Here are the differences between the last two prophetic comings of Christ (the Rapture vs Second Coming)

[GaryA]

You show no signs of having mastered the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine.

The only way anyone can ever "master" the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine requires that they first fall for it hook, line, and sinker.

For example, the 7 year Tribulation is just a way of speaking of the 7 year covenant that the Antichrist signs with Israel which starts the Tribulation.

Neither of the two assumptions that your statement makes are supported by scripture.

There is no 7-year 'prophetic' End Times period.

There will be no 7-year treaty between any antichrist and Israel (as being in accordance with bible prophecy).

Personally, I believe that the Tribulation starts real close to the beginning of the Trib.

Wow - how did you ever come up with this conclusion?!?

(just teasing you - I am guessing that you made a typo of some sort)

The main reason some bible students say there is a long (3.5 years) wait between the Rapture and the Trib. is because there seems to be some time needed (7 years) for Israel to burn all the enemies' weapons (which takes a total of 7 years to burn all the weapons), since the Antichrist runs all the Jews away from Jerusalem (at the midpoint of the trib) the Rapture would occur at least 3.5 years before the burning of all the weapons.

Without looking it up specifically right now, I am pretty sure I remember correctly that the weapon burning of which you speak occurs at a point in time after the Millennium begins.

 

[GaryA]

The person in Dan. 9 who made/cut a covenant for 7 years with the Jews seems to me to be Jesus, who directed the New covenant to the Jews until the stoning of Stephen, when the Christians fled Jerusalem and Judaea and took the gospel to Samaria and then further afield. Which scriptures are you relying on for a seven year covenant cut by an antichrist?

No one makes a covenant with anyone in Daniel 9; however, [Jesus] confirms [the already existing covenant] 'for one week'.

That 'week' ended in 34 A.D. - when the [continuous/unbroken] 70 weeks of Daniel also ended. It is fulfilled. It is past history.

This is the proper interpretation of Daniel 9.

Those who believe there is a 'covenant'/'treaty' between an antichrist figure and Israel represented in Daniel 9 are woefully misinterpreting scripture.

 

[GaryA]

Beginning with Stephen, untold millions of believers have died just because they were believers.
During the early church history, this continued. Believers are still dying violent deaths every day, just because they are believers.
These believers died because of their refusal to comprise, because they followed our Lord's instructions.
They suffered much persecution, tribulation, and often death.
They made disciple, and taught them. They met together to teach and study and learn.
Most who say they are believers today would be lying if they said they were doing as our forefathers did.
Yet these same believers believe that will never happen to them, Jesus would never let His church go through tribulation.
They seem to think they are better than their forefathers, more holy, more worthy.
What I see is a lot of old fashion pride on full display with these people.
Not a one of us is worthy to escape the coming tribulation.
None will unless we die before it begins.

When folks finally obtain a proper understanding of some things like the fifth seal description and the Two Witnesses account - [virtually] all questions are answered and all doubt is removed - pride takes a fall - and, by/through humility, understanding becomes exceedingly clear.

 

[GaryA]

Revelation states that all who are are not in the first resurrection will suffer the second death.
The second death is the lake of fire.
All whose name is not in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire.
Those who are beheaded, do not take the mark or worship the beast or his image will be in the first resurrection.
Even a very simple mind can understand the first resurrection comes after the great tribulation.

For the most part, we are in agreement on this matter; however, I must correct you on the first line statement of your post. (for your edification)

The Bible says that those who are part of the first resurrection will not suffer the second death ('on such the second death hath no power'). This does not [automatically] mean that any who are not part of the first resurrection will [definitely] suffer the second death. The "exact reverse" of the Bible statement cannot be assumed - because, it is not included in the statement. The effect of the statement is only for those who are in the first resurrection - with no regard to those who are not in the first resurrection. Your first line statement can/does not automatically follow from the statement made in scripture.

Your "logic" is in error on this one specific particular statement.

In no way does it take anything away from your overall point.

 

[GaryA]

I can hear the people shouting to Jesus, Why did you make me go through tribulation?

I can hear Jesus then responding with: For the same reason I allowed those in the Dark Ages to go through what they did...

 

[GaryA]

There is not a postribber on the planet watching and preparing for Jesus.

I get really tired of people suggesting that post-trib folks are not watching for Jesus. This is totally absurd and ridiculous!

We are watching for Jesus. We simply know that there are some things that must occur first before he arrives/comes.

 

[GaryA]

We littereally own end times.

One day you are going to come to realize just how off-the-mark this statement really is - and that - there is nothing but pride and arrogance behind it.

 

[GaryA]

Why is this post empty? Who wrote the post that you are accusing of all these false beliefs?

This 'post'? What 'post'? Do you mean 'thread'?

Who is this addressed to? Who is 'you'?

 

[EddieM]

This 'post'? What 'post'? Do you mean 'thread'?

Who is this addressed to? Who is 'you'?

I don't know the difference between post and thread. I had to click on "Post reply" to reply to the earlier posts. I don't know what thread is and don't understand what a post is.

Who is this addressed to? I haven't the foggiest notion. More and more I am seeing posts without citing the words and author of a previous post. It seems so intuitive that I can find a reason to not respond to a post using the post the author is responding to.

 

[EddieM]

The only way anyone can ever "master" the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine requires that they first fall for it hook, line, and sinker.


Neither of the two assumptions that your statement makes are supported by scripture.

There is no 7-year 'prophetic' End Times period.

There will be no 7-year treaty between any antichrist and Israel (as being in accordance with bible prophecy).


Wow - how did you ever come up with this conclusion?!?

(just teasing you - I am guessing that you made a typo of some sort)


Without looking it up specifically right now, I am pretty sure I remember correctly that the weapon burning of which you speak occurs at a point in time after the Millennium begins.

All you did was to make dogmatic statements without any support by explaining what you believe and why my conclusions are wrong. Would you find it odd if I responded to the Post-trib position by saying, "No, your position has no biblical support." That is an admission of not understanding the doctrine with such a statement. If you want to be a serious bible student, you need to be reading both sides of the doctrine. I don't see where you actually understand the Pre-Trib position.

 

[EddieM]

Precious friend, sure wasn't for me; took me 18 months to humbly/prayerfully/carefully
study All Of The Related Scriptures!:

The Great GRACE Departure! {aka rapture}

Outline!:

"Do all things Decently And In Order!" (1 Corinthians 14:40 AV)

(1A) PEACE With God! Receiving The Holy Spirit For understanding?
(1B) 1A e-x-p-a-n-d-e-d for Clarification?

(2a) Which Bible: AV, or, any "newer modern version" will suffice?
(2b) AV And God's Bible study Rules!

(3a) God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided! - Brief Introduction...
(3b) Three "Ages" Rightly Divided! = God's Timelines?

(4) Which "Gospel" Makes Way For Which "Gospel"?
(5) GREAT Tribulation? or, tribulations/GREAT GRACE Departure!?

(6) Pre-TOJT GRACE Departure Expectations!?
(7) God's Heavenly UPlook For His Body!?

(8) Watching, Waiting, And Looking: For WHOM! or, For "signs"?
(9) God's Removal Of His Body Of CHRIST!:

(10) "Day Of CHRIST { Light }!" / Rightly Divided from {RDf}:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \ "The Day Of The LORD [ Darkness ]!"?

(11) Confidence in death/resurrection, Or, in living/glorification!?
(12) CHRIST Will Come "Without Warning!"?

(13) The Two "Trumps" Of God, In His "Age Of GRACE"?
(14) Meeting Him "In The Air" Up To Heaven! vs U-turn (theology?)

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Back down To earth?

(15) Preparation For [ Israel's tribulation? OR: ]

The Judgment Seat Of Christ!? (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV)

(16) Post Departure Deception Question?
+
Part 17 Conclusion:

God's Great GRACE Departure!

Amen.

Precious sister @Sanders seems to be the only one interested in any humble discussion.
Oh well...

Grace, I am sorry but I don't understand what you are trying to convey with your post above. I can't tell clearly what your position is? Are you a post-trib or pre-trib? How did you understand my little Oh, I wish it were that simple

While I am not in agreement with every single line of your post - I applaud you for having the aim of trying to answer the important questions regarding what the Bible does-and-does-not say.

I suggest that the time factor of your question is roughly the amount of time it takes for the Wrath of God to be "poured out" upon the earth - maybe just a bit longer...

If you are serious about studying the various views of the Rapture and the Tribulation, and lets assume you are a serious student, you would not be asking such questions as from a babe in Christ. Your questions are something I would expect in a Bible 101 class. Let's get to the bottom of this. First, I didn't give passage references in my list because these concepts are very elementary. Sorry to vent, but I wish I could get involved in a good discussion on the Rapture. Give me a passage that refutes pre-trib/post-trib according to your position.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

All you did was to make dogmatic statements without any support by explaining what you believe and why my conclusions are wrong. Would you find it odd if I responded to the Post-trib position by saying, "No, your position has no biblical support." That is an admission of not understanding the doctrine with such a statement. If you want to be a serious bible student, you need to be reading both sides of the doctrine. I don't see where you actually understand the Pre-Trib position.

No need to understand the pre-trib position, folks! Make sure you love truth and Lord Jesus will guide you to the two verses that clearly and simply says He will pick us up AFTER the great tribulation.

You might get scared, like I did, when this truth hits you but turn to God and He will prepare and make you brave and strong to face the great tribulation. You might be destined to die, but "absent from the body, present with the Lord!" (2 Corinthians 5:3, KJV) The pre-trib false teaching will not prepare you at all for this.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Grace, I am sorry but I don't understand what you are trying to convey with your post above. I can't tell clearly what your position is? Are you a post-trib or pre-trib? How did you understand my little Oh, I wish it were that simple

Precious @EddieM, appreciate your kind and humble questions. Forgive me if there seems to be confusion.

I was simply trying to convey that this type of end-times eschatology study is by no means
anywhere near "very simple". Some want me to "give them" one or two select verses
comprehensively "proving" God's Sound Bible Doctrine Of "pre-trib" rapture.

Of course that is impossible in light of God's Bible study Rules, where we need to examine
"ALL Related Scriptures" (see Rule # 5). We find that God's Great GRACE Departure has over
100 Plain and Clear Passages to be humbly/prayerfully/Carefully examined for Evidence.

= not simple, eh?

Hope this helps, and Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified
In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided. *

Amen.

* Basic Distinctions (14 +) Of Prophecy vs Mystery!
+
[ Update/Additions #’s: (19) (20) (21) (22) (23) (24) ]

 

[Psalm1]

I get really tired of people suggesting that post-trib folks are not watching for Jesus. This is totally absurd and ridiculous!

We are watching for Jesus. We simply know that there are some things that must occur first before he arrives/comes.

No you are not.
If you are postrib the trib is blocking/ preventing His return ( only in your mind), and that PREVENTS His soon coming.

Stop pretending you are scriptural.

ALL RAPTURE VERSES are Normal life, everyday life, planning for the future, buying and selling, and Commerce.
So that and itself completely wipes out your entire belief system

 

[Psalm1]

The only way anyone can ever "master" the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine requires that they first fall for it hook, line, and sinker.


Neither of the two assumptions that your statement makes are supported by scripture.

There is no 7-year 'prophetic' End Times period.

There will be no 7-year treaty between any antichrist and Israel (as being in accordance with bible prophecy).


Wow - how did you ever come up with this conclusion?!?

(just teasing you - I am guessing that you made a typo of some sort)


Without looking it up specifically right now, I am pretty sure I remember correctly that the weapon burning of which you speak occurs at a point in time after the Millennium begins.

QUOTE
"The only way anyone can ever "master" the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine requires that they first fall for it hook, line, and sinker."

I am pretrib rapture adherent and can quite handily debate the subject with my Bible.

ALL POSTRIBBERS use extra biblical articles, and readily admit they got their doctrine from ancient men.

Your comment is true. You know little about our verses.
Little about the bible.

 

[GaryA]

I don't know the difference between post and thread. I had to click on "Post reply" to reply to the earlier posts. I don't know what thread is and don't understand what a post is.

A 'thread' is a linked-together collection of 'posts' based on a common "theme" which is the thread 'title'.

There are currently 175 posts in this thread. (before I submitted this post)

Sometimes, you will see someone mention the 'OP' - which usually refers to either the 'Original Post' (post #1) that started the thread or the 'Original Poster' - the person who started the thread with the 'Original Post'. Context determines which it is.

A 'forum' is a collection of threads based on a common theme - 'Bible Discussion Forum' in this case.

Who is this addressed to? I haven't the foggiest notion.

I was referring to who your post was addressed to. But - don't worry about it - I was just expressing my confusion over your post.

More and more I am seeing posts without citing the words and author of a previous post.

When that happens, the author of the post may be:

1) making a general comment with reference to the thread title or OP

2) making a comment with reference to the post immediately before it

3) simply being lazy... (It happens.)

- or, there could be other reasons...

Keep in mind that when one of your posts is quoted by someone else - it does not necessarily mean that it is a rebuttal of/to your post. They may be expanding or expounding with reference to what is written in your post. A quote of some post is simply a reference to what was said in that post. The intent of the post that quotes another post must be determined by the context of what is written in the post that quotes another post.

 

[GaryA]

All you did was to make dogmatic statements without any support by explaining what you believe and why my conclusions are wrong. Would you find it odd if I responded to the Post-trib position by saying, "No, your position has no biblical support." That is an admission of not understanding the doctrine with such a statement. If you want to be a serious bible student, you need to be reading both sides of the doctrine. I don't see where you actually understand the Pre-Trib position.

I grew up in church as a child being taught the pre-trib position. I understand it quite well. I know what pre-trib folks believe and why they believe it.

However, by the end of my teen years - by virtue of my own personal Bible study - I discovered and determined with absolute certainty that what I was taught was simply not biblical. A great deal of it is based on misinterpreted scripture - with Daniel 9:24-27 (KJV) being at the top of the list.

Please see:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html

My two statements are a "challenge" of sorts for pre-trib folks to consider. It makes no sense to ask post-trib folks to prove false what pre-trib folks have 'invented' or made up out of thin air. It is up to the pre-trib folks to prove such things as those addressed by my two statements.

It is not up to post-trib folks to prove these things are not in the Bible; rather, it is up to pre-trib folks to prove that they are in the Bible.

And, for some reason, pre-trib folks just don't seem to understand this.

 

[GaryA]

If you are serious about studying the various views of the Rapture and the Tribulation, and lets assume you are a serious student, you would not be asking such questions as from a babe in Christ. Your questions are something I would expect in a Bible 101 class.

What questions?

Except for post #168 - wherein, the questions were off-topic - I am not sure that I have asked any questions - at least, not for many posts...

Let's get to the bottom of this. First, I didn't give passage references in my list because these concepts are very elementary.

However, 'elementary' does not make them correct.

Sorry to vent, but I wish I could get involved in a good discussion on the Rapture. Give me a passage that refutes pre-trib/post-trib according to your position.

Others have posed such passages - have you been paying attention to what they put forth?

@Howdy is probably blue in the face by now...

If you are serious about studying what the Bible really actually says - a good starting point for you is to click the 'Bible Study' link in my signature and read/study each of the web pages listed there - separately then collectively.

 

[GaryA]

If you are postrib the trib is blocking/ preventing His return ( only in your mind), and that PREVENTS His soon coming.

Nothing is preventing His return - we simply do not believe that it is biblical to state that it is imminent.

Everything in its proper order...

 

[Psalm1]

Nothing is preventing His return - we simply do not believe that it is biblical to state that it is imminent.

Everything in its proper order...

If you are postrib then HE CAN NOT RETURN UNTIL........( FILL IN THE BLANK)

It would therefore be ridiculous to be looking for his coming.

You can not have it both ways.
In fact, we are mocked and ridiculed over that exact issue.