked himself in his garage with the car running. His wife and kids found him dead (and, incidentally, 2 of my family members who were law enforcement officers at the time were called; so unfortunately, I was able to get a very graphic description of the scene).

The church pretty much fell apart after that. People who'd been there for years went to different churches, the preacher and his family moved away, new members were hard to come by because of what they'd heard about our church.

That's when my brother quit going to church at all, and I started my search.

I think I'm afraid that if I get too comfortable in any place, something like that will happen again. I don't trust anyone in a leadership position at any church anymore, because in the back of my mind, I'm always wondering what horrible things they're capable of. I had NO idea that the youth minister was ever messing with any of the girls, NO idea he would kill himself. And I was pretty sure I KNEW the guy. If someone I was so close to (or so I thought) could have those kinds of skeletons in their closet...well, you can probably see why I don't trust people so easily now.

Anyway, all that to say this:

I haven't lost my faith in God, I've lost my faith in the church. I admit that it's entirely possible that I now LOOK for faults among any church I go to, in the hopes that I will find some excuse not to attend anymore, because I can't shake that fear that I and my family may experience something like that again.

I'm none too sure that's even reasonable, but I feel safer when I worship alone or just with my husband.
 
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MissCris

Guest
#15
#15
rainacorn said:
When people say they are 'spiritual and not religious' what that usually means to me is that they believe in God and maybe even Jesus, but they're operating more on gut instinct than the Word of God. Maybe that's not the situation for you guys, but that's what I typically find. It's dangerous territory. One of the advantages of attending a regular Bible study is constantly keeping yourself in check and making sure you're reading things right. It is easy, when left to your own devices, to start seeing things that aren't there and skipping over things you wish you weren't in there. Not out of some kind of malice, but just because our 'guts' cannot be trusted. It is part of our fallen nature to only see what we want to see, so it's good to have a group to sorta bounce things off of. Also, structure is nice. It forces you to read things you probably wouldn't have been drawn to on your own.

Anyway, good luck to you
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Funny you mention that, because just yesterday I was talking with an aunt and uncle who also say they are spiritual and not religious, and I've noticed my whole life that they don't really have much to do with most of the Bible; they have a few verses that they believe whole-heartedly, and those are the few they quote frequently. But when it comes to Jesus dying on the cross, or Jesus even being who he said he is....they're very skeptical on those points.

So I totally see what you're saying. I'd like to be able to say 100% that I would never be that way, but you just never know where you could stray off to without the accountability provided by others.

This is yet MORE encouragement to find a church home :)
 
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rainacorn

Guest
#16
#16
guilbautedsookie said:
Hi just wanna ask about this... I do have a Bible study guide from my church... would that do? I am inviting my cousin to hold a Bible study at home.

Yes I heard of people reading off the Bible on their own and veering into unwanted territory and being a One2One mentor I am worried that when I read my Bible and share with them the words I have read and how it applies it might mislead them.

:D
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I'm not some kind of expert or anything. If it works for you, then good!

I think it's good to have a guide or a leader through Bible study, but really isn't everyone there to learn? You can be 80 years old and still read new things in the Word. It's kind of amazing like that.

Pray before you do a Bible study with someone and ask the holy spirit to guide you to say the right things in the right way. Also, leave yourself open to learning something, too!

We use guide books in my class just so everyone knows what we'll be talking about the next week. We get so excited we end up reading ahead and doing a little outside preparation before we go into class together. What's great about that is everyone is then bringing their own insights and independent study into the group. Maybe one person focused more on historical context while someone else cross referenced like crazy to find all of the verses that support what we're reading that day and can add new insight. And maybe someone else felt really convicted by something we're going to be reading and they want to share a personal testimony.

That's why it's awesome to do this in groups.

You and I are not the same person. We come from different backgrounds, we have different histories, experiences and perspectives. But the Bible is tailor made for both of us. How can that be? That's what you discover by studying with a group.
 
leelee

leelee

Senior Member
#17
Sep 5, 2011
1,258
8
38
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#17
MissCris said:
Anyway, all that to say this:

I haven't lost my faith in God, I've lost my faith in the church. I admit that it's entirely possible that I now LOOK for faults among any church I go to, in the hopes that I will find some excuse not to attend anymore, because I can't shake that fear that I and my family may experience something like that again.

I'm none too sure that's even reasonable, but I feel safer when I worship alone or just with my husband.
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That is not a nice story, I find it even worse as my own church has a thriving youth ministry and I myself am a Leader in house, I lead the younger kids sunday services.
If you look for the bad you will find it. People run churches, people are not perfect. I think it is awful that something like that was going on in your church but it is not the norm and although its not toally impossible it is incredably unlikely to even happen around you again.
I think when looking for a church you need to see it from a people point of view, don't expect it to be perfect but at the same time don't make excuses. There are things about my own church I would do differently and there are things that frustrate me but the good outweighs the bad every time. good luck.
 
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guilbautedsookie

Guest
#18
#18
rainacorn said:
I'm not some kind of expert or anything. If it works for you, then good!

I think it's good to have a guide or a leader through Bible study, but really isn't everyone there to learn? You can be 80 years old and still read new things in the Word. It's kind of amazing like that.

Pray before you do a Bible study with someone and ask the holy spirit to guide you to say the right things in the right way. Also, leave yourself open to learning something, too!

We use guide books in my class just so everyone knows what we'll be talking about the next week. We get so excited we end up reading ahead and doing a little outside preparation before we go into class together. What's great about that is everyone is then bringing their own insights and independent study into the group. Maybe one person focused more on historical context while someone else cross referenced like crazy to find all of the verses that support what we're reading that day and can add new insight. And maybe someone else felt really convicted by something we're going to be reading and they want to share a personal testimony.

That's why it's awesome to do this in groups.

You and I are not the same person. We come from different backgrounds, we have different histories, experiences and perspectives. But the Bible is tailor made for both of us. How can that be? That's what you discover by studying with a group.
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WOW thank you for that advice :D Yes, whenever I do my One2One's I always pray and check my heart if I'm doing it for God. And yes, it's the spirit that speaks :D
 
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rainacorn

Guest
#19
#19
MissCris said:
Funny you mention that, because just yesterday I was talking with an aunt and uncle who also say they are spiritual and not religious, and I've noticed my whole life that they don't really have much to do with most of the Bible; they have a few verses that they believe whole-heartedly, and those are the few they quote frequently. But when it comes to Jesus dying on the cross, or Jesus even being who he said he is....they're very skeptical on those points.

So I totally see what you're saying. I'd like to be able to say 100% that I would never be that way, but you just never know where you could stray off to without the accountability provided by others.

This is yet MORE encouragement to find a church home :)
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hahaha oh man, before I found a church home, I was thiiiis close to joining the Jesus Love Cult.

You know the type- the people who think Jesus was some kind of hippie that just wanted everyone to chill out and give each other back rubs or something.

He says it himself- he did not come to bring peace BUT A SWORD. He's no wimp. He's no wuss. He's no hippie.

He was a table-flipping demon buster. He got in people's faces. He ruffled feathers. People HATED HIS GUTS. He says they should. He says they should hate us too. He says we should hate the world.

But...but... LOVE, right? Peace, man.

It is a difficult thing to reconcile without some help and guidance. I ended up just skipping the parts where Jesus is kicking butt and getting angry with people. I glossed over him getting mad at his own followers. I just skipped the bits where God pours out His wrath and says hardcore things like 'Don't even bother praying for these people...they're toast.' lol

So what's left then? Who was I even worshiping?

I mean it wasn't intentional. Seeing God as one-dimensional was just easier and I didn't have anyone around me challenging me to see things differently. I like nice God. I like happy hippie Jesus, so that's the stuff I focused on. Buddy Christ. Jesus in blue jeans. lol

Looking back I can see how totally misguided I was, but it's like teaching yourself how to play the guitar- you can only learn so much from a terrible teacher. hahaha
 
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MissCris

Guest
#20
#20
rainacorn said:
hahaha oh man, before I found a church home, I was thiiiis close to joining the Jesus Love Cult.

You know the type- the people who think Jesus was some kind of hippie that just wanted everyone to chill out and give each other back rubs or something.

He says it himself- he did not come to bring peace BUT A SWORD. He's no wimp. He's no wuss. He's no hippie.

He was a table-flipping demon buster. He got in people's faces. He ruffled feathers. People HATED HIS GUTS. He says they should. He says they should hate us too. He says we should hate the world.

But...but... LOVE, right? Peace, man.

It is a difficult thing to reconcile without some help and guidance. I ended up just skipping the parts where Jesus is kicking butt and getting angry with people. I glossed over him getting mad at his own followers. I just skipped the bits where God pours out His wrath and says hardcore things like 'Don't even bother praying for these people...they're toast.' lol

So what's left then? Who was I even worshiping?

I mean it wasn't intentional. Seeing God as one-dimensional was just easier and I didn't have anyone around me challenging me to see things differently. I like nice God. I like happy hippie Jesus, so that's the stuff I focused on. Buddy Christ. Jesus in blue jeans. lol

Looking back I can see how totally misguided I was, but it's like teaching yourself how to play the guitar- you can only learn so much from a terrible teacher. hahaha
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LOL I love the way you phrase things, "Jesus in blue jeans". Of course, a person can wear jeans and carry a sword ;)

Speaking of reconciling God's love and God's wrath, I've been reading a lot of Ted Dekker books lately, and he writes about that a lot. Well, not specifically that, but he gets the message across in his stories that God loves us so much that sometimes he allows horrible things to happen to us in order to win our souls for Christ.

Anyway, that's another issue I'm having with finding a church- so many preachers will tell you all about God's love for us, they occasionally say something about one day being judged by Him, but they steer clear of preaching about God's anger, or going to hell, or anything that would make God sound less cuddly and grandfatherly. I'm not looking for a sermon to give me the warm-fuzzies. I want to be pushed outside my box of thinking, and it's hard to find churches that do that.

The more I post on here, and the more posts I read from others, the more I'm realizing I have about a zillion excuses for my church-hopping. This has all been extremely helpful :)
 
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